122: Nick Pineault - EMFs & Your Health: What the Science is Really Saying

Meredith Oke: 00:05:00

All right, Nick Pineault, welcome back to the QVC

Meredith Oke: 00:05:03

podcast.

Nick Pineault: 00:05:04

Thanks for having me.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:05

It's my pleasure. And I'm really excited to talk

Meredith Oke: 00:05:08

to you because I've really been wanting to talk

Meredith Oke: 00:05:10

to someone about what's going on in the United

Meredith Oke: 00:05:14

States in terms of the Health and Human Services

Meredith Oke: 00:05:18

situation. I know that you have interviewed

Meredith Oke: 00:05:22

Robert F. Kennedy and are following that very

Meredith Oke: 00:05:25

closely. So I'm like, perfect. I can talk to Nick

Meredith Oke: 00:05:27

about it. I think we're good people to talk about

Meredith Oke: 00:05:32

this because we're both Canadian, so we didn't

Meredith Oke: 00:05:36

vote no.

Nick Pineault: 00:05:38

Exactly.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:39

We are just here to talk about what the current

Meredith Oke: 00:05:41

situation is. So how. How that happened and what

Meredith Oke: 00:05:45

your politics are, I think are sort of beside the

Meredith Oke: 00:05:47

point. If you know our audience, really, their

Meredith Oke: 00:05:52

fundamental priority is, is health and wellness

Meredith Oke: 00:05:55

and taking care of the human energy system in all

Meredith Oke: 00:05:59

the ways that matter. And I think Robert F.

Meredith Oke: 00:06:04

Kennedy being confirmed, like, I have a hard time

Meredith Oke: 00:06:09

even saying it because it seemed so impossible

Meredith Oke: 00:06:12

even just six months ago, being confirmed as the

Meredith Oke: 00:06:16

Director of Secretary of Health and Human

Meredith Oke: 00:06:19

Services for the federal government in the United

Meredith Oke: 00:06:22

States. Could you just speak to the monumental

Meredith Oke: 00:06:27

moment that this represents and also what you

Meredith Oke: 00:06:31

think could be possible with someone like rfk, or

Meredith Oke: 00:06:35

not even someone like rfk, because there's no one

Meredith Oke: 00:06:36

else like him. Like, there's really no one else

Meredith Oke: 00:06:38

in the world with that level of understanding and

Meredith Oke: 00:06:41

experience. So I'd love your thoughts.

Nick Pineault: 00:06:44

Well, that's, in fact, one of the most exciting

Nick Pineault: 00:06:47

questions I've received in the last. In the last

Nick Pineault: 00:06:50

years in interviews, because things are very

Nick Pineault: 00:06:52

exciting. So there's a lot of possibility there.

Nick Pineault: 00:06:55

Of course, RFK Jr. First is an environmental

Nick Pineault: 00:07:00

attorney who fought and won against many

Nick Pineault: 00:07:05

industries that have been found to poison people

Nick Pineault: 00:07:09

or to hide the fact that they were poisoning

Nick Pineault: 00:07:13

people. So industries that really kind of engage

Nick Pineault: 00:07:18

in this sort of savage or dangerous form of

Nick Pineault: 00:07:22

capitalism where, okay, we're here to make money

Nick Pineault: 00:07:25

and, oh, if we get caught, we're going to pay a

Nick Pineault: 00:07:28

little bit, a few millions in compensation, but

Nick Pineault: 00:07:31

it's still worth it, right? So we have dupont, we

Nick Pineault: 00:07:34

have Monsanto, and pretty much the most evil

Nick Pineault: 00:07:38

companies. And that's not, you know, something

Nick Pineault: 00:07:40

religious. It's more. It's even something that

Nick Pineault: 00:07:43

in. In science magazines has been like, they had

Nick Pineault: 00:07:46

a chart of the most evil companies in the world,

Nick Pineault: 00:07:49

and Monsanto was up there because they deny.

Nick Pineault: 00:07:52

They. They use all this, the tactics to try to

Nick Pineault: 00:07:57

change scientific opinions and try to minimize

Nick Pineault: 00:08:00

the problem. And yet we know what they're doing.

Nick Pineault: 00:08:02

And then, of course, it take decades before we

Nick Pineault: 00:08:05

can finally see justice. The same is happening

Nick Pineault: 00:08:08

with telecoms to some extent because of the

Nick Pineault: 00:08:11

denial that's been installed in the industry

Nick Pineault: 00:08:14

since the 1990s, when the first controversies

Nick Pineault: 00:08:19

around cell phones and potential brain tumors

Nick Pineault: 00:08:22

were seen, especially that one Larry King

Nick Pineault: 00:08:25

interview. I cannot recall the year, but it was.

Nick Pineault: 00:08:28

It was a big moment in mainstream media in the

Nick Pineault: 00:08:30

U.S. and after that, the industry really decided

Nick Pineault: 00:08:34

to systematically quit. All the era. The efforts

Nick Pineault: 00:08:38

that had been put to try to work with scientists

Nick Pineault: 00:08:42

and with government to try to make sense of cell

Nick Pineault: 00:08:45

phone safety and how to put, you know, safety

Nick Pineault: 00:08:47

guardrails. They abandoned all that and they

Nick Pineault: 00:08:50

decided to say no instead. What we're going to

Nick Pineault: 00:08:52

say is, there's no effect whatsoever. Everything

Nick Pineault: 00:08:55

is safe. So they decided on a message that is

Nick Pineault: 00:08:59

essentially like, you know, those tobacco

Nick Pineault: 00:09:01

executives that have a hand on the Bible and that

Nick Pineault: 00:09:04

say, oh, no, you know, there's no damage from

Nick Pineault: 00:09:07

smoking, there's nothing there. And nicotine, by

Nick Pineault: 00:09:10

the way, is not addictive. So is the equivalent.

Nick Pineault: 00:09:12

They decided on a PR message that is, of course,

Nick Pineault: 00:09:16

completely fabric. Complete fabrication, a

Nick Pineault: 00:09:18

complete lie. And that's. We're still going

Nick Pineault: 00:09:21

through the consequences of that. When we have an

Nick Pineault: 00:09:25

attorney like RFK Jr that has fought and won

Nick Pineault: 00:09:28

against other corporate giants, and he has also

Nick Pineault: 00:09:31

fought and won against the fcc, the Federal

Nick Pineault: 00:09:34

Communication Commission in the US that's

Nick Pineault: 00:09:37

supposed to regulate the industry of wireless and

Nick Pineault: 00:09:40

wireless safety. But what they're really doing is

Nick Pineault: 00:09:44

they're so completely captured by these interests

Nick Pineault: 00:09:47

that all they're doing is helping telecoms buy

Nick Pineault: 00:09:51

spectrum, which is, you know, you're buying the

Nick Pineault: 00:09:53

right to emit at a certain frequency with your

Nick Pineault: 00:09:56

towers and with your wireless infrastructure. So

Nick Pineault: 00:10:00

they're really more like helping industry roll

Nick Pineault: 00:10:03

out new technologies. So how can they both be

Nick Pineault: 00:10:06

supposed to stop the industry from rolling out

Nick Pineault: 00:10:09

5G, for example, the fifth generation of cell

Nick Pineault: 00:10:12

towers, and also enable 5G. So it's kind of the

Nick Pineault: 00:10:17

wrong organization at this point to determine

Nick Pineault: 00:10:20

health, and we're in a very, very bad spot. But

Nick Pineault: 00:10:24

the reality is that there's lawsuits against the

Nick Pineault: 00:10:29

industry at many levels. RFK Jr. Was representing

Nick Pineault: 00:10:32

many of these lawsuits. In fact, he told me many

Nick Pineault: 00:10:35

dozens of lawsuits that we don't hear about

Nick Pineault: 00:10:37

because they're not publicized. All right?

