Episode 114

114: Dr. Damien Downing - Daylight Robbery: Lessons From Three Decades As A Circadian Practitioner

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"The electron transport chain, you know, the cytochromes in the mitochondrial wall, is less than perfect. So every, you know, few thousand times, whatever, it drops a free radical there instead of using it constructively," explains Dr. Damien Downing, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to illuminate the intricate dance between light, water, and our cellular health. As president of the British Society for Ecological Medicine and a pioneer in understanding the health impacts of our light environment, Dr. Downing shares insights from his decades-long career that challenge conventional wisdom about sunlight exposure and reveal the profound connections between our bodies and the fundamental forces of the universe.

In this captivating discussion, Dr. Downing delves into the concept of structured water and its crucial role in cellular function, explaining how different wavelengths of light interact with our bodies at the molecular level. He unveils the surprising links between sunlight exposure and cancer rates, and discusses how modern lifestyles have disrupted our natural circadian rhythms, leading to a host of health issues. From the glymphatic system's role in brain health to the potential of zeta potential in improving hydration, Dr. Downing offers a fresh perspective on how we can harness the power of light and water to optimize our health.

Tune in to today's episode of the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to discover why Dr. Downing believes we're "in touch with the fundamentals of the universe" and learn practical steps to align yourself with nature's rhythms for better health and wellbeing.

Key Takeaways

1. Prioritize getting natural sunlight exposure, especially in the morning. Try to spend at least 5 minutes outside looking up at the blue sky within the first hour of waking. This helps regulate your circadian rhythm and boosts melatonin production.

2. Be mindful of artificial light exposure, particularly in the evening. Avoid bright overhead LEDs and screen use before bed. Consider using blue light blocking glasses and dimmer, warmer lighting at night to support healthy melatonin production.

3. Stay well-hydrated with pure, filtered water. Add electrolytes to enhance the water's zeta potential, which helps keep red blood cells from clumping. This improves oxygen and nutrient delivery throughout the body.

4. Incorporate both infrared and UV light exposure into your routine. Infrared light helps build structured water in the body, while UV light enhances the depth of charge. Consider using an infrared sauna or spending time outdoors with some skin exposed.

5. Recognize that every step towards improving your light environment is beneficial. You don't need to achieve perfection - small changes like swapping out light bulbs or adding screen filters can make a difference. Focus on progress, not perfection.

Memorable Quotes

"The plot of many a thriller has hinged on the fact that the best place to hide something is where it is obvious. I think that applies to the sunlight thing. We never realized that we were systematically depriving ourselves of it."
"Structured water happens naturally just because it's in contact with a surface. All light encourages it to build up more layers, but infrared is best at doing it. The ultraviolet helps build up the depth of charge next to the cell, which keeps everything moving and flowing."
"We're in touch with the fundamentals of the universe. It's in the nature of things. All of this stuff is how the universe works - if we let it. We seem to do our best to prevent it."

Resources Mentioned

British Society for Ecological Medicine - https://bsem.org.uk/

Orthomolecular - https://orthomolecular.org/

Connect with Damien

Website - https://www.drdamiendowning.com

QBC Resources

To receive a FREE infographic of the Ideal Circadian Day & join our email list: https://www.quantumbiologycollective.com/qbc-newsletter-aqb

To find a practitioner who understands quantum biology: www.quantumbiologycollective.org

To see details about the Applied Quantum Certification: www.appliedquantumbiology.com

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Transcript
Meredith Oke:

Biology Collective podcast where we break down

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the practical applications of this emerging

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science, starting with healthy life habits and

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going wherever the quantum superhighway takes us.

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This is your host, executive and life coach

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Meredith Oak, with a quick reminder that podcasts

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are conversations, not consultations. But if

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you're looking for one of those, do check out our

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free practitioner

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directory@quantumbiologycollective.org My guest

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today wrote a book on the importance of sunlight

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to health called daylight robbery in 1988. Dr.

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Downing has been practicing ecological medicine

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ever since then, which is a systems approach to

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health that considers interactions between

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individuals and the environment and their health

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consequences. So ecological medicine is a term

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that is widely used in the United Kingdom, not so

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much in North America and other parts of the

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world. But I think it's a beautiful way to to

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explain natural health and a nice alternative to

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functional medicine, which has sort of become

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synonymous with just supplements. Dr. Downing is

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president of the British Society for Ecological

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Medicine and was for 20 years editor of the

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Journal of Nutritional and Environmental

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Medicine. He serves on the editorial board of the

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Ortho molecular news service. Dr. Downing and I

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had a lovely conversation where I was able to

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learn from his decades of wisdom working in

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alternative health and in natural health and as

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somebody who understood deeply and early the

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implications of our changing light environment

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and our changing EMF environment. So I hope you

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enjoy my chat with Dr. Downing. I certainly did.

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He is a fountain of knowledge that goes back many

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years and he is working on a new book and

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continues to be an active practitioner in London.

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So if you live in that area, do look him up. He's

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sees patience and continues to practice his

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wisdom to this very day. Enjoy. And before we get

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into it, please do consider your infrared light

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exposure this winter and really anytime in the

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summer months and in warm places, it's obviously

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easier to get it full body infrared light

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exposure when you're outside in the sunshine.

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However, if you're not able to be outside in the

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sunshine and also to help with detox, an infrared

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sauna is really my top recommendation for feeling

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good in the winter. It's something that I added

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to my routine a couple of years ago when I moved

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back to a cold place after living in places that

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weren't so cold. And I really, really noticed a

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huge difference in how I felt getting through the

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winter months, I should say, I'm sorry, enjoying

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and thriving through the winter months. I

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appreciate winter so much more now that I know

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how to properly take care of myself when it's

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cold and when we're in that time of year. And one

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of those things is making sure we get lots of

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infrared light, which you can get from light

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panels. And infrared saunas are especially good

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because you have the heat as well, which is a

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helpful detox. So I recommend if you need any of

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those things to visit boncharge.com bcharge.com

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they have a very nice little infrared sauna

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blanket that you can just cozy up under while you

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are, you know, watching a movie with your blue

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blockers on. Of course. All right, enjoy my

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conversation with Dr. Downing. He is a delightful

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British gentleman. Have fun. Bye. Dr. Damian

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Downing, welcome to the QVC podcast. Such a

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pleasure to have you.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Thank you. It's great to be here.

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So you work in what is called ecological

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medicine. Could you tell us a little bit about

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your long career in that field and how you define

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it? Because it's not a word that's used as

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commonly in North America.

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Dr. Damien Downing: No. Right. Well, it all started in, really in

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about 1979. That's before I came into the field.

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One of the founders was Professor Ronnie Finn,

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who was the guy that did the definitive paper in

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the Lancet Journal showing that food allergy was

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a real thing and that you could cut it out and so

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forth. And he and a few others, including Alan

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Grant, who did the paper that clearly showed that

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migraine could be caused by food intolerances.

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They set up a society. I've got the notes from

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the. The agenda from the. The original meeting

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there. And there's a meeting to consider setting

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up a society for clinical ecology is what they

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called it back then. And it's an 11 o'clock

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Sherry. It starts, and then at 12 o'clock they

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start talking, something like that. So those days

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are gone, including pretty much everybody who's

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there is now gone. But then in about 1983, we set

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up what was then called the British Society for

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Nutritional Medicine. And then it kind of added

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bits in and allergy came in and all sorts of

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other stuff came in. And eventually all those

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societies end up merging. And we called it

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ecological medicine, echoing what was said way

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back then. It. So ecological medicine is kind of

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a systems approach, is looking at the

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interactions between you and the environment. And

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obviously the, the whole sunlight factor, or you

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know, what John Ott called mal illumination is,

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is a key part of that. And my God, we didn't

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realize back then, didn't realize nearly as much

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as we do now because of all the evidence coming

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from photobiomodulation and so on and so forth,

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and our understanding of mitochondria it's mind

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blowing. It's really got so exciting these days.