Nick Pineault: 00:10:39

There's no media attention around them, around

Nick Pineault: 00:10:42

people who claim they've had all sorts of

Nick Pineault: 00:10:44

different tumors because of their phone. And this

Nick Pineault: 00:10:48

is not an isolated incident. You have other

Nick Pineault: 00:10:51

countries where there has been decisions in favor

Nick Pineault: 00:10:56

of cell phone users that have had massive

Nick Pineault: 00:10:59

compensation. In Italy, there are a few cases,

Nick Pineault: 00:11:02

for example, but it's tough because even judges,

Nick Pineault: 00:11:06

I think, and most people representing the law are

Nick Pineault: 00:11:09

in this belief that this could be true. So

Nick Pineault: 00:11:12

there's, you know, on a societal level, if

Nick Pineault: 00:11:14

everyone thinks this is crazy talk and there's no

Nick Pineault: 00:11:16

effect, it will convince the entire like all

Nick Pineault: 00:11:20

levels of government and policymakers and even

Nick Pineault: 00:11:24

lawmakers that there's no issue. So how can

Nick Pineault: 00:11:27

someone claim that their cell phone caused a

Nick Pineault: 00:11:29

tumor for example? Right. So the moment is huge

Nick Pineault: 00:11:32

because now you have RFK Jr. Head of HHS in the

Nick Pineault: 00:11:36

United States. HHS Health and Human Services is

Nick Pineault: 00:11:39

at the top of overlooking the fda. The FDA is

Nick Pineault: 00:11:43

consumer products. Cell phones fell under

Nick Pineault: 00:11:46

consumer products for a while and then they

Nick Pineault: 00:11:49

didn't know what to do about it. So they send

Nick Pineault: 00:11:50

that to ntp. NTP is also part of, you know, under

Nick Pineault: 00:11:55

hhs. NTP is the National Toxicology Program. And

Nick Pineault: 00:11:59

they did cell phone studies, they did find

Nick Pineault: 00:12:01

effects. It was published in 2018. And then all

Nick Pineault: 00:12:04

of a sudden all the follow up studies to these

Nick Pineault: 00:12:07

rat studies that showed that cell phone radiation

Nick Pineault: 00:12:10

can be a carcinogen were abandoned quietly. We

Nick Pineault: 00:12:13

don't know why to this day. But they think it's a

Nick Pineault: 00:12:16

lot of industry pressure and systematic kind of,

Nick Pineault: 00:12:19

you know, the industry trying to do all sorts of

Nick Pineault: 00:12:23

shenanigans to prevent the real independent

Nick Pineault: 00:12:26

scientists that have citizens health in mind to

Nick Pineault: 00:12:29

do their job. And then there's also the FCC that

Nick Pineault: 00:12:32

is under hhs. So now will we see a change in who

Nick Pineault: 00:12:37

is chosen at the FCC as the head of fcc? That

Nick Pineault: 00:12:41

would be a nice first step and something that RFK

Nick Pineault: 00:12:44

Jr told me in the, in, in the interview that's

Nick Pineault: 00:12:47

going to be part of the bonuses for the 2025 EMF

Nick Pineault: 00:12:49

Hazard Summit is that he would literally look at

Nick Pineault: 00:12:53

the top half of all FCC employee and let them go.

Nick Pineault: 00:12:57

So there's a bit cleanup that needs to happen

Nick Pineault: 00:12:59

because in his mind if the FCC in the end we

Nick Pineault: 00:13:03

decide, okay, let's, let's make sure the FCC does

Nick Pineault: 00:13:07

its job when it comes to health. We have to let

Nick Pineault: 00:13:10

go of a culture of no effect. And a culture of

Nick Pineault: 00:13:14

this is, you know, tinfoil hatter stuff. This is

Nick Pineault: 00:13:17

not serious and we don't want to study it and

Nick Pineault: 00:13:20

it's not our job. And we, it's perfectly fine to

Nick Pineault: 00:13:25

have the heads of the FCC always be ex telecom

Nick Pineault: 00:13:29

executives or ex CTIA executive, which is the

Nick Pineault: 00:13:33

lobbying group for the telecom industry. So I

Nick Pineault: 00:13:37

would say for the first time we have a politician

Nick Pineault: 00:13:40

that in his first day at HHS said we're going to

Nick Pineault: 00:13:44

study the impact of certain Childhood injections,

Nick Pineault: 00:13:49

I'll say it that way. So there's that, that

Nick Pineault: 00:13:51

controversy over that. There's a controversy over

Nick Pineault: 00:13:53

pesticides, there's a controversy over fluoride

Nick Pineault: 00:13:56

and water and all sorts of things that could be

Nick Pineault: 00:14:00

behind the chronic disease epidemic. But he also

Nick Pineault: 00:14:03

mentioned, the second item he mentioned is

Nick Pineault: 00:14:04

electromagnetic radiation. So on a public

Nick Pineault: 00:14:07

awareness standpoint, it could be massive. And I

Nick Pineault: 00:14:11

was talking with someone else, another interview

Nick Pineault: 00:14:13

I did right before this recording, and you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:14:17

the person said, I, I don't know if RFK Jr. Is

Nick Pineault: 00:14:21

going to change everything. And the reality is

Nick Pineault: 00:14:24

maybe it won't, but the possibility is there. It

Nick Pineault: 00:14:29

doesn't mean we should change course, stop

Nick Pineault: 00:14:32

spreading awareness. Maybe the change is going to

Nick Pineault: 00:14:35

not come in four years. Maybe it's going to take

Nick Pineault: 00:14:37

still 24 years. I have no idea, to tell you the

Nick Pineault: 00:14:41

truth. But the possibility is there. And at least

Nick Pineault: 00:14:44

we have a politician for the first time that has

Nick Pineault: 00:14:47

litigated for EMFs, knows that it's unsafe and

Nick Pineault: 00:14:50

knows that the safety limits need to change. Will

Nick Pineault: 00:14:53

it change? We'll see. But in the meantime, you

Nick Pineault: 00:14:55

know, I'm just still waking up every day. I'm

Nick Pineault: 00:14:59

doing my work for the moment. You know, I cannot

Nick Pineault: 00:15:01

retire.

Meredith Oke: 00:15:03

Absolutely. And I would argue that this is the

Meredith Oke: 00:15:06

moment to double down. This is the moment for us

Meredith Oke: 00:15:08

all to, to spread the message more clearly and

Meredith Oke: 00:15:14

louder because we have this opening and who

Meredith Oke: 00:15:17

knows, perhaps the embedded nature of all of

Meredith Oke: 00:15:24

these different organizations that make decisions

Meredith Oke: 00:15:27

that end up affecting our lives, like the

Meredith Oke: 00:15:30

companies are, the agencies are captured by the

Meredith Oke: 00:15:33

companies and the, the people are going back and

Meredith Oke: 00:15:37

forth from company to government and back again.

Meredith Oke: 00:15:41

And so nobody has any accountability and nobody

Meredith Oke: 00:15:44

has any liability. So, yes, he has. It's

Meredith Oke: 00:15:48

definitely a, you know, a big mess to untangle,

Meredith Oke: 00:15:51

but the fact that the will is there and that it's

Meredith Oke: 00:15:54

being acknowledged, because to your point, their

Meredith Oke: 00:15:57

strategy so far has to been to just completely

Meredith Oke: 00:16:01

deny there's even a problem. Yes.

Nick Pineault: 00:16:04

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:16:05

And. And I think that's why some people, you

Meredith Oke: 00:16:10

know, feel so strongly that RFK is crazy. Right.

Meredith Oke: 00:16:14

And I watched the commentary on him very closely

Meredith Oke: 00:16:16

during the confirmation hearing, and I could not

Meredith Oke: 00:16:19

find one person who hated him, who had any

Meredith Oke: 00:16:25

understanding of the issues that he represented.

Meredith Oke: 00:16:27

Like, and so it's like he's so far down the

Meredith Oke: 00:16:32

rabbit hole, as you were saying, he sees all of

Meredith Oke: 00:16:35

these cases, so he sees all of the evidence, and

Meredith Oke: 00:16:39

he's, he lives and breathes that every day and

Meredith Oke: 00:16:41

comes to conclusions and then says those

Meredith Oke: 00:16:44

conclusions to a public that's been told that

Meredith Oke: 00:16:48

there's no problem. So, of course he sounds

Meredith Oke: 00:16:50

crazy, but it's because he has all the context

Meredith Oke: 00:16:53

and the public has none.

Nick Pineault: 00:16:56

I agree with you. And someone who put it in the

Nick Pineault: 00:17:00

best way possible, I have to give him credit, is

Nick Pineault: 00:17:03

Brett Weinstein from the Dark Horse podcast. I. I

Nick Pineault: 00:17:06

love that podcast. He's a deep thinker, but it's

Nick Pineault: 00:17:10

also ironic. I'll tell you why in a second. But I

Nick Pineault: 00:17:13

think he said that you have early. You have

Nick Pineault: 00:17:16

people that are sort of alarm sounders, that are

Nick Pineault: 00:17:20

kind of 30 years before their time, and they.

Nick Pineault: 00:17:23

They have a position that is informed, that is

Nick Pineault: 00:17:27

not just, you know, their gut feeling or

Nick Pineault: 00:17:29

anything. I'm included in that. But of course,

Nick Pineault: 00:17:32

before me, there were people in the 1980s that I

Nick Pineault: 00:17:35

know that were already saying, you know, power

Nick Pineault: 00:17:37

lines that we install that are these huge lines

Nick Pineault: 00:17:42

of electricity. We have to be careful because if

Nick Pineault: 00:17:44

we live too close to them, we're going to have

Nick Pineault: 00:17:46

massive problems based on what we understand of

Nick Pineault: 00:17:49

biology. Everyone was kind of scoffing at that.

Nick Pineault: 00:17:52

What are you talking about? Electricity. I mean,

Nick Pineault: 00:17:55

electricity is safe as long as you don't, you

Nick Pineault: 00:17:57

know, shock yourself to death. And now we're

Nick Pineault: 00:18:00

starting to see, yes, it was a problem, but it

Nick Pineault: 00:18:02

was a small problem compared to all the other

Nick Pineault: 00:18:04

problems we're creating with modern tech so close

Nick Pineault: 00:18:07

to our body, cell towers, et cetera. And these

Nick Pineault: 00:18:11

early adopters have a position that sounds so

Nick Pineault: 00:18:14

crazy because it is so far from what the average

Nick Pineault: 00:18:20

layperson knows and even the average, you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:18:23

intellectual or academic thinks or knows for

Nick Pineault: 00:18:28

sure. But yet that's. That's kind of their gut

Nick Pineault: 00:18:30

feeling and uninformed position. For example, you

Nick Pineault: 00:18:35

would have. The academic. Most people would think

Nick Pineault: 00:18:38

that cell phones are completely safe. They. They

Nick Pineault: 00:18:42

think, well, it's been studied. There's no

Nick Pineault: 00:18:44

effect. And they read the cancer society website.