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It really has. And it's interesting because, you

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know, along with the food, our light environment

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has got, you know, our, our food sources and food

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production have gone off the rails. And at the

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same time the light that we're surrounded by in

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our environment has become worse and worse. While

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in parallel, the research showing how important

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real food and natural light are is also mounting

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weight. Yeah, we seem to be in a state of

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complete imbalance there. What are your, what are

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your thoughts on how, how that happened? Because

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you wrote a book on the importance of sunlight to

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Health in 1988.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

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And so to, you know, as you, as you were saying

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about the foundation of the ecological field of

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medicine, this was, scientists and doctors were

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aware of the importance of our environment and

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yet somehow the innovation of the technology and

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the processing of our food just went on

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completely unchecked. Could you sort of speak to

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that a little bit?

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, it's always been, in all of this field,

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it's always been more of a patient driven

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progress than driven by doctors or even

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scientists know, and that the British Society of

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Dermatologists reviewed it and said it's a load

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of rubbish, basically. And the British Naturist

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Society, you know, people who like to be naked in

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the fresh air, they reviewed and said, oh, it was

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the most important medical book of the decade.

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So the dermatologist said your sunlight book was

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rubbish and the, the naturalists said it was

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brilliant. Yeah. Okay, that tracks right.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. And in America, of course, I mean, I was,

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I'm not the expert on all this, but I understand

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the, the dermatologists launched a two million

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dollar campaign in about 1982, whatever, to,

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well, to demonize sunlight and get everybody, you

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know, looking themselves for, for cancers. And

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that kind of made dermatology quite lucrative,

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which it wasn't before. So there are inevitably

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vested interests in this sort of thing, aren't

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they? You know, you're not going to get away from

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that. But it's interesting writing now because

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I'm writing. Well, I don't know if it's a sequel

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or whatever, but a successor to the Daylight

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Robbery. It's interesting to look at how it, you

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know, I completely lost my train of thought

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there. Maybe you can cut this bit out and I.

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Sure, yeah, go back and think. So.

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We were talking, yeah, we were talking about the,

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the progress of the research on light and food

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compared to the, you know, what's happening in

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society and technology.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, well, so it's interesting to look at what

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happens with these trends, because in writing the

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sequel to Daylight Robbery is. I've been struck

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by how long it takes for these things to actually

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be adopted. Somebody does the original science,

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you know, I mean, Albert Einstein did the AMC

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squared in 1920. Something got the Nobel Prize

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and so forth, but it was decades before it was

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really applied. Shent Giorgi. I don't know how to

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pronounce it. I'm not sure anybody does, but, you

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know, the guy. I mean, yeah, guy isolated vitamin

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C and so forth and also wrote a lovely little

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book called bioenergetics in 1957. And he said,

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he talked about this queer substance, water. And

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he said that not just water, but almost any

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liquid where it's in contact with a solid surface

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tends to structure from the. The surface

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outwards. So that was what, more than 60 years

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ago this was known about. And it's only just now

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with Gerald Pollock's work and so forth. They

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were saying, oh, my God, structured water. And it

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is, it's. I mean, it's. It's crucial. It's

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brilliant. But I'm not surprised at how long

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these things take. And I don't think it's just,

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you know, people making a profit out of it not

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being recognized. And so I think it's just, well,

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doctors tend to think that what, you know, they

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learned in medical school is it and so forth, and

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if they didn't learn about it, then it can't be

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real. And of course, they didn't learn about

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nutrition in medical school, and they certainly

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didn't learn about sunlight and its benefits.

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Yeah, absolutely. So true. I just saw a post

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yesterday from a woman who was diagnosed with

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ulcerative colitis by her md this was in the

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United States. And she said to him, okay, how

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should I change my diet now that I have this

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diagnosis? And he said to her, it doesn't matter

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what you eat. This was like a year ago. So she

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left and got a new doctor. But it just was a

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reminder to me that physicians are still saying

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that about food, never mind getting to the light

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piece of it.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah, we used to call it. When we started

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up the journal in 1990, we used to call them

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nutritional flat earthers who still believe the

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earth is flat. Nutrition isn't important. How can

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it not be important?

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So you've had a major focus on gut health and

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food allergies. Could you explain to us a little

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bit, sort of, after all of your. Your decades

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working with patients and doing research and

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giving presentations and running the ecological

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Journal. Where, where are you at with explaining

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how food and light and digestion all and. Or

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health and health overall? I would say all work

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together.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Oh wow. You want a short answer to that one?

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I've got an hour, so just talk as long as you

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want.

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Dr. Damien Downing: So it's interesting, when I came into this game

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back in 1980, 1881, there were people saying

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that, you know, food allergy had kind of just

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been invented. Invented by. There was a guy

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called Richard Mc who wrote a book called not all

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in the Mind. I don't know if it made it big in

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America. I don't know, it certainly did over

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here. He basically showed not only from

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practical, practicing doctors viewpoint, he

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showed the food allergies were real, chemical

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sensitivities were real. He remember he described

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some lady who used to use a lot of hairspray and

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it gave her terrible neurological symptoms and

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fixed it just by cutting it out. The interesting

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thing is that he wrote that In, I think 66, 10

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years earlier, he wrote a book called Eat Fat and

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Grow Slim saying that, you know, you needed a low

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carbohydrate, high fat diet. And now that's

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become an essential part of what we. And you

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know, anybody, well, anybody in integrated

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medicine does that took a few decades as well.

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But back then people used to say, oh, I wonder if

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it's the food upset me. And then all of a sudden

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there were people saying, oh, I've got total

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allergy syndrome. And we did an awful lot of

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desensitizing back then. And then people started

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getting multiple chemical sensitivity, you know,

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started figuring. And this is all, well,

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practically all people figuring it out for

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themselves. You know, there's not going to their

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doctor who's saying, oh, you've got multiple

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chemicals and chemical sensitivity. Usually the

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doctor's saying, oh, there's no such thing and

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diet doesn't matter. And then of course, more

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recently electrosensitivity has come into the

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picture. You know, it's true that the, what they

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call it, the gateway drug to all this is just

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basic allergies, I inhaled allergies, hay fever

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and so forth, or food intolerances. And you carry

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that being severe for long enough, you then move

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on to the next level and get multiple chemical

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sensitivity. And after a few years you move on to

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the next level. But it's also, you know, you have

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to be integrated out now because it always has

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been true that toxicity is part of the problem.

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And it was John Ott that described that in the

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light context. You know, his mal illumination was

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a combination of not enough sunlight and too much

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of this thing. I was thinking about how I could

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do a zoom without a screen, but since you need

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the video, I. I guess I'll have to stay here for

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this.

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Sorry. We'll keep it. We'll keep it brief and

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then go for walks outside after.

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Dr. Damien Downing: All right. Yeah. So then now, of course,

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everybody's saying, oh, I think I've got MCAs.

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Mast cell activation syndrome. I'm not even sure

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that that's a real disease. I think it's just a

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different way of looking at. Which opens a lot of

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possibilities. There's a list of drugs and of

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other treatments that may make a difference to

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histamine release or whatever it is that's

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driving your. Your MCAs. But, I mean, it's

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always. It is all. It's all part of the same

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thing. And with the toxicity, again, we should

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have realized a long. Well, we. To some extent,

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we did realize long time ago. When I started in

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this, it was. There had been one or two papers.