Nick Pineault: 00:18:48

It says the same thing. Okay. It confirms my

Nick Pineault: 00:18:50

understanding. And then I read who. Oh, there's

Nick Pineault: 00:18:55

no effect. Cool. Thank God there's no effect. I

Nick Pineault: 00:18:58

read the fcc. Thank God, there's no effect. So

Nick Pineault: 00:19:00

they've been convinced their entire life that

Nick Pineault: 00:19:02

there's no effect. So when they're presented with

Nick Pineault: 00:19:04

evidence, it sounds so big, it sounds so shocking

Nick Pineault: 00:19:11

that it couldn't possibly be true. And that's

Nick Pineault: 00:19:15

what the point of Bret Weinstein was when he gets

Nick Pineault: 00:19:19

into new topics, like something that he learned

Nick Pineault: 00:19:21

about in the last several years was the impact of

Nick Pineault: 00:19:25

blue light. It couldn't be that we rolled out all

Nick Pineault: 00:19:30

these screens and yet were destroying the health

Nick Pineault: 00:19:35

of the population to some degree at least, or to

Nick Pineault: 00:19:38

some would say a Large degree, at least in a

Nick Pineault: 00:19:40

quantum biology field, because the screens emit

Nick Pineault: 00:19:44

all the wrong frequencies. And no one took care

Nick Pineault: 00:19:47

of making sure that at least the spectrum is

Nick Pineault: 00:19:50

balanced, that we try to minimize these risks.

Nick Pineault: 00:19:53

And essentially this is a big experiment. And he

Nick Pineault: 00:19:56

was shocked when he realized, my God, yes, blue

Nick Pineault: 00:20:00

light is a big problem. Because he talks about

Nick Pineault: 00:20:02

hypernovelty. He's a evolutionary biologist, so

Nick Pineault: 00:20:06

he says, well, this is new. Our mitochondria are

Nick Pineault: 00:20:09

not used to this artificial light. Our cells is

Nick Pineault: 00:20:13

not used to this artificial light. But the thing

Nick Pineault: 00:20:16

is where Brett Weinstein falls short and I think,

Nick Pineault: 00:20:21

I apologize to Brett if he knows, but I don't

Nick Pineault: 00:20:24

think he's aware, that invisible light, right,

Nick Pineault: 00:20:27

this part of the EMF spectrum that communicates

Nick Pineault: 00:20:30

with each other, the cell towers and your phone

Nick Pineault: 00:20:32

and wi Fi and Bluetooth. This radio frequency

Nick Pineault: 00:20:34

radiation also has the same characteristics. It's

Nick Pineault: 00:20:38

hypernovel. We have levels right now of exposure

Nick Pineault: 00:20:43

that is a quintillion times the ancestral

Nick Pineault: 00:20:46

background levels. So that's 10 to the 18th or a

Nick Pineault: 00:20:50

billion times a billion. That's the increase of

Nick Pineault: 00:20:54

radio frequency radiation in the last hundred

Nick Pineault: 00:20:57

years. So the average. And that's not a peak

Nick Pineault: 00:21:02

exposure level from your phone, that's background

Nick Pineault: 00:21:05

level in a city around 0.2 volts per meter. So

Nick Pineault: 00:21:11

the reality is that we have a new agent. It's

Nick Pineault: 00:21:14

tremendously higher, so, so much higher than back

Nick Pineault: 00:21:17

in three, four generations ago that we cannot

Nick Pineault: 00:21:20

even understand the number. There's too many

Nick Pineault: 00:21:23

zeros. So there's that. And then we have the

Nick Pineault: 00:21:26

position in society. Everyone keeps repeating,

Nick Pineault: 00:21:29

everything is safe. And yet when you look into

Nick Pineault: 00:21:32

it, if, if Brett Weinstein looked into it, he

Nick Pineault: 00:21:36

would say, my God, the safety studies are shoddy.

Nick Pineault: 00:21:39

This is very bad science from the get go. The

Nick Pineault: 00:21:43

standards are based on adults, short term

Nick Pineault: 00:21:46

exposure. So where are the standards for kids?

Nick Pineault: 00:21:49

Like if we have kids that use the technology?

Nick Pineault: 00:21:52

Makes no sense. So it makes so little sense when

Nick Pineault: 00:21:56

you start looking into it that just like me, just

Nick Pineault: 00:21:59

like I did in 2016 when I dove into it, it makes

Nick Pineault: 00:22:03

no sense. It's almost impossible to fathom that

Nick Pineault: 00:22:06

it could be that bad. And yet it is.

Meredith Oke: 00:22:12

Yeah, and it is. And it's also, as you were

Meredith Oke: 00:22:16

talking about the, the exposure times

Meredith Oke: 00:22:20

quintillion, you know, I was thinking how

Meredith Oke: 00:22:23

resilient the human body is that you know, our

Meredith Oke: 00:22:25

biology, the fact that we're not even sicker than

Meredith Oke: 00:22:28

we are is amazing considering what we've. We're

Meredith Oke: 00:22:31

asking our biology to deal with on a day to day

Meredith Oke: 00:22:34

basis. And you're talking about the safety

Meredith Oke: 00:22:37

studies. So it's looking at adults, short term

Meredith Oke: 00:22:42

exposure and in reality we have children,

Meredith Oke: 00:22:47

including in some cases infants with long term

Meredith Oke: 00:22:51

exposure. I mean my children go to public school,

Meredith Oke: 00:22:55

they are in a WI fi environment all day long. And

Meredith Oke: 00:22:59

so we have it turned off in our house on a timer

Meredith Oke: 00:23:03

and we have no WI fi in our house when they're

Meredith Oke: 00:23:05

sleeping. But that's not short term exposure. And

Meredith Oke: 00:23:09

are they even looking at WI fi or are they just

Meredith Oke: 00:23:11

looking at cell phones? Because then you know,

Meredith Oke: 00:23:13

you're in a classroom and well, depending what

Meredith Oke: 00:23:17

grade you're in. But for sure in middle and high

Meredith Oke: 00:23:19

school every child in that room has a phone

Meredith Oke: 00:23:22

turned on, probably Bluetooth and WI fi and data

Meredith Oke: 00:23:28

like that is, that is not short term exposure,

Meredith Oke: 00:23:33

that is prolonged daily exposure to, to

Meredith Oke: 00:23:36

developing bodies and minds.

Nick Pineault: 00:23:38

Exactly. And we have. So basically the very

Nick Pineault: 00:23:42

foundation of EMF wireless safety relies on short

Nick Pineault: 00:23:47

term experiments. 40 to 60 minute of exposures,

Nick Pineault: 00:23:51

if I recall correctly, to five monkeys and eight

Nick Pineault: 00:23:54

rats. That's in a paper published in, by a group

Nick Pineault: 00:23:57

called ICB, EMF. And Dr. Paul Hirou, who's in a,

Nick Pineault: 00:24:01

in the Summit, he's from McGill University, he's

Nick Pineault: 00:24:04

a professor of, he has a background in biology

Nick Pineault: 00:24:08

and electrical engineering. So that's why he got

Nick Pineault: 00:24:10

it, that's why he understood that when he was

Nick Pineault: 00:24:13

mandated by Hydro Quebec, a utility company for

Nick Pineault: 00:24:17

electricity that is owned by the state here in

Nick Pineault: 00:24:19

Quebec in Canada, when he was asked to look at

Nick Pineault: 00:24:23

the potential health impacts of power lines on

Nick Pineault: 00:24:27

citizens and whether they should build these

Nick Pineault: 00:24:29

power lines close to people's home or in even in

Nick Pineault: 00:24:32

certain cases they wanted to have the power lines

Nick Pineault: 00:24:34

over people's homes. So you're right underneath

Nick Pineault: 00:24:37

and you're exposed to massive levels of

Nick Pineault: 00:24:40

electricity in the form of a magnetic field that

Nick Pineault: 00:24:44

is always present. So you're living in this,

Nick Pineault: 00:24:47

let's say electricity bubble. And he found health

Nick Pineault: 00:24:51

impacts. That's why he eventually lost his job.

Nick Pineault: 00:24:53

Of course that's kind of what happens to honest

Nick Pineault: 00:24:56

scientists these days in many industries or when

Nick Pineault: 00:24:58

your finding goes against industry. But basically

Nick Pineault: 00:25:00

what he said is that look, these are fantasies or

Nick Pineault: 00:25:05

he called them fairy tales that the industry is

Nick Pineault: 00:25:08

saying about safety. The initial studies were bad

Nick Pineault: 00:25:11

enough that it should have never been rolled out.

Nick Pineault: 00:25:15

This technology or at least the pre market

Nick Pineault: 00:25:18

studying should have taken 10 years. But how can

Nick Pineault: 00:25:21

you stop this technological boom? It was part of

Nick Pineault: 00:25:25

the, the dot com Internet boom. And then towards

Nick Pineault: 00:25:29

the 90s and the early 2000s it was like it was

Nick Pineault: 00:25:33

almost a sort of unstoppable force. So who Are

Nick Pineault: 00:25:37

you to stop this? Great technological advances

Nick Pineault: 00:25:41

and things went very, very fast. And of course in

Nick Pineault: 00:25:44

the midst of all this we still rely on safety

Nick Pineault: 00:25:48

standards that are not even appropriate for

Nick Pineault: 00:25:51

adults. But based on, on a mannequin head that is

Nick Pineault: 00:25:55

the equivalent of a six foot two men, 220 pounds.

Nick Pineault: 00:25:59

So maybe it's hard to tell, but I'm not six foot,

Nick Pineault: 00:26:02

I'm five, four. I'm a small guy, you know, I'm

Nick Pineault: 00:26:04

like the smaller population. So even those

Nick Pineault: 00:26:07

standards are not even appropriate for my brain.

Nick Pineault: 00:26:10

So if I use a phone to my head, I'm even going

Nick Pineault: 00:26:13

over the limit that has been determined in safety

Nick Pineault: 00:26:17

testing. So it makes so little sense on so many

Nick Pineault: 00:26:22

level that it's hard to fathom. But then of

Nick Pineault: 00:26:24

course you have certain engineers that said,

Nick Pineault: 00:26:27

well, what happens if you have a 10 year old?

Nick Pineault: 00:26:29

Well, the 10 year old has a different type of

Nick Pineault: 00:26:31

head, it's smaller than mine, I can tell you

Nick Pineault: 00:26:34

that. And then not only that, but the smaller

Nick Pineault: 00:26:36

children are, the more water content they have in

Nick Pineault: 00:26:39

their body, so they absorb more of this

Nick Pineault: 00:26:42

radiation. So in fact in some studies they, their

Nick Pineault: 00:26:47

spinal Cord will absorb 10 times more radiation

Nick Pineault: 00:26:51

than adults just because of the morphology. And

Nick Pineault: 00:26:54

then their brain will absorb 150 to 200% so

Nick Pineault: 00:26:58

almost twice as much compared to adults. So none

Nick Pineault: 00:27:02

of the safety standards take that into account.

Nick Pineault: 00:27:05

But that's just for phones, right? We have no

Nick Pineault: 00:27:08

safety standards that look at cumulative

Nick Pineault: 00:27:10

exposures from all the sources you mentioned wi

Nick Pineault: 00:27:13

fi in school and then another device that's maybe

Nick Pineault: 00:27:17

in a pocket and maybe I have a Apple watch or

Nick Pineault: 00:27:20

other wireless thing here and I have AirPods on

Nick Pineault: 00:27:24

every day and then I go back home and the phone

Nick Pineault: 00:27:27

is on under my pillow and all this cumulative

Nick Pineault: 00:27:30

exposure, there's big radio silence on it because

Nick Pineault: 00:27:33

again, everything that's being repeated is,

Nick Pineault: 00:27:36

everything is safe. Everything is safe. Not, not

Nick Pineault: 00:27:39

of this matter. Like we don't need the studies

Nick Pineault: 00:27:41

about cumulative exposure because a cumulative

Nick Pineault: 00:27:44

exposure to something that is harmless doesn't

Nick Pineault: 00:27:47

need to be measured. Right? That's right. That's

Nick Pineault: 00:27:49

the.

Meredith Oke: 00:27:50

Why would we study cumulative exposure when the,

Meredith Oke: 00:27:53

when it's completely harmless? It's like how many

Meredith Oke: 00:27:56

breaths did you take today? Exactly. Breathing's

Meredith Oke: 00:27:59

harmless.

Nick Pineault: 00:28:00

Exactly, exactly.

Meredith Oke: 00:28:04

Because it's the other piece that is so tricky

Meredith Oke: 00:28:07

about the non native EMF situation is that, you

Meredith Oke: 00:28:14

know, if I want my family to eat a certain type

Meredith Oke: 00:28:18

of food that's within my control, you know, if I

Meredith Oke: 00:28:21

want to say no to certain big pharma products and

Meredith Oke: 00:28:25

make, you know, have informed consent on all the

Meredith Oke: 00:28:29

you know, when I have to make a medical decision,

Meredith Oke: 00:28:32

especially involving taking drugs or injections,

Meredith Oke: 00:28:34

like that's still relatively within my control.

Meredith Oke: 00:28:38

But as we've been talking about the non native

Meredith Oke: 00:28:40

EMFs, that is like a society level problem. And

Meredith Oke: 00:28:46

aside from having what happens inside my own

Meredith Oke: 00:28:49

home, it just, and this is, it just is so, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:28:55

so daunting, right, to acknowledge the level of

Meredith Oke: 00:28:58

harm that is happening. But at the same time it

Meredith Oke: 00:29:03

is something that we literally can't do anything

Meredith Oke: 00:29:05

about outside of our homes. And even then we're

Meredith Oke: 00:29:09

still depending where our house is located, we

Meredith Oke: 00:29:11

might still be picking up other stuff. And so

Meredith Oke: 00:29:14

that's why I wanted to come back to RFK for a

Meredith Oke: 00:29:17

minute. You know, like I'm just a big proponent

Meredith Oke: 00:29:20

of light, of build the life you want to live,

Meredith Oke: 00:29:22

create the future you want to live in, surround

Meredith Oke: 00:29:24

yourself with people on the same page and like,

Meredith Oke: 00:29:26

who cares what everyone else is doing? But this

Meredith Oke: 00:29:30

has, you know, on a spiritual level, challenging

Meredith Oke: 00:29:34

that approach because we cannot change this

Meredith Oke: 00:29:38

without acknowledging the larger society system

Meredith Oke: 00:29:42

that we live in. And so I just to have someone in

Meredith Oke: 00:29:49

charge who sees that I hope is going to be able

Meredith Oke: 00:29:54

to have a cascading effect on some of this

Meredith Oke: 00:29:56

because it seems to me that as long as the people

Meredith Oke: 00:29:59

in charge have a vested interest in lying to us

Meredith Oke: 00:30:04

about the effects of technology on our bodies,

Meredith Oke: 00:30:09

we're kind of screwed.

Nick Pineault: 00:30:11

Yeah, we are, we are in a sense. So let's think

Nick Pineault: 00:30:15

about this thing, this entire problem in two

Nick Pineault: 00:30:18

different categories. One of them, and let's use

Nick Pineault: 00:30:22

the example of massive use of pesticides, there's

Nick Pineault: 00:30:27

a worldwide problem with pesticide use. We are

Nick Pineault: 00:30:31

destroying species, ecosystems, plants, humans,

Nick Pineault: 00:30:36

everything. We're, you know, dumping I don't know

Nick Pineault: 00:30:39

how many billions of tons of pesticides

Nick Pineault: 00:30:43

everywhere every year. So there's a global

Nick Pineault: 00:30:46

problem we need to think about. And even if you

Nick Pineault: 00:30:49

decide to read Consumer Reports or whatever blog

Nick Pineault: 00:30:54

and you discover, oh my God, there's a ton of

Nick Pineault: 00:30:56

pesticides in my Cheerios glyphosate, so

Nick Pineault: 00:31:00

therefore I will stop eating Cheerios. You're

Nick Pineault: 00:31:03

doing great. You're doing great for consumer

Nick Pineault: 00:31:06

awareness in a sense that if Cheerios loses

Nick Pineault: 00:31:08

market shares, maybe they're going to clean their

Nick Pineault: 00:31:10

act and make sure that throughout their supply

Nick Pineault: 00:31:13

chain everything will be pesticide free. Or

Nick Pineault: 00:31:16

maybe, you know, rely on other sources for their

Nick Pineault: 00:31:19

oats and wheat and whatever ingredients they have

Nick Pineault: 00:31:22

on there. And then of course you're going to have

Nick Pineault: 00:31:24

fewer pesticides in your body. So that's good.

Nick Pineault: 00:31:26

But there's a global problem of pesticides and

Nick Pineault: 00:31:29

there's individual problem of pesticides. The

Nick Pineault: 00:31:32

individual problem of pesticides is okay. What do

Nick Pineault: 00:31:35

I feed my family? What do I feed myself with?

Nick Pineault: 00:31:37

Emfs is the same. You have the global problem you

Nick Pineault: 00:31:40

have there. I mean, it's daunting on me. The

Nick Pineault: 00:31:43

moment I wake up, I have to. I kind of, I think

Nick Pineault: 00:31:47

I'm able to survive in this space because I'm an

Nick Pineault: 00:31:49

eternal optimist. I think things like, I kind of

Nick Pineault: 00:31:53

still believe in fairy tales and I wake up in the

Nick Pineault: 00:31:56

morning and oh, I feel like, you know, EMF

Nick Pineault: 00:31:58

awareness is gonna explode. And it's so nice in

Nick Pineault: 00:32:00

reality, we're really moving in the wrong

Nick Pineault: 00:32:03

direction and we're installing all, all sorts of

Nick Pineault: 00:32:07

satellites around the earth. And now there's

Nick Pineault: 00:32:10

massive problems. The satellites are beaming down

Nick Pineault: 00:32:12

on us. What is it doing, Nick? I get emails,

Nick Pineault: 00:32:15

people very concerned. Should I go outside? Even

Nick Pineault: 00:32:18

someone told me, well, you know, there's

Nick Pineault: 00:32:21

widespread pollution of the air. There's the

Nick Pineault: 00:32:24

satellites now that are blasting me, and there's

Nick Pineault: 00:32:27

this little park in my city. Should I go outside

Nick Pineault: 00:32:30

or stay inside? And I'm like, oh my God. I mean,

Nick Pineault: 00:32:33

this is first. We don't know. But we cannot stop

Nick Pineault: 00:32:38

going outside. That's, that's the crazy part of

Nick Pineault: 00:32:40

it, right? We cannot stop having sunshine and

Nick Pineault: 00:32:44

earthing and, you know, all these things that on

Nick Pineault: 00:32:47

a quantum health level are kind of the

Nick Pineault: 00:32:49

foundations. You still need to get outside and

Nick Pineault: 00:32:54

get natural frequencies. And the irony is, I

Nick Pineault: 00:32:59

think that the more natural frequencies you have

Nick Pineault: 00:33:01

and your body reads this information is going to

Nick Pineault: 00:33:04

help you cope with the chaos out there. That is

Nick Pineault: 00:33:07

the bad information in the environment. So I

Nick Pineault: 00:33:10

would say continue, by all means, continue. Go

Nick Pineault: 00:33:13

outside and go by how you feel. Do you feel

Nick Pineault: 00:33:16

better outside? I do. I still do. Even in

Nick Pineault: 00:33:18

Montreal, even in a city. And I know if I go to a

Nick Pineault: 00:33:20

park, even if that park has been sprayed with

Nick Pineault: 00:33:23

pesticides, turns out I feel even better than in

Nick Pineault: 00:33:26

my home. So somehow, you know, there's good

Nick Pineault: 00:33:29

things that are coming out of it. So global

Nick Pineault: 00:33:31

problem of emf, daunting. We can talk about it in

Nick Pineault: 00:33:35

a political level, policy level, where to place

Nick Pineault: 00:33:38

the towers. We should know. We should roll out

Nick Pineault: 00:33:41

5G. We shouldn't roll out 5G. What to do about

Nick Pineault: 00:33:45

your neighbors and how to change all of society.