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It was kind of regarded as a given that aluminum

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probably had something to do with Alzheimer's.

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But that was 40 years ago, and we're still

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arguing about it now. And, you know, papers

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coming out saying, no, no, it doesn't work. Yes,

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it does. You know.

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Yeah, it's. It's interesting. I mean, what I'm

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really hearing, speaking with you is how, you

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know, what you were just saying earlier, like,

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how long it takes for these new ideas to get

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traction. And it doesn't seem to be related to

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how true they are. There seems to be other

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factors at play. So we had, you know, John Ott,

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decades ago, talking about doing all the light

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research, and Georgia, you mentioned, and so many

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other researchers. I know. And anyway, it's just

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interesting to me, right, because we all. We're

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all like, oh, this is this. All this new stuff.

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And it's like. It's not new. It's just kind of

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hiding or being ignored or being pushed to the

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periphery, and it's taking all of us. You know,

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we have to go looking for it. But it. The. The

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research is there and the evidence is there, and

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it's been there for a long time, and you've

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created it. You know, you and your colleagues

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have created a entire field around it.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. Yeah.

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So walk me through that. Oh, read. I'm sorry,

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what do you read me?

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah. First sentence of Daylight Robbery,

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1988, goes. The plot of many a thriller has

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hinged on the fact that the best place to hide

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something is where it is obvious. I think that

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applies. Oh, absolutely, in space, to the

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sunlight thing. You know, you say, how, how would

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we m. How did we miss it? Because it was always

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there. We never thought, we never realized that

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we were systematically depriving ourselves of it.

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Even though, I mean, what's, what's the real

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punishment in a, in a prison or a dungeon? Let's

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be true. It's depriving you of sunlight. That's

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why they talk about a prison term, you know,

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sheet white people. You know, you see somebody

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like that, I think they've probably been inside.

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Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on.

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No, it's just, it's so true. And, you know, I

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think back to the years of my life where I was

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completely bought into the idea that, that the

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sun was bad for me. And I was, I was a good girl

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and I was going to follow the rules and I put on

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my SPF 9000 every time I went out in the sun.

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Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, I know.

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And I feel, I feel a little betrayed, I have to

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say.

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Dr. Damien Downing: What, what turned it for you?

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The first moment was actually from a woman who

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did cosmetic. Like she, she was doing stuff for

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my skin. I was in my 20s and she had been trained

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in Hungary. She was probably in her 60s, so 60

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something Hungarian woman. And she was looking at

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my skin and she said, you don't go out in the sun

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enough. And I was like, what? And she said, the

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sun is life. And she said it with such force and

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such conviction that it actually broke through my

Meredith Oke:

false paradigm and stayed with me. And I didn't.

Meredith Oke:

It was a long time before I understood it the way

Meredith Oke:

I do now. But it was enough that I stopped being

Meredith Oke:

so crazy about, about putting on SPF and started

Meredith Oke:

to think like, oh, that actually makes sense. The

Meredith Oke:

sun is life. Like, you know, you can tell

Meredith Oke:

something is true by how it feels when it, you

Meredith Oke:

know, how it feels in your body. And I was like,

Meredith Oke:

God, how are you? Do you find that when you have

Meredith Oke:

been working with people or when people come to

Meredith Oke:

you and you broach the subject, are they open to

Meredith Oke:

it? The idea of sunlight, I mean, you.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Know, way back, nobody really thought about it,

Meredith Oke:

you know, but sometimes you get dramatic changes

Meredith Oke:

in people. But then you think, we didn't, we

Meredith Oke:

didn't have nearly as many screens back then. You

Meredith Oke:

know, you were pretty advanced if you had a

Meredith Oke:

computer.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: And smartphones hadn't been invented, you know,

Meredith Oke:

so the, the situation was not as bad really. It's

Meredith Oke:

got a lot worse over the decades. Firstly,

Meredith Oke:

because we're even more out of natural light. And

Meredith Oke:

in toxic light, if you like, we're mal

Meredith Oke:

illuminated more and more. Secondly, because

Meredith Oke:

other forms of toxicity are just getting worse

Meredith Oke:

and worse all the time. You know, there's a, a

Meredith Oke:

principle that I keep thinking about. I'm not

Meredith Oke:

sure to how, to what extent it works. The

Meredith Oke:

principle is that natural light, good light, will

Meredith Oke:

protect you from the effects of bad light. Now,

Meredith Oke:

there are a few instances where it clearly is

Meredith Oke:

true, but the good light, you have to have the

Meredith Oke:

good light exposure first, and that may be near

Meredith Oke:

infrared or whatever, but the extent to which you

Meredith Oke:

can then fix the damage of bad light and so forth

Meredith Oke:

by good light, I'm not sure. Yeah, well, we're

Meredith Oke:

not sure, but I mean, it is obviously it's the

Meredith Oke:

fabric of the universe that we're dealing with

Meredith Oke:

here. This whole. Especially once you bring

Meredith Oke:

structured water in. You know, there's the

Meredith Oke:

smallest things, electrons, photons, protons and

Meredith Oke:

so forth, you know, and it's. Suddenly you start

Meredith Oke:

to realize, my God, it's on our side. He always

Meredith Oke:

was on our side. You know, there's a paper I've

Meredith Oke:

just been looking at that somebody linked me to

Meredith Oke:

by some Korean guys about magnetic sense, you

Meredith Oke:

know, that birds navigate by magnetic sense and

Meredith Oke:

so forth. And some of it happens in the eyes and

Meredith Oke:

other bits of it happen with magnetic granules or

Meredith Oke:

whatever, somewhere in the brain. And it turns

Meredith Oke:

out that humans can do this to a certain extent,

Meredith Oke:

but it's only men, really. And it's own by this

Meredith Oke:

method anyway. And it's only slightly over 50% of

Meredith Oke:

them. But that could be just because all the

Meredith Oke:

rubbish EMFs that we're exposed to. So it's only

Meredith Oke:

men, it's only when they're hungry, and it's only

Meredith Oke:

when they're exposed to blue light. So if you're

Meredith Oke:

a hunter gatherer and you wake up hungry, well,

Meredith Oke:

obviously this is a real advantage, isn't it?

Meredith Oke:

You know, and this is the, the ability to

Meredith Oke:

navigate by magic, by the.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Magnetic field, to know where true north is or,

Meredith Oke:

you know, which is a, a reasonable, fascinating

Meredith Oke:

pie Mason, isn't it?

Meredith Oke:

It really is.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. But so it's the, the principle. This is the

Meredith Oke:

environment we're involved in, where there is

Meredith Oke:

blue light in the mornings and there is a

Meredith Oke:

magnetic field that we can navigate by.

Meredith Oke:

When you talk about the fabric of the universe,

Meredith Oke:

how do you, how do you think about that and where

Meredith Oke:

we fit into it and where our mitochondria and our

Meredith Oke:

cells and our bodies fit.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Into it, Mitochondria, wherever they came from,

Meredith Oke:

you know, that melatonin is Basically as old as

Meredith Oke:

mitochondria.

Meredith Oke:

We did not.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. And it's the. Probably the best antioxidant

Meredith Oke:

going. I'm not sure that, you know, it makes much

Meredith Oke:

sense to have a league table of antioxidants, but

Meredith Oke:

it's a powerful antioxidant and it's probably,

Meredith Oke:

they say, about five times as potent and

Meredith Oke:

antioxidant as vitamin C. Really? Yeah. I don't

Meredith Oke:

know how they figured that out. What is said. And

Meredith Oke:

you know that it's produced in the night in order

Meredith Oke:

to help you sleep. No, that's wrong. Is that it

Meredith Oke:

is produced in the night by the pineal gland and

Meredith Oke:

the pine. We used to think it going around the

Meredith Oke:

bloodstream. You know, you could measure the PI,

Meredith Oke:

the melatonin there. And it was on its way to the

Meredith Oke:

brain. No, the pineal pumps it into the

Meredith Oke:

ventricles of the brain, which circulate it

Meredith Oke:

through the. You know about the glymphatic system.

Meredith Oke:

Tell us.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Okay. The brain doesn't have an ordinary

Meredith Oke:

lymphatic drainage like the rest of the body. The

Meredith Oke:

rest of the body has lymphatic ducts that run

Meredith Oke:

away from the tissues and take the things to the

Meredith Oke:

regional lymph glands, you know, the ones in your

Meredith Oke:

neck here, the ones in your armpit and so forth.

Meredith Oke:

And what they're taking there is firstly, waste

Meredith Oke:

and secondly, inflammation. And that's the same

Meredith Oke:

stuff, you know, because the immune system needs

Meredith Oke:

to know what it's going to have to handle. And

Meredith Oke:

that's how it gets that information. And that's

Meredith Oke:

how it activates the lymphocytes and so forth to

Meredith Oke:

do it. But we always thought that there wasn't a

Meredith Oke:

system like that in the brain, although it was

Meredith Oke:

just a tiny bit of it and so forth. Turns out the

Meredith Oke:

brain has a better system. It's got what you

Meredith Oke:

would call a paravascular system. So that there

Meredith Oke:

are spaces around the vessels that are to some

Meredith Oke:

extent driven by the pulsing in the vessels. And

Meredith Oke:

they carry a load of other stuff that isn't in

Meredith Oke:

the blood, for instance, in the brain. The other

Meredith Oke:

thing about the brain is that that's got an

Meredith Oke:

inward and an outward direction of travel for

Meredith Oke:

this glymphatic or paravascular system. Right.

Meredith Oke:

The inward takes the stuff from the ventricle

Meredith Oke:

into the tissue of the brain, and the outer one

Meredith Oke:

takes it from the tissue of the brain and the

Meredith Oke:

interstitium, if you like, of the brain out and

Meredith Oke:

connects to the lymphatics around the back here,

Meredith Oke:

and more particularly through the nose and the

Meredith Oke:

structures around Here. And so another

Meredith Oke:

interesting fact about that is that when you suck

Meredith Oke:

and chew and, you know, adjust the pressure in

Meredith Oke:

your mouth, there's a certain amount of pumping

Meredith Oke:

action going on on this stuff coming from brain.

Meredith Oke:

Why do comforters work on children? Probably for

Meredith Oke:

that reason. It calms the brain physically and

Meredith Oke:

literally.

Meredith Oke:

Like a soother. You mean like a pacifier when the

Meredith Oke:

baby.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Exactly.

Meredith Oke:

That sucking motion. Oh, okay. Makes sense.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: And the melatonins produced by the pineal goes

Meredith Oke:

straight into the ventricles, and from that it

Meredith Oke:

goes by the paravascular route into the brain,

Meredith Oke:

timed to happen when the glymphatic system is

Meredith Oke:

activated, which is when you are asleep and

Meredith Oke:

particularly in deep sleep. So it goes in there

Meredith Oke:

and all the. Helps to mop up all the antioxidant,

Meredith Oke:

all the oxidative stress and toxins, and also it

Meredith Oke:

activates some of the other molecules like

Meredith Oke:

superoxide dismutase and so on. And then all the

Meredith Oke:

gump is taken out and delivered to, actually to

Meredith Oke:

the. The lymph nodes around here in due course,

Meredith Oke:

including the ones in here, the tonsils. So all

Meredith Oke:

this stuff is. Is so in the brain. But that's one

Meredith Oke:

half of the story, because. And again, it's. It

Meredith Oke:

happened a long time ago. 1972, there was a paper

Meredith Oke:

where they took the pineal gland out of little

Meredith Oke:

furry animals, rats or whatever, and measured

Meredith Oke:

their circulating melatonin, and it obviously

Meredith Oke:

went down, but only by about 80%. So there must

Meredith Oke:

have been melatonin coming from elsewhere. And

Meredith Oke:

where it's coming from is every cell in the body

Meredith Oke:

and particularly the mitochondria of every cell,

Meredith Oke:

because that's where it's needed. Because when

Meredith Oke:

you produce energy, the electron. I think, not

Meredith Oke:

quite sure who said it, but I will find out

Meredith Oke:

eventually. The electron transport chain, you

Meredith Oke:

know, the cytochromes in the mitochondrial wall,

Meredith Oke:

is less than perfect. So every, you know, few

Meredith Oke:

thousand times, whatever, it drops a free radical

Meredith Oke:

there instead of using it constructively. And so

Meredith Oke:

you. When you exercise, when you produce ATP,

Meredith Oke:

you. You build up oxidative stress, and you also

Meredith Oke:

produce the melatonin to. To deal with it, and

Meredith Oke:

you produce it locally and not much of it gets

Meredith Oke:

out. So it's hard to know quite what circulating

Meredith Oke:

levels of melatonin need mean. Sorry, it's hard

Meredith Oke:

to know what they mean because it's the overflow.

Meredith Oke:

It's not like it's being delivered somewhere.

Meredith Oke:

It's the stuff that spilled over from the

Meredith Oke:

mitochondria and, you know, during the night from

Meredith Oke:

the brain.

Meredith Oke:

So the melatonin has spilled over from where it's

Meredith Oke:

produced and then is used by the rest of the body

Meredith Oke:

for all kinds of important things, presumably.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yes, but I mean, if you get a paper, there is a

Meredith Oke:

paper, for instance, that says you can get a

Meredith Oke:

boost to your circulating melatonin level from

Meredith Oke:

eating two bananas. Well, I'm sure it's true, but

Meredith Oke:

what does it mean in real life? Because if it's

Meredith Oke:

there circulating, it's not necessarily getting

Meredith Oke:

into the mitochondria, which is where it's really

Meredith Oke:

needed.

Meredith Oke:

So what is the best way to ensure sufficient

Meredith Oke:

melatonin production?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Good circadian rhythm with, you know, decent

Meredith Oke:

sleep at night for a reasonable period. And

Meredith Oke:

probably I. Well, either use, you know, Andrew

Meredith Oke:

Huberman's thing about getting outside in the

Meredith Oke:

first hour of waking, get outside for five

Meredith Oke:

minutes and look up at the blue sky and so forth.

Meredith Oke:

Well, I tell you, it doesn't work here, but it is

Meredith Oke:

miserable and cold out there and it's dark. But,

Meredith Oke:

yeah, that's a good principle. And better still,

Meredith Oke:

do some exercise, because exercise causes you a

Meredith Oke:

high spike in circulating melatonin, so it must

Meredith Oke:

be causing even bigger a spike in the melatonin

Meredith Oke:

where it's needed in the mitochondria, presumably

Meredith Oke:

in your muscles. So I think those are really kind

Meredith Oke:

of the two elements of the circadian rhythm that

Meredith Oke:

you first need most important.

Meredith Oke:

Morning sunlight and morning movement.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And night sleep and sleeping well at night.