Nick Pineault: 00:33:48

But if I tell a parent, that's how, that's what

Nick Pineault: 00:33:51

you have to think about tonight at 7pm after a

Nick Pineault: 00:33:54

kids go to bed, they're going to freak out.

Nick Pineault: 00:33:55

They're going to say, well, my God, I cannot

Nick Pineault: 00:33:57

think about that. Like how Things are going to

Nick Pineault: 00:33:59

change, but it's going to take a lot of time.

Nick Pineault: 00:34:01

Then you have your individual EMF exposure that

Nick Pineault: 00:34:05

you do have, I'd say a decent amount of control

Nick Pineault: 00:34:08

over. Right, because you decide like you as an

Nick Pineault: 00:34:12

adult, not your kids, that's another part of the

Nick Pineault: 00:34:14

discussion. But you as an adult, you can control

Nick Pineault: 00:34:17

what you expose yourself to. If you want to use

Nick Pineault: 00:34:20

technology, there are safer ways to use it. You

Nick Pineault: 00:34:23

can use wires instead of wireless. You can create

Nick Pineault: 00:34:26

distance between the devices and your body. You

Nick Pineault: 00:34:29

can minimize your time of use. And then if you

Nick Pineault: 00:34:32

have control over your kids exposures because

Nick Pineault: 00:34:34

they're younger, then of course you should do it.

Nick Pineault: 00:34:38

And you should try to learn more tips that we

Nick Pineault: 00:34:41

share in the summit, for example, or you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:34:43

just trying to use more ethernet cables. Try to

Nick Pineault: 00:34:47

minimize the time of exposure. Like you said,

Nick Pineault: 00:34:49

turning off the WI fi at night is a great step

Nick Pineault: 00:34:51

because it doesn't interfere with anyone's

Nick Pineault: 00:34:53

business. And yet you are cutting down exposure

Nick Pineault: 00:34:56

for a good seven to eight hours. So right there

Nick Pineault: 00:34:59

you are cutting down how much of this stress

Nick Pineault: 00:35:02

you're getting. Just like if you are cleaning up

Nick Pineault: 00:35:05

your diet. And you know these Cheerios have

Nick Pineault: 00:35:08

pesticides because I read Consumer Reports, I

Nick Pineault: 00:35:11

know better. So now we've switched to an organic

Nick Pineault: 00:35:13

brand and that's a pesticide free brand. But then

Nick Pineault: 00:35:17

you come across an apple that your husband

Nick Pineault: 00:35:20

purchased at the grocery store. Oh no, it's not

Nick Pineault: 00:35:23

organic. There's 50 types of pesticide residue on

Nick Pineault: 00:35:26

there. What do I do? I'm hungry. Well, maybe you

Nick Pineault: 00:35:29

eat apple, right, but so you are still exposed to

Nick Pineault: 00:35:33

some stuff. But maybe then you tell your husband,

Nick Pineault: 00:35:35

okay, well you know what, apples should be

Nick Pineault: 00:35:37

purchased organic from now on and we'll see if

Nick Pineault: 00:35:40

our budget allows it. So all this negotiation

Nick Pineault: 00:35:44

needs to happen with EMFs. It's not either you're

Nick Pineault: 00:35:48

super exposed or unexposed. There's nuances in

Nick Pineault: 00:35:52

there and you have to think about all the

Nick Pineault: 00:35:55

different sources you're exposed to, focusing on

Nick Pineault: 00:35:59

which you have control over and which are you

Nick Pineault: 00:36:02

exposed for not a few minutes here and there, but

Nick Pineault: 00:36:05

hours every day. So for a lot of people it would

Nick Pineault: 00:36:09

be their phone, laptop, workstation, WI fi router

Nick Pineault: 00:36:14

in the home. For a lot of parents and towards

Nick Pineault: 00:36:17

their kids exposure, it will be the tablet that

Nick Pineault: 00:36:19

they hand them or smartphone that they hand them.

Nick Pineault: 00:36:22

And there are a lot of ways that they can

Nick Pineault: 00:36:25

minimize the amount of radiation that this body

Nick Pineault: 00:36:28

is subjected to at a close range. That's really

Nick Pineault: 00:36:31

the key to dangers that are identified in the, in

Nick Pineault: 00:36:35

the medical research is yes, the cell phone

Nick Pineault: 00:36:38

towers have an impact. I cannot tell you. They

Nick Pineault: 00:36:40

don't have an impact. But what are you to do

Nick Pineault: 00:36:43

about it, right? It's, it's difficult, it's a

Nick Pineault: 00:36:46

long term battle. The short term battle is, let's

Nick Pineault: 00:36:49

say you hand your kid a tablet or let me give an

Nick Pineault: 00:36:52

example from you know, we took a trip last

Nick Pineault: 00:36:54

summer, it was to the Outer Banks, we left

Nick Pineault: 00:36:56

Montreal. It took way too many hours of driving,

Nick Pineault: 00:37:00

I cannot recall if it was like 14 or maybe 16

Nick Pineault: 00:37:04

hours. And stopping at many different types of

Nick Pineault: 00:37:07

convenience stores to go to the bathroom and buy

Nick Pineault: 00:37:12

snacks. And it was like a never ending trip. Of

Nick Pineault: 00:37:14

course I used a tablet. But what did I do prior

Nick Pineault: 00:37:17

to that trip? I connected the tablet. I use an

Nick Pineault: 00:37:20

ethernet cable, but you could use WI fi, there's

Nick Pineault: 00:37:23

really no difference. You leave it in the corner

Nick Pineault: 00:37:25

where no one is exposed and, and you pre download

Nick Pineault: 00:37:28

all the movies you can, you pre download series,

Nick Pineault: 00:37:31

you pre download games that can be played

Nick Pineault: 00:37:33

offline. You can, even if you use Spotify or

Nick Pineault: 00:37:36

other music apps, most of them allow you to pre

Nick Pineault: 00:37:39

download playlists. In fact on Spotify, even on

Nick Pineault: 00:37:42

the average tablet nowadays you could have

Nick Pineault: 00:37:44

thousands of songs pre downloaded so much that

Nick Pineault: 00:37:48

Even during these 16 hours to go and 16 hours to

Nick Pineault: 00:37:51

come back, you would still be able to listen to

Nick Pineault: 00:37:54

unique songs and never repeat it, repeat a single

Nick Pineault: 00:37:57

song twice. So it's just an example of, you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:38:02

a simple, almost stupid, stupidly simple habit

Nick Pineault: 00:38:08

that would make all the difference because

Nick Pineault: 00:38:09

instead of streaming all this content for 32

Nick Pineault: 00:38:12

hours where you would be connected to a 4G tower

Nick Pineault: 00:38:15

and the tablet in front of you, kid in the car

Nick Pineault: 00:38:18

would be emitting, emitting, emitting. And

Nick Pineault: 00:38:20

throughout the car, the car is metal on top of

Nick Pineault: 00:38:22

that, it would be bouncing everywhere and

Nick Pineault: 00:38:24

everyone would feel probably more fatigued, more

Nick Pineault: 00:38:27

stress, more oxidative, oxidative stress. So

Nick Pineault: 00:38:33

lower antioxidant, everyone would be, would feel

Nick Pineault: 00:38:35

more stressed overall. That's, this is really

Nick Pineault: 00:38:38

what it's doing to your biology. Instead of that

Nick Pineault: 00:38:40

you have none, zero exposure from that tablet for

Nick Pineault: 00:38:44

two to 32 hours. So it's just a change, a slight

Nick Pineault: 00:38:48

change of habit that makes you say okay, well you

Nick Pineault: 00:38:51

know, it's, I could do that, right? That, that's

Nick Pineault: 00:38:53

how I want parents to feel. Focus on the things

Nick Pineault: 00:38:56

that you, that make you say, okay, I could do

Nick Pineault: 00:38:58

that. And I will not ask the average parent to

Nick Pineault: 00:39:02

please find a way to stop the satellites from

Nick Pineault: 00:39:04

going in the sky, right? Take a rocket ship and

Nick Pineault: 00:39:07

bring them down. I mean it really, that's what

Nick Pineault: 00:39:10

people seem to be focused on, when in reality,

Nick Pineault: 00:39:14

they should focus on their immediate surroundings.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:18

And focusing on that does make a difference.