Meredith Oke:

Right. With ideally not a lot of artificial light

Meredith Oke:

exposure before bed.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Or while you're sleeping.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yes. I

Meredith Oke:

mean, it's. How much is enough to disrupt. Not

Meredith Oke:

much, really. There's. There is a study,

Meredith Oke:

actually, if you gave me a couple minutes, I

Meredith Oke:

could probably find. But we talked about it back

Meredith Oke:

then, A daylight robbery showed that using a. A

Meredith Oke:

single blue light bulb, which is not very bright

Meredith Oke:

at all, an incandescent bulb by the bed, and

Meredith Oke:

having it on and off in a cycle would. It would

Meredith Oke:

entrain women's menstrual cycles. So that's an

Meredith Oke:

effect coming from really not much extra light of

Meredith Oke:

that color.

Meredith Oke:

Coming in, but it's still enough to completely

Meredith Oke:

change our hormone cycle. Yeah, yeah. So we

Meredith Oke:

really need to be mindful of this because most

Meredith Oke:

people. I mean, where I live, most people have,

Meredith Oke:

you know, gets dark outside, they flip on the

Meredith Oke:

overhead LEDs, the widest, brightest light. They

Meredith Oke:

probably have that light bulb next to their bed

Meredith Oke:

to read before they go to sleep. If they're not

Meredith Oke:

reading on their phone or their iPad and it's

Meredith Oke:

just considered normal. Nobody even thinks about

Meredith Oke:

it.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, no, no, that's right, it's, it's, you know,

Meredith Oke:

well, it's in plain sight, so we're missing it.

Meredith Oke:

Right. So what prompted you to write Daylight

Meredith Oke:

Robbery? What was going on that led you to write

Meredith Oke:

an entire book on the health benefits of

Meredith Oke:

sunlight? What were you seeing? What was

Meredith Oke:

happening in the world? How did, how did that

Meredith Oke:

happen?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Well, really it was meeting John Ott. I mean,

Meredith Oke:

obviously I was already doing nutrition and

Meredith Oke:

things like that. I came into this stuff really

Meredith Oke:

originally by training in acupuncture. But then

Meredith Oke:

when I started up practicing it, set up a clinic,

Meredith Oke:

a couple of people came to me and said, oh, I

Meredith Oke:

think I might have a food allergy if you read

Meredith Oke:

this book by Richard McAnus. And so I started

Meredith Oke:

doing, you know, more and more of that. And then

Meredith Oke:

I read something about John Art and I got

Meredith Oke:

interested now as an extension of the whole

Meredith Oke:

nutrition thing and went over to see John Ott. He

Meredith Oke:

was a lovely guy living in Florida and he showed

Meredith Oke:

me his special glass in his windows and the, the

Meredith Oke:

way he'd adapted his TV so it lay on the floor in

Meredith Oke:

a, in a box pointing upwards. Then he had a, an a

Meredith Oke:

mirror at this angle above it so that it came out

Meredith Oke:

there. But hopefully harmful rays were going

Meredith Oke:

straight up the ceiling.

Meredith Oke:

Oh my goodness. I've never heard that. Yeah, so

Meredith Oke:

he, he invented his own defense kind of

Meredith Oke:

mitigation technology.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

So these things are possible. We don't have to

Meredith Oke:

be. I mean if he could just do that in his living

Meredith Oke:

room, I'm sure all these brilliant engineers

Meredith Oke:

could figure this out if they wanted to.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I've got a

Meredith Oke:

colleague who's quite influential in the whole

Meredith Oke:

electro, well not just electro sensitivity, but

Meredith Oke:

harm from electromagnetic fields and so forth.

Meredith Oke:

And you know, I mean, you understand that we

Meredith Oke:

have, we now have billion in certain frequencies.

Meredith Oke:

There are a billion times as much electromagnetic

Meredith Oke:

fields waves about now as they were 50 years ago.

Meredith Oke:

And of course it's harmful. One of the people

Meredith Oke:

who's quite influential in that has the problem

Meredith Oke:

herself and has been shown in a double blinded,

Meredith Oke:

blinded experiment to react to mobile phone

Meredith Oke:

things and so forth. But she manages to use a

Meredith Oke:

computer and so forth, just has them solid wired

Meredith Oke:

and necessary insulate stuff, you know, and you

Meredith Oke:

can get a bit of tin foil and put it around the,

Meredith Oke:

the connectors or whatever. It's better than

Meredith Oke:

putting it around your food.

Meredith Oke:

Yes, that's true. So we can, we buy the tin foil

Meredith Oke:

but we use it to wrap our, our wires, not our

Meredith Oke:

food. Okay. This is, yeah, we're, we're

Meredith Oke:

definitely not, not looking like the basic

Meredith Oke:

normies out there anymore. Okay, so you were

Meredith Oke:

talking about meeting John Ott.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And then that led to writing Daylight Robbery.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, well, I led to doing a, a bit more research

Meredith Oke:

and so forth. And I mean, it wasn't just going on

Meredith Oke:

the Internet those days. I don't know if, you

Meredith Oke:

know, you had to, had to write off to the British

Meredith Oke:

Library, fill these little forms in for the

Meredith Oke:

paper, and a couple of weeks later they sent it

Meredith Oke:

to you. I've still got a few of those hanging

Meredith Oke:

around. But, you know, things emerged like the,

Meredith Oke:

the cancer connection with lack of sunlight. The

Meredith Oke:

basic principle is that. Well, not the principle,

Meredith Oke:

the rule of thumb, if you like, is that the

Meredith Oke:

further north or south from the equator you go,

Meredith Oke:

the more cancer there is, the greater your

Meredith Oke:

chances of developing cancer. And the figure kind

Meredith Oke:

of comes out with is two and a half times, if you

Meredith Oke:

live in, I don't know, Oslo or somewhere way up

Meredith Oke:

north or possibly Edmonton even, you've got

Meredith Oke:

around two and a half times the probability of

Meredith Oke:

developing cancer as you have in the, in let's

Meredith Oke:

say in Florida. And that, that paper goes back to

Meredith Oke:

like the 20s, you know, so some of this is a

Meredith Oke:

hundred years old now. And of course that's got

Meredith Oke:

worse because of a whole bunch of things like the

Meredith Oke:

actual ionizing radiation. What we haven't really

Meredith Oke:

appreciated is that firstly, an event like

Meredith Oke:

Chernobyl or Fukushima, which is still going on.

Meredith Oke:

All right, firstly, they're not the, you know,

Meredith Oke:

the hundred ones in 100 years events. The

Meredith Oke:

Chernobyl was a succession of the, the light

Meredith Oke:

latest in the succession of events and there have

Meredith Oke:

been several since nuclear. If you've got all

Meredith Oke:

this nuclear stuff, you know it's going to go

Meredith Oke:

wrong sometimes inevitably, and it does. The

Meredith Oke:

second principle is that that radiation doesn't

Meredith Oke:

just stay there where it is, it goes all around

Meredith Oke:

the world. So we're all exposed to a greater

Meredith Oke:

background level of radiation than we were. And

Meredith Oke:

with Chernobyl, there's the amazing story of the,

Meredith Oke:

the Pripyat marshes, which are all around the

Meredith Oke:

exclusion zone in, around the reactor in

Meredith Oke:

Chernobyl. And every couple of times a year,

Meredith Oke:

different berries, the locals go into the marshes

Meredith Oke:

and they into the woods there and gather up

Meredith Oke:

berries to different times at berries at

Meredith Oke:

different times a year. And then they bring them

Meredith Oke:

out to the roads and there are merchants there

Meredith Oke:

with stores on the roads and they weigh the, the

Meredith Oke:

berries and so forth and they run a Geiger

Meredith Oke:

counter over them. If the Geiger counter sounds

Meredith Oke:

off high, they still buy the stuff, they just pay

Meredith Oke:

the guys less. And then it goes into the, into

Meredith Oke:

the international system. Could be in your jam at

Meredith Oke:

breakfast right now. Really.

Meredith Oke:

The radiated berries.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, all right, so we have the background of the

Meredith Oke:

really bad ionizing radiation and then we also

Meredith Oke:

have the non ionizing radiation that we surround

Meredith Oke:

ourselves by with our mobile phones, our wi fi,

Meredith Oke:

cell towers, 5G. All of these things.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, all of this that just keeps getting worse

Meredith Oke:

all the time.

Meredith Oke:

Have you noticed, I mean, you talked about the

Meredith Oke:

electromagnetic, the electrosensitivity. Have you

Meredith Oke:

noticed in your patients symptoms becoming more

Meredith Oke:

complex and symptoms arising in, in younger

Meredith Oke:

people? I know here in the United States there's

Meredith Oke:

an epidemic of combination of autoimmune and mood

Meredith Oke:

disorders and all kinds of things happening in,

Meredith Oke:

in very young people, you know, adolescents,

Meredith Oke:

teenagers, and often even children. Young

Meredith Oke:

children.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, that. I mean, that has been going on for a

Meredith Oke:

long time. Still is going on. And you know, it's

Meredith Oke:

not as well. There are. Okay, there's one

Meredith Oke:

interesting surprise that we just noticed, but

Meredith Oke:

generally, you know, we. It's been kind of

Meredith Oke:

predicted for a long time the things are going to

Meredith Oke:

go on getting worse like that. And my colleague

Meredith Oke:

of mine, Stephen Davis, described what he called

Meredith Oke:

the nutrient toxin interface. Quite simply, the

Meredith Oke:

more toxins you're exposed to and you know, let's

Meredith Oke:

include toxic stress in this and AMS and

Meredith Oke:

everything else. The more toxins you're exposed

Meredith Oke:

to, the more nutrients you need to deal with

Meredith Oke:

them. Simple as that. So why would we not take

Meredith Oke:

supplements these days? The one interesting one

Meredith Oke:

that I just realized I'd experience is I was

Meredith Oke:

talking about kids with this strep reaction

Meredith Oke:

called pandas, which is an autoimmune disease

Meredith Oke:

triggered by strep infection. And I realized that

Meredith Oke:

both of them had had shingles in childhood. So

Meredith Oke:

shingles is a reaction to the. Well, it's a

Meredith Oke:

reactivation of the chickenpox virus. Right, but

Meredith Oke:

that's only supposed to happen decades later.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, I always thought shingles, you got

Meredith Oke:

chickenpox, I mean, this was back before they

Meredith Oke:

vaccinated the crap out of everyone. But you got

Meredith Oke:

chickenpox as a child and shingles as an adult.

Meredith Oke:

If you were unlucky enough not to have the

Meredith Oke:

chickenpox as a child or if it came back and the

Meredith Oke:

shingles were way worse.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

So you're saying there now children were having

Meredith Oke:

shingles.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, that's right.

Meredith Oke:

Okay, so that's a new development, new.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: To everybody, I think.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, yeah. And so what's. This is just another

Meredith Oke:

symptom of, well, immune systems Being destroyed.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, I guess so. By all sorts of factors

Meredith Oke:

together, including the mal illumination and the.

Meredith Oke:

The crap in the food and so forth. It isn't just

Meredith Oke:

to do with, you know, the COVID vaccine or

Meredith Oke:

anything like that. It. Because it. These two

Meredith Oke:

predated both that.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. Well, it's interesting where you're saying,

Meredith Oke:

you know, we need to have a nutrient load. You

Meredith Oke:

know, the nutrient load needs to be greater than

Meredith Oke:

the toxic load or the. The restorative inputs

Meredith Oke:

need to be greater than the assault inputs. And

Meredith Oke:

decade by decade, we've been adding assault over

Meredith Oke:

assault over assault.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And with the light piece, I think not even

Meredith Oke:

understanding. I think the food piece, we kind of

Meredith Oke:

knew. We just didn't do anything about it. But

Meredith Oke:

with the light piece, it's like, what do you.

Meredith Oke:

People are sort of still surprised? What are you

Meredith Oke:

talking about? What do you mean?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And I'm curious. You mentioned earlier when you

Meredith Oke:

were talking about the. The glymphatic system in

Meredith Oke:

the brain, you mentioned the tonsils. And I want

Meredith Oke:

to ask you something. I have met two children, I

Meredith Oke:

live in the northeast of the United States, and I

Meredith Oke:

have. I have met two children in the last year

Meredith Oke:

whose pediatricians recommended they have their

Meredith Oke:

tonsils removed, and they did. And I'm just

Meredith Oke:

wondering what your thoughts are on that. It was

Meredith Oke:

my understanding that that's not necessarily

Meredith Oke:

something that is recommended these days. But I

Meredith Oke:

was surprised. I mean, to know personally know

Meredith Oke:

two people.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Should we as parents be cautious about that

Meredith Oke:

procedure?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: I think you should, yes. I mean, it is true that

Meredith Oke:

you do get kids who have recurrent tonsillitis,

Meredith Oke:

and so they're sick, they're off school, they're,

Meredith Oke:

you know, their learning suffers and that kind of

Meredith Oke:

thing. They're unwell a lot of the time. But I

Meredith Oke:

mean, what's our response to that? We give them

Meredith Oke:

loads of antibiotics, which trashes the

Meredith Oke:

microbiome for pretty much the rest of their

Meredith Oke:

life, and then we vaccinate them. And there's

Meredith Oke:

good evidence that having things like measles

Meredith Oke:

infection, I mean, gives you some defense against

Meredith Oke:

allergies and that kind of thing. So that's part

Meredith Oke:

of the story of the explosion of the. The

Meredith Oke:

epidemic of allergies, whatever that we're

Meredith Oke:

seeing. And I mean, allergies, autoimmunity is

Meredith Oke:

just like the armed wing of allergy, really. And

Meredith Oke:

in fact, now that we understand more about

Meredith Oke:

autoimmunity, we realize that these just mistakes

Meredith Oke:

in a language that our immune system is speaking

Meredith Oke:

all the time. 70% of the immune system is

Meredith Oke:

involved in not reacting to things, only 30% is

Meredith Oke:

involved in reacting. And so you need a balance

Meredith Oke:

of all of these things. You need the activators

Meredith Oke:

and the regulators. And it's the same for

Meredith Oke:

allergies, autoimmunity and for cancer. You know,

Meredith Oke:

they're all to do with imbalance, disruption of

Meredith Oke:

the immune system. And having a good circadian

Meredith Oke:

rhythm is obviously a key factor in all of that.

Meredith Oke:

So, I mean, these days, you ask me what's the

Meredith Oke:

first thing I should do about all that. Get a

Meredith Oke:

good circadian rhythm.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, it's comforting to hear you say that

Meredith Oke:

because I think the bad news is so many people

Meredith Oke:

have terrible light inputs and don't think about

Meredith Oke:

it. But the good news is it's not that

Meredith Oke:

complicated to fix.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: No, no.

Meredith Oke:

It's just changing a few light bulbs, you know,

Meredith Oke:

putting some filters on your screen, you know

Meredith Oke:

that there are ways to going outside. It's not

Meredith Oke:

hard stuff.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: No, and I don't really. It's another. This is

Meredith Oke:

things like the, you know, cutting, doing,

Meredith Oke:

auditing your environment for electromagnetic

Meredith Oke:

fields and so forth. There isn't an absolute

Meredith Oke:

threshold that you've got to get over for this to

Meredith Oke:

do you any good. I mean, every move in the right

Meredith Oke:

direction is going to be beneficial to you.