Nick Pineault: 00:39:22

It does.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:23

Yeah. It's like getting sunshine. Even, you know,

Meredith Oke: 00:39:26

five minutes is better than no minutes. Every

Meredith Oke: 00:39:28

little help. So what I'm hearing you say is that

Meredith Oke: 00:39:31

any way that we can find to mitigate our

Meredith Oke: 00:39:36

exposure, especially by the things that are

Meredith Oke: 00:39:39

closest to our bodies, is going to be helpful.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:42

Even though there are larger issues that we don't

Meredith Oke: 00:39:47

have control over, the things that we do have

Meredith Oke: 00:39:49

control over are going to make a difference. And

Meredith Oke: 00:39:51

so it's like that. That balance of having enough

Meredith Oke: 00:39:55

awareness of the true dangers to being willing to

Meredith Oke: 00:39:58

make even small changes without getting

Meredith Oke: 00:40:01

overwhelmed and feeling defeated and depressed,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:05

for sure.

Nick Pineault: 00:40:06

And just focusing on areas that really matter. So

Nick Pineault: 00:40:10

here's another example I get from concerned

Nick Pineault: 00:40:14

parents. I have a trip coming up, and I'm going

Nick Pineault: 00:40:18

to bring a tablet, and I have no idea how to turn

Nick Pineault: 00:40:21

off the WI fi in a hotel room. We're going to be

Nick Pineault: 00:40:25

staying there one night. And my answer is. This

Nick Pineault: 00:40:28

is. Well, you know, maybe you can overstress over

Nick Pineault: 00:40:33

these details, but I feel like maybe you should

Nick Pineault: 00:40:36

start looking into where is the WI fi router in

Nick Pineault: 00:40:40

your Airbnb apartment You're going to be renting

Nick Pineault: 00:40:42

for two weeks. Right. That would matter more than

Nick Pineault: 00:40:45

the one night in the hotel room. And if the

Nick Pineault: 00:40:48

Airbnb apartment. Oh, I don't. I cannot even find

Nick Pineault: 00:40:51

that router. I have no access to it. Forget about

Nick Pineault: 00:40:54

it. Like, literally ignore it. Try to live your

Nick Pineault: 00:40:58

life. But back home, when this is not your two

Nick Pineault: 00:41:02

weeks of vacation, it's your 50 weeks of living

Nick Pineault: 00:41:05

with your kids and husband and family. Do

Nick Pineault: 00:41:08

something about the WI fi. Maybe you turn it off

Nick Pineault: 00:41:10

when not in use, or maybe you turn off WI fi

Nick Pineault: 00:41:12

permanently, like I did, and use Ethernet cables

Nick Pineault: 00:41:15

to connect your devices. Whatever you choose to

Nick Pineault: 00:41:17

do, this is where you can have the biggest

Nick Pineault: 00:41:20

impact. So, again, it's the same framework as

Nick Pineault: 00:41:24

food, toxins, or even diet overall, if you are

Nick Pineault: 00:41:27

extremely concerned. Oh, Nick, you know, in 1994,

Nick Pineault: 00:41:31

I had a sundae with pasteurized milk and cheap

Nick Pineault: 00:41:34

ice cream and corn syrup on it. Like, how much of

Nick Pineault: 00:41:38

an impact is it having on my epigenetics? I don't

Nick Pineault: 00:41:42

know, but it's in the past, and now you can do

Nick Pineault: 00:41:45

better. And if you want to have a Sunday once per

Nick Pineault: 00:41:47

year, I have a hard time believing that this will

Nick Pineault: 00:41:51

make or break your health. Except, of course, if

Nick Pineault: 00:41:54

you're deadly allergic to certain ingredients or

Nick Pineault: 00:41:56

your body is in very poor health and you have no

Nick Pineault: 00:41:59

resilience of course you know what you're able to

Nick Pineault: 00:42:02

handle. But the reality is that your food

Nick Pineault: 00:42:04

decisions are, you know, over a thousand meals

Nick Pineault: 00:42:08

per year. If you have three per day, focus on the

Nick Pineault: 00:42:11

999 and not the one. Right? So we have, instead

Nick Pineault: 00:42:16

of being neurotic, we have to be practical about

Nick Pineault: 00:42:19

it. And I know it is overwhelming. It is

Nick Pineault: 00:42:21

overwhelming because of the shock that people

Nick Pineault: 00:42:23

feel when they discover EMFs. It is overwhelming,

Nick Pineault: 00:42:26

I would say because of some of the marketing

Nick Pineault: 00:42:29

online that is like, oh, 5G will destroy you.

Nick Pineault: 00:42:33

You're in trouble. And sometimes I want to talk

Nick Pineault: 00:42:37

this way, but I try to just keep it reasonable. I

Nick Pineault: 00:42:42

am concerned over satellites. I am concerned

Nick Pineault: 00:42:46

over, over 5G. I am concerned about new devices

Nick Pineault: 00:42:49

that are stronger and even more disruptive. But

Nick Pineault: 00:42:52

the message always remains the same. It's really

Nick Pineault: 00:42:55

to kind of take a deep breath, try to do your

Nick Pineault: 00:42:58

best and at least don't act or don't believe that

Nick Pineault: 00:43:03

this is a non issue. That would be my problem if

Nick Pineault: 00:43:05

you tell me, oh no, no, it's perfectly safe. I

Nick Pineault: 00:43:08

read who and I read the Cancer Society and I read

Nick Pineault: 00:43:11

the fcc. I would say, well, good luck. But I beg

Nick Pineault: 00:43:15

to differ. Try to minimize exposure. And what

Nick Pineault: 00:43:18

people feel after just minimizing One source of

Nick Pineault: 00:43:23

EMFs is sometimes is surprising. I had this quick

Nick Pineault: 00:43:29

anecdote. I rent cars at, I used to rent car at

Nick Pineault: 00:43:32

Avis manufacturer here in Montreal. And I talked

Nick Pineault: 00:43:36

with Claudi, who is the clerk there and I told

Nick Pineault: 00:43:39

her about my work and of course we start talking

Nick Pineault: 00:43:42

as the months go by. And she said, oh, you know

Nick Pineault: 00:43:44

what you told me about EMFs, you know, and

Nick Pineault: 00:43:46

turning off phone at night. I didn't tell my

Nick Pineault: 00:43:49

husband, but I turned off our phones at night for

Nick Pineault: 00:43:54

a few nights. And the first night is the first

Nick Pineault: 00:43:57

night my husband slept through the night without

Nick Pineault: 00:43:59

having to go and pee in the middle of the night.

Nick Pineault: 00:44:03

It's the first time in 20 years, something like

Nick Pineault: 00:44:07

that. And I'm like, oh my God. And they didn't

Nick Pineault: 00:44:11

change their neighbors habits. They live in a

Nick Pineault: 00:44:15

city so they are exposed to all sorts of things.

Nick Pineault: 00:44:17

So imagine this is the impact from two phones in

Nick Pineault: 00:44:21

your bedroom. The reality is that your body will

Nick Pineault: 00:44:26

accommodate for these exposures and try to find

Nick Pineault: 00:44:29

what is the best sleep I can get given these

Nick Pineault: 00:44:31

exposures. If you remove the exposures, it might

Nick Pineault: 00:44:35

find a new situation that is even more

Nick Pineault: 00:44:37

advantageous for your biology. Okay, well now we

Nick Pineault: 00:44:40

have to kind of modify brain wave patterns and

Nick Pineault: 00:44:43

we're going to slightly tweak things and how

Nick Pineault: 00:44:46

neurotransmitters are emitted and how melatonin

Nick Pineault: 00:44:49

and your biology is going to change very rapidly

Nick Pineault: 00:44:52

within one night. It's going to find, okay, what

Nick Pineault: 00:44:54

is the best situation now? I'm sensing the

Nick Pineault: 00:44:56

environment. It's kind of a little bit calmer.

Nick Pineault: 00:44:58

We're going to try to get deeper tonight. And

Nick Pineault: 00:45:01

turns out they had better sleep. Deeper sleep. So

Nick Pineault: 00:45:04

the reality is that you can get benefits. And

Nick Pineault: 00:45:08

this is what gives me hope is the confirmation

Nick Pineault: 00:45:11

that when you turn off only a few sources, some

Nick Pineault: 00:45:14

people start feeling better. It is an indication

Nick Pineault: 00:45:17

for me that you can get benefits. No matter the

Nick Pineault: 00:45:22

overwhelm around you and these external factors,

Nick Pineault: 00:45:25

you can get benefits when you minimize your own

Nick Pineault: 00:45:28

exposures. And that's, that's good news in a

Nick Pineault: 00:45:31

sense in a, in a topic that is very daunting. You

Nick Pineault: 00:45:34

can make a difference and it does make a

Nick Pineault: 00:45:37

difference even each time you take these small

Nick Pineault: 00:45:39

decisions.

Meredith Oke: 00:45:41

Yes, absolutely. And I, I love the way that you

Meredith Oke: 00:45:44

deliver this message because being a hyper purist

Meredith Oke: 00:45:50

extremist is, is stressful long term. And it also

Meredith Oke: 00:45:55

makes people not want to listen because they're

Meredith Oke: 00:45:58

like, well, I'm not doing all those crazy things

Meredith Oke: 00:46:00

you do. Right. So what I see happen with people

Meredith Oke: 00:46:04

with myself and all the people that, whose

Meredith Oke: 00:46:06

stories I hear and people I work with. Right.

Meredith Oke: 00:46:08

It's like when you're integrating new habits and

Meredith Oke: 00:46:11

new changes. Yes. You are going to be hyper

Meredith Oke: 00:46:13

focused on that issue for a period of time.