Meredith Oke:

Right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: You know. Yeah, I had. When I started thinking

Meredith Oke:

about the, the screen stuff, I started getting

Meredith Oke:

floaters in the eye. And I went to the big eye

Meredith Oke:

hospital here in Moorfield and they say, yeah,

Meredith Oke:

well, it's floaters. They might go away, might

Meredith Oke:

not, may come back again. So I said, what can I

Meredith Oke:

do about it? Nothing really. They've got no

Meredith Oke:

treatments for it. But I fixed it, I fixed it. I

Meredith Oke:

recommend two things. One is hydration and

Meredith Oke:

particularly, you know, zeta based hydration.

Meredith Oke:

What do you mean by that?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Oh, okay. The zeta potential is the charge on

Meredith Oke:

cells and other surfaces. So, you know, opposite

Meredith Oke:

poles attract, positive and negative attract to

Meredith Oke:

each other, like poles repel. So the zeta

Meredith Oke:

potential is the negative potential on the

Meredith Oke:

surface of red blood cells. And most obviously

Meredith Oke:

that keeps them apart, keeps them separated. And

Meredith Oke:

if you do dark field microscopy on somebody else,

Meredith Oke:

I don't. You know, the first thing they always

Meredith Oke:

say is, oh, look, your red cells are clumping.

Meredith Oke:

That's why they're clumping is because they

Meredith Oke:

haven't got enough negative charge to keep them

Meredith Oke:

apart. And so because they're actually larger

Meredith Oke:

than some of the capillaries, they have to go

Meredith Oke:

down, they have to be a part. If they're clumped,

Meredith Oke:

it's deadly. You're not going to get nearly

Meredith Oke:

enough blood Oxygen, all the other nutrients to

Meredith Oke:

your tissues. So zeta potential is one of. Now, I

Meredith Oke:

think one of the most fundamental things you can

Meredith Oke:

do. And of course, it's coming from the

Meredith Oke:

structured water.

Meredith Oke:

The zeta potential is coming from the structured

Meredith Oke:

water. So when you say hydrating yourself, zeta

Meredith Oke:

hydration, is that a particular type of water or.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Well, it's pure water, really. I mean, I

Meredith Oke:

certainly wouldn't use London tap water. I don't

Meredith Oke:

know about where you are.

Meredith Oke:

No. There's fluoride, right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Oh, God, no. That's awful. That's really bad.

Meredith Oke:

I've got a great big filter under my sink,

Meredith Oke:

kitchen sink, and it's got a vortexer, a swirler.

Meredith Oke:

So that's. So then you just need to add pure

Meredith Oke:

vortex water. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And then you add. Do you add minerals? Do you

Meredith Oke:

add. What do you do to it?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: You add electrolytes. I mean, to be honest, they

Meredith Oke:

all work, I reckon, really. There probably are

Meredith Oke:

some that are distinctly better than others, but

Meredith Oke:

all the. The stuff, the, you know, potassium and

Meredith Oke:

magnesium and so forth, that they would. They

Meredith Oke:

would probably give you if you had diarrhea, but

Meredith Oke:

without the crap.

Meredith Oke:

Right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Well, yeah, in the. I think they all work, you

Meredith Oke:

know.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. The elect electrolyte combinations. So v.

Meredith Oke:

So pure water, vortex electrolytes. Okay. So we

Meredith Oke:

were talking about you, how you cured your

Meredith Oke:

floaters. Okay. So that was the first piece. Well

Meredith Oke:

hydrated with water that can keep our zeta

Meredith Oke:

potential in a good place.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

All right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: And the other input that I did was the infrared.

Meredith Oke:

But actually, these days I think it's clear that

Meredith Oke:

you could. You need the UV as well as the

Meredith Oke:

infrared. The effect of these wavelengths on the

Meredith Oke:

structured water is infrared, particularly 8, 10

Meredith Oke:

nanometers is the best penetrating one. Builds up

Meredith Oke:

the layers, more and more layers of the

Meredith Oke:

structured water. And the impact of the UV is to

Meredith Oke:

build up the depth of the negative charge in

Meredith Oke:

there. So, you know, both together is a perfect

Meredith Oke:

combination.

Meredith Oke:

Can you explain that a little more? I haven't

Meredith Oke:

heard it put quite like that. It's interesting.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Oh, okay. We assume the, you know, people

Meredith Oke:

listening to this will know about structured

Meredith Oke:

water.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, more or less. Yes.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Right. Okay.

Meredith Oke:

But, I mean, but if you have. If you have a quick

Meredith Oke:

overview of that, please give it. I always like

Meredith Oke:

to have ever. You know, I learned something new

Meredith Oke:

from the way people explain things just in their

Meredith Oke:

own special way. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Structured water. Well, shank. Your. The

Meredith Oke:

unpronounceable one said that this happens, you

Meredith Oke:

know, 60 years ago, that lots of liquids, not

Meredith Oke:

just water, in contact with the surface, they

Meredith Oke:

form a sort of A structure. And he said water has

Meredith Oke:

two melting points. One, when solid ice melts

Meredith Oke:

into water, and the second, which is in the 30s

Meredith Oke:

centigrade, somewhere quite near our body

Meredith Oke:

temperature, where the liquid ice, which is the

Meredith Oke:

structured water, melts. And he speculated that

Meredith Oke:

this gives our bodies the ability to destroy and

Meredith Oke:

reform structured water kind of at our will. That

Meredith Oke:

was, presumably, is something to do with what

Meredith Oke:

running a temperature does. You know, whether

Meredith Oke:

it's making the environment less friendly to

Meredith Oke:

infect the Asians or they're not quite sure yet,

Meredith Oke:

but that certainly happens. So structured water

Meredith Oke:

forms when it's in touch with a surface that has

Meredith Oke:

a bit of charge on it, and it doesn't take much,

Meredith Oke:

so it tends to have a kind of a hexagonal form.

Meredith Oke:

It's a layer. First it's a monolayer, then it's

Meredith Oke:

multiple layers. And it's been calculated that

Meredith Oke:

inside us, because there's no empty space inside

Meredith Oke:

us, it's all stuff, you know, it's all molecules.

Meredith Oke:

And a lot of the molecules that are at the

Meredith Oke:

interstitium, like the glycosaminide, glycans and

Meredith Oke:

so forth, they really like water. And so the

Meredith Oke:

water on top of those will be structured water,

Meredith Oke:

which. And also on collagen, which is like a.

Meredith Oke:

It's like rope. It's. There's, you know, long

Meredith Oke:

strings, the small filaments and so forth. So

Meredith Oke:

electricity travels better through structured

Meredith Oke:

water because it doesn't have to try going

Meredith Oke:

everywhere. It's got a kind of Australia. It's

Meredith Oke:

like providing it with a wire, but slightly flat

Meredith Oke:

wire. And so this is kind of key to a lot of

Meredith Oke:

life. This is the bit where the universe is on

Meredith Oke:

our side, you know. So I think, honestly, without

Meredith Oke:

this sort of stuff, life probably would never

Meredith Oke:

have happened, but it did. And presumably these

Meredith Oke:

rules must be the same everywhere in the

Meredith Oke:

universe. So, you know, maybe the SETI search for

Meredith Oke:

extraterrestrial intelligence will finally find

Meredith Oke:

something. We shall see. But the structured water

Meredith Oke:

happens naturally just because it's in contact

Meredith Oke:

with the surface. And then kind of all light, to

Meredith Oke:

a greater or lesser extent, encourages it to. To

Meredith Oke:

build up more and more layers of structured

Meredith Oke:

water. But the best at doing it is the infrared.