Meredith Oke: 00:46:16

Whether it's aligning your circadian rhythms or

Meredith Oke: 00:46:18

lowering your, mitigating your EMF or figuring

Meredith Oke: 00:46:21

out how to feed your family, it will require

Meredith Oke: 00:46:24

extra attention. But once it's integrated as a,

Meredith Oke: 00:46:28

as a normal habit, it's okay to relax and enjoy

Meredith Oke: 00:46:34

life and be optimistic. Speaking of things that

Meredith Oke: 00:46:39

we have control over, something that I wanted to

Meredith Oke: 00:46:42

talk to you about that I think is just such low

Meredith Oke: 00:46:47

hanging fruit in terms of what industry could

Meredith Oke: 00:46:52

potentially maybe I would prefer, I would like

Meredith Oke: 00:46:56

them to be outlawed but you know, have some put

Meredith Oke: 00:46:59

out some information on to warn people is EarPods.

Nick Pineault: 00:47:07

AirPods. Oh yes. Oh yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:47:10

So talk to me about EarPods because they, you

Meredith Oke: 00:47:16

know, they're small, they go in your ear like

Meredith Oke: 00:47:19

right. Like as close to your brain as possible.

Meredith Oke: 00:47:21

Like they seem to be breaking every rule you've

Meredith Oke: 00:47:23

just outlined. They in terms of how to mitigate

Meredith Oke: 00:47:27

emf and all the kids use them. My kids show up

Meredith Oke: 00:47:31

places with their wired, their wired things and

Meredith Oke: 00:47:36

people are like, oh, you guys too cool for

Meredith Oke: 00:47:38

earbuds? You're going retro. And they're like no,

Meredith Oke: 00:47:40

we want EarPods. Our mom won't let us.

Nick Pineault: 00:47:43

Yeah, yeah, well, it would almost be cooler to

Nick Pineault: 00:47:46

say, oh yeah, I'm going like super retro and

Nick Pineault: 00:47:49

have, I don't know, old Walkman, you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:47:53

yellow, yellow Walkman, like wired headset just

Nick Pineault: 00:47:58

for the sake of it. But you know, the difficulty

Nick Pineault: 00:48:01

is that I tried two years ago, my Bose QC35 I

Nick Pineault: 00:48:08

think is the model wired earbuds like these that

Nick Pineault: 00:48:12

are very nice and they have like a feature where

Nick Pineault: 00:48:16

you have, you have a button and you have a noise

Nick Pineault: 00:48:21

canceling function that I like, especially on

Nick Pineault: 00:48:23

airplanes or if you're in loud environments. It's

Nick Pineault: 00:48:26

pretty nice. But these have been completely

Nick Pineault: 00:48:28

discontinued years ago and I had to purchase

Nick Pineault: 00:48:31

these knockoffs, which I realized is probably

Nick Pineault: 00:48:34

not, I think I got sold like a scam because they

Nick Pineault: 00:48:37

don't sound the same. But it was on ebay, so of

Nick Pineault: 00:48:40

course I was kind of asking for it and they were

Nick Pineault: 00:48:43

very cheap. So they were straight from China.

Nick Pineault: 00:48:46

They do the job. But all that to say that society

Nick Pineault: 00:48:49

is moving in a direction where it's tough to find

Nick Pineault: 00:48:52

wired solutions. So I'll give you that it's tough

Nick Pineault: 00:48:56

Even, you know, the average people that don't

Nick Pineault: 00:49:01

have a ton of money would be tempted to go with

Nick Pineault: 00:49:03

wireless earbuds and just to record a video on my

Nick Pineault: 00:49:08

Instagram. I wanted to purchase AirPods to show

Nick Pineault: 00:49:12

them, to show people not to use them. But I found

Nick Pineault: 00:49:16

that an expensive marketing expenses because it

Nick Pineault: 00:49:20

was like two, three hundred dollars. So I went on

Nick Pineault: 00:49:22

Amazon and said, okay, what kind of alternatives

Nick Pineault: 00:49:24

are there for like AirPods? You can find some for

Nick Pineault: 00:49:27

like 29.99 or $40 USD. So very, very cheap. So

Nick Pineault: 00:49:33

all that to say that even kids that are not

Nick Pineault: 00:49:36

necessarily part of a wealthy family or have a

Nick Pineault: 00:49:38

lot of money will be able to have these Bluetooth

Nick Pineault: 00:49:42

earbuds in their ears for extended periods of

Nick Pineault: 00:49:46

time, for hours on end. So of course they're to

Nick Pineault: 00:49:52

be avoided. Now a lot of people will kind of

Nick Pineault: 00:49:54

laugh at that statement, like, okay, well it's

Nick Pineault: 00:49:57

cool that you tell me that, but my kids will not

Nick Pineault: 00:50:00

listen to me, especially if they're older

Nick Pineault: 00:50:02

teenagers. And let's say I completely understand

Nick Pineault: 00:50:05

if the battle is so much that it's going to

Nick Pineault: 00:50:08

disconnect you from your kid, then it becomes a

Nick Pineault: 00:50:11

big issue. Like it cannot be a fight where it

Nick Pineault: 00:50:14

puts you in, it puts your relationship in

Nick Pineault: 00:50:16

jeopardy. So what can you do? Well, there are

Nick Pineault: 00:50:19

some solutions that can be installed on the

Nick Pineault: 00:50:22

AirPod to block 90% of the radiation. That's

Nick Pineault: 00:50:26

called wave block. It has merits, but again is

Nick Pineault: 00:50:30

reducing the problem by 90%, sufficient to assure

Nick Pineault: 00:50:33

safety. We don't, we don't have an answer. We

Nick Pineault: 00:50:36

don't even know. What is the safe level of

Nick Pineault: 00:50:38

wireless exposure right next to the brain? For

Nick Pineault: 00:50:41

all I know, it could be close to zero, which is,

Nick Pineault: 00:50:45

you know, the equivalent of what happened with

Nick Pineault: 00:50:47

certain very toxic substances like lead, for

Nick Pineault: 00:50:51

example, a heavy metal. At one point, lead

Nick Pineault: 00:50:55

exposure was thought to be, you know, slightly

Nick Pineault: 00:50:58

dangerous. Eventually it was very dangerous.

Nick Pineault: 00:51:01

Eventually it was extremely dangerous. And now

Nick Pineault: 00:51:04

even, you know, everyone is kind of admitting,

Nick Pineault: 00:51:07

well, the safe level is zero, right? Ideally. And

Nick Pineault: 00:51:11

we don't have zero. In fact, I found I have

Nick Pineault: 00:51:14

massive levels of lead in my body somehow,

Nick Pineault: 00:51:16

because I don't even know where that's coming

Nick Pineault: 00:51:18

from. But all that to say that, you know, the

Nick Pineault: 00:51:22

more we're going to research this technology and

Nick Pineault: 00:51:24

the more concerning the results will be. I have

Nick Pineault: 00:51:27

no doubt about that. So reducing time of use

Nick Pineault: 00:51:31

might be a strategy to use. So for example, if

Nick Pineault: 00:51:35

your teenagers or kids are still use them behind

Nick Pineault: 00:51:39

your back and they want to use them, at least you

Nick Pineault: 00:51:41

can say, well, when you're home, you use the

Nick Pineault: 00:51:43

wired solutions. That's something. So maybe when

Nick Pineault: 00:51:46

they're home, you know, it might be 12 hours per

Nick Pineault: 00:51:47

day they use the wires or when you're studying,

Nick Pineault: 00:51:50

you're in one place, you're at your office,

Nick Pineault: 00:51:52

you're at your computer, just have a different

Nick Pineault: 00:51:54

pair that is wired at the computer. Why would you

Nick Pineault: 00:51:57

use wireless if you're not, you know, doing a

Nick Pineault: 00:52:00

workout or dancing or moving around? Right. So it

Nick Pineault: 00:52:03

makes no sense to have wireless in these

Nick Pineault: 00:52:05

situations. So try to have, you know, minimize

Nick Pineault: 00:52:09

time of use and try to minimize, help them

Nick Pineault: 00:52:12

minimize their use as much as possible. That's

Nick Pineault: 00:52:14

what I would say. And of course we don't know

Nick Pineault: 00:52:17

what it's doing. But for certain teenagers and

Nick Pineault: 00:52:22

younger patients, from some of the doctors I

Nick Pineault: 00:52:24

interviewed in a summit, they realized that they

Nick Pineault: 00:52:28

had massive problems with airpods in particular,

Nick Pineault: 00:52:31

where they had weird sensations on the skin that

Nick Pineault: 00:52:34

lasted for several days after wearing them. And

Nick Pineault: 00:52:38

for some of them it's tinnitus. They have a

Nick Pineault: 00:52:40

ringing in one ear or even I heard about a

Nick Pineault: 00:52:44

reduction in hearing quality or hearing loss,

Nick Pineault: 00:52:46

partial hearing loss from radio frequency

Nick Pineault: 00:52:49

radiation. It's plausible that it could be

Nick Pineault: 00:52:52

happening. It's certainly not happening with

Nick Pineault: 00:52:54

everyone. And we probably need further studies to

Nick Pineault: 00:52:57

verify. Is it radio frequency radiation or is it,

Nick Pineault: 00:53:00

you know, loud music and things like that that

Nick Pineault: 00:53:03

are other factors that could affect hearing. But

Nick Pineault: 00:53:06

it's plausible to think that hearing could be

Nick Pineault: 00:53:09

impacted. In fact, you have neuroscientist Dr.

Nick Pineault: 00:53:12

Andrew Uberman, that is very popular online and

Nick Pineault: 00:53:15

did touch a little bit about EMS at the beginning

Nick Pineault: 00:53:18

of 2023. And what he said is that one of the main

Nick Pineault: 00:53:21

reasons he decided to go against Bluetooth is

Nick Pineault: 00:53:25

that he knows very, very deeply the biology of

Nick Pineault: 00:53:29

the brain and especially the inner ear and how

Nick Pineault: 00:53:32

hearing happens. And he said there's no way these

Nick Pineault: 00:53:36

structures are not impacted by radio frequency

Nick Pineault: 00:53:38

radiation because these structures are delicate.

Nick Pineault: 00:53:41

So I guess he just has a, a deep understanding

Nick Pineault: 00:53:44

and in his mind he can picture how small the

Nick Pineault: 00:53:47

internal inner ear apparatus is and how delicate

Nick Pineault: 00:53:51

it is and how magnificently complex it is. And he

Nick Pineault: 00:53:56

said, no, I won't put Bluetooth near it. As if,

Nick Pineault: 00:53:59

you know, for him it's sort of something that

Nick Pineault: 00:54:03

just didn't make sense. It's probably impacting

Nick Pineault: 00:54:06

it even if the studies are not there. Right. So

Nick Pineault: 00:54:08

it depends on your personal background. But I

Nick Pineault: 00:54:10

would say, you know, for, for sure there are,

Nick Pineault: 00:54:13

there are health impacts. And if you have

Nick Pineault: 00:54:15

teenagers and they're in an age where you feel

Nick Pineault: 00:54:19

they know about what you do for health and they

Nick Pineault: 00:54:23

might be open to the possibility of, you know,

Nick Pineault: 00:54:25

you have headaches. Have you thought about the

Nick Pineault: 00:54:28

fact that, you know, some people have headaches

Nick Pineault: 00:54:30

with cell phones or these, these wireless

Nick Pineault: 00:54:33

earbuds? Why don't we do a test instead of

Nick Pineault: 00:54:36

saying, no, they're forbidden. Right. Why don't

Nick Pineault: 00:54:38

we do a test together? Let's use Wired solutions

Nick Pineault: 00:54:41

for a week and see how you feel. And maybe

Nick Pineault: 00:54:44

they're going to have curiosity towards that and

Nick Pineault: 00:54:47

say, yeah, I hate to admit it, but the headaches

Nick Pineault: 00:54:52

are gone. If you can find this type of effect,

Nick Pineault: 00:54:55

well, first it's going to help them their entire

Nick Pineault: 00:54:58

life because getting headaches or then relying on

Nick Pineault: 00:55:01

Tylenol and these pharmaceutical products that

Nick Pineault: 00:55:04

are quite harsh on, on the body and especially

Nick Pineault: 00:55:07

toxic to the body in large quantities and over

Nick Pineault: 00:55:10

time, if you can avoid that, that's good. But

Nick Pineault: 00:55:13

also it's going to teach them a lesson that, yes,

Nick Pineault: 00:55:16

the effects might be subtle for some people, but

Nick Pineault: 00:55:19

for some other people they're going to get

Nick Pineault: 00:55:20

symptoms and maybe you should be prudent towards

Nick Pineault: 00:55:24

these exposures. So of course, if you can feel

Nick Pineault: 00:55:26

it, it makes it very, very real for you. So

Nick Pineault: 00:55:29

that's why one of the strategies I recommend for

Nick Pineault: 00:55:32

all families and something we probably repeat a

Nick Pineault: 00:55:34

thousand times during the summit is turning off

Nick Pineault: 00:55:37

WI fi at night, turning off phones. And if you

Nick Pineault: 00:55:39

only do that and you have a few family members

Nick Pineault: 00:55:42

that say, wait a minute, I think my sleep is

Nick Pineault: 00:55:45

better. Well, if they have just a Hint of, wait a

Nick Pineault: 00:55:51

minute, something is off here. I sleep way better

Nick Pineault: 00:55:54

than before or slightly better than before, then

Nick Pineault: 00:55:57

maybe you're gonna be able to have at least this

Nick Pineault: 00:56:01

conversation is going to open their mind to the

Nick Pineault: 00:56:04

possibility that all these sources might have an

Nick Pineault: 00:56:08

impact on their body somehow.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:11

Yes. And that's true. What I see as most helps

Meredith Oke: 00:56:18

people the most is when they have a personal

Meredith Oke: 00:56:21

experience of sleeping better or feeling better.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:23

Right. That's the best motivator. So, one last

Meredith Oke: 00:56:27

thing I wanted to. To talk about staying on the

Meredith Oke: 00:56:30

topic of teenagers is the anxiety epidemic that

Meredith Oke: 00:56:36

teens are experiencing. And to this day, all of

Meredith Oke: 00:56:40

the literature and all of the documentaries that

Meredith Oke: 00:56:43

are doing the rounds amongst the parenting groups

Meredith Oke: 00:56:46

and the schools are entirely focused on the

Meredith Oke: 00:56:50

content of children's lives. So the content of

Meredith Oke: 00:56:54

social media, the content of what people are

Meredith Oke: 00:56:57

saying to them or not saying to them, and the

Meredith Oke: 00:57:02

conversation hasn't quite shifted to not just

Meredith Oke: 00:57:06

what they're looking at on these devices, but the

Meredith Oke: 00:57:08

effects of the devices themselves. So before we

Meredith Oke: 00:57:11

just to wrap up, could you highlight the

Meredith Oke: 00:57:16

connection to our mental health and specifically

Meredith Oke: 00:57:20

why children and teenagers are experiencing such

Meredith Oke: 00:57:24

high levels of anxiety and insomnia?

Nick Pineault: 00:57:27

Yeah. There is a very good session on EMF

Nick Pineault: 00:57:32

impacts, especially on teenagers, and especially

Nick Pineault: 00:57:35

focused on children's cognition and behavior by

Nick Pineault: 00:57:39

Bonnie Tucker in the Summit. And she. I did not

Nick Pineault: 00:57:42

know Bonnie. A few months ago she wrote to me,

Nick Pineault: 00:57:45

she said, I'm a public health researcher. I've

Nick Pineault: 00:57:48

done basically an entire review of the scientific

Nick Pineault: 00:57:51

literature. And it's very bad. Like, we know for

Nick Pineault: 00:57:56

sure that there's something there when it comes

Nick Pineault: 00:57:59

to the link between exposure and then the

Nick Pineault: 00:58:04

impacts, like add, adhd, but also depression,

Nick Pineault: 00:58:08

anxiety, panic attacks and that whole mental

Nick Pineault: 00:58:12

health crisis. So what she shared with me, for

Nick Pineault: 00:58:14

example, in the interview, is that we have 96% of

Nick Pineault: 00:58:17

children have cell phones. So this is a complete

Nick Pineault: 00:58:22

shift of the patterns of exposures compared to 20

Nick Pineault: 00:58:27

years ago, or let's say even going back 30 years

Nick Pineault: 00:58:30

ago. I remember my dad in 1994, or let's say

Nick Pineault: 00:58:35

1995, 30 years ago, as we're speaking, he used

Nick Pineault: 00:58:39

these big brick phones from Nokia, if you can

Nick Pineault: 00:58:42

recall them. It's completely, it's almost, it's

Nick Pineault: 00:58:46

almost funny how they look because they, they

Nick Pineault: 00:58:48

weighed like a thousand pounds or something and

Nick Pineault: 00:58:52

you couldn't move them around. And yet this was

Nick Pineault: 00:58:54

like the bulk of our exposure back then was

Nick Pineault: 00:58:56

adults, of course, and business people. But now

Nick Pineault: 00:58:59

we have children that have these exposures. And

Nick Pineault: 00:59:02

when she talked a little bit about the science,

Nick Pineault: 00:59:05

for her, it was very, very clear that there's a

Nick Pineault: 00:59:09

link between EMFs and then cognition. So, for

Nick Pineault: 00:59:14

example, she examined around 50 studies from

Nick Pineault: 00:59:18

around the world. 12 were focused on cognitive

Nick Pineault: 00:59:20

impact and 38 on behavioral and health impacts.

Nick Pineault: 00:59:24

And out of the cognition studies, 10 out of 11

Nick Pineault: 00:59:29

showed a statistical significance between EMF

Nick Pineault: 00:59:33

exposure and cognitive decline in teenagers. And

Nick Pineault: 00:59:36

it was like, it was almost like, you know, I know

Nick Pineault: 00:59:39

these things. But I said, wait a minute, it's

Nick Pineault: 00:59:42

like the vast majority of studies are showing

Nick Pineault: 00:59:45

problems. And she said, well, not only that, when

Nick Pineault: 00:59:48

I looked at the behavioral and health impact

Nick Pineault: 00:59:52

studies, 34 out of 38 studies showed statistical

Nick Pineault: 00:59:56

significance between higher exposure groups and

Nick Pineault: 01:00:00

various symptoms. She talked about inattention

Nick Pineault: 01:00:03

issues, behavioral problems of all sorts,

Nick Pineault: 01:00:06

hyperactivities, headaches, sleep problems. And

Nick Pineault: 01:00:10

she said that the odds ratio, what she says here,

Nick Pineault: 01:00:15

I'm just reading from the transcript, not to

Nick Pineault: 01:00:17

butcher it, the odds ratio in these studies are

Nick Pineault: 01:00:19

particularly striking. She said, for example,

Nick Pineault: 01:00:22

with sleep problems, the odds