Meredith Oke:

And in fact, it's in sort of middle infrared,

Meredith Oke:

where you're talking thousands of nanometers. But

Meredith Oke:

the problem with that is that not much reaches

Meredith Oke:

the surface of the Earth because it's absorbed by

Meredith Oke:

the water in the atmosphere. So the most useful

Meredith Oke:

one is the near infrared, when there's a lot more

Meredith Oke:

reaches us. And also it seems to be the

Meredith Oke:

wavelength with the best penetration. So it goes,

Meredith Oke:

you know, way deep into us. And things like the

Meredith Oke:

cerebral spinal fluid are pretty good conductors

Meredith Oke:

of that sort of electricity. You know, when you

Meredith Oke:

do ultrasound examination, fluids, watery fluids,

Meredith Oke:

look black. There's no reflection from in there.

Meredith Oke:

The stuff goes straight through easily. And I

Meredith Oke:

think if you were to do it with light, it would

Meredith Oke:

be the same. Certainly with the infrared light,

Meredith Oke:

it's carried well through cerebral spirit and of

Meredith Oke:

course, through the amniotic fluid. So the baby's

Meredith Oke:

getting a nice dose. Especially if you take your

Meredith Oke:

bump out into the sun, Baby gets a really good

Meredith Oke:

dose. And so the infrared does that, and the

Meredith Oke:

ultraviolet, which we need for a variety of

Meredith Oke:

reasons. This is one of the reasons why it's

Meredith Oke:

beneficial to us because it helps to build up the

Meredith Oke:

depth of the charge right next to the. The cell

Meredith Oke:

or the molecule or whatever, which keeps

Meredith Oke:

everything moving and. And flowing. So whether

Meredith Oke:

that is why UVA and blue light, high energy,

Meredith Oke:

visible, if you, like, make the magnetic sense,

Meredith Oke:

were. Don't know yet. You know, there's a lot to

Meredith Oke:

be figured out about that.

Meredith Oke:

Wow. So it really. I mean, we really are getting

Meredith Oke:

charged up.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

We're like the. Where these little sort of liquid

Meredith Oke:

crystal matrices getting charged up by the. The

Meredith Oke:

light that we surround ourselves by. Or depleted,

Meredith Oke:

as the case may be.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Well, yes. Quiet. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Wow. So I. I just love hearing about this. It

Meredith Oke:

really. I mean, there's almost. Almost a

Meredith Oke:

spiritual aspect to it when you think of how

Meredith Oke:

exquisite it all is.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. We're in touch with the

Meredith Oke:

fundamentals of the universe. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Just by existing.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah. Yeah. Is what I kind of say is it's in the

Meredith Oke:

nature of things. All of this stuff is in the

Meredith Oke:

nature of things. In the nature of the universe

Meredith Oke:

is how the universe works. If we let it, we seem

Meredith Oke:

to do our worst best to prevent it.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, there's the key. There's the key, Dr.

Meredith Oke:

Downing. If we let it. And that's a great. That's

Meredith Oke:

a beautiful way to put it, because that is all.

Meredith Oke:

We only have to. We just need to allow it. We

Meredith Oke:

don't actually have to do anything except get the

Meredith Oke:

stuff out of the way. That's. That's disallowing

Meredith Oke:

it.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, absolutely.

Meredith Oke:

Beautiful. So tell us before we wrap, tell us

Meredith Oke:

about your next book. Is it. Is it building on

Meredith Oke:

daylight robbery and the benefits of sunlight?

Meredith Oke:

What can we expect?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: It is, but I mean, it's had to be completely

Meredith Oke:

rewritten. I couldn't just do an update. Back in

Meredith Oke:

the 80s, we figured the bit about cancer, we

Meredith Oke:

Figured that it was that light was good for the

Meredith Oke:

heart. We didn't really understand why, but I, I

Meredith Oke:

mean, that's much better these days. We

Meredith Oke:

understand a lot more about lipids and about

Meredith Oke:

mitochondria. And there were observations that

Meredith Oke:

athletes could improve their performance by

Meredith Oke:

exposing to sunlight and so forth. Very clear

Meredith Oke:

evidence back then, but we didn't really

Meredith Oke:

understand how that was happening. We're only

Meredith Oke:

speculating. Obviously knew about vitamin D and,

Meredith Oke:

you know, cancer and rickets and so on and so

Meredith Oke:

forth. But now that we understand about

Meredith Oke:

mitochondria, we understand that there's a

Meredith Oke:

wavelength, the 8, 10 nanometers, the penetrates

Meredith Oke:

that goes straight into the mitochondria. And

Meredith Oke:

there was a big argument, I guess it still goes

Meredith Oke:

on saying is what's happening there? That it's

Meredith Oke:

cytochrome C oxidase, one of the elements, the,

Meredith Oke:

the mitochondrial electron transport chain,

Meredith Oke:

because that resonates the right frequency. And

Meredith Oke:

then there's a bunch of people saying, no, that's

Meredith Oke:

silly. It's really structured water. And now we

Meredith Oke:

have. You know, it certainly would work by

Meredith Oke:

structured water. I. It may be the structure of

Meredith Oke:

water is not the only thing, but it's definitely

Meredith Oke:

got to be part of it, you know, so all kind of

Meredith Oke:

all of a sudden, except, you know, there seems to

Meredith Oke:

be this latency period, about 50 years for all of

Meredith Oke:

it. We've got. Oh, God, it all fits together. So

Meredith Oke:

that's why the. The magnetic center spear is

Meredith Oke:

downs, really. So I call this another way it all

Meredith Oke:

fits together that.

Meredith Oke:

Right. All the pieces of the puzzle are.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Are falling into place. So it started out with

Meredith Oke:

observing the effect. Like we can clearly see

Meredith Oke:

sunlight helps with this. And now we've gotten to

Meredith Oke:

the explanation of the causative mechanisms of

Meredith Oke:

how.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Yeah, yeah. Mind you, I'd be very careful about

Meredith Oke:

saying, oh, we've got all the answers now.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, absolutely. Yes. That is so true. We are at

Meredith Oke:

the beginning of the beginning of the beginning,

Meredith Oke:

most likely in. Of a new paradigm of

Meredith Oke:

understanding. And, you know, it's thanks to

Meredith Oke:

people like you for, for working in this field

Meredith Oke:

and researching it and bringing it to your

Meredith Oke:

patients. So thank you.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Okay. It's my pleasure. My delight.

Meredith Oke:

Well, I appreciate you sharing and yeah, I would

Meredith Oke:

love to do this again. I think there's lots more

Meredith Oke:

that we could talk about. And thank you and thank

Meredith Oke:

you for your. To the world.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Damien Downing: Right. Okay. Thank you very much.

Meredith Oke:

This has been the Quantum Biology Collective

Meredith Oke:

podcast. To find a practitioner who practices

Meredith Oke:

from this point of view, visit our

Meredith Oke:

directory@quantum quantumbiologycollective.org if

Meredith Oke:

you are a practitioner, definitely take a look at

Meredith Oke:

the Applied Quantum Biology certification, a six

Meredith Oke:

week study of the science of the new human health

Meredith Oke:

paradigm and its practical application with your

Meredith Oke:

patients and clients. We also love to feature

Meredith Oke:

graduates of the program on this very podcast.

Meredith Oke:

Until next time, the QVC.

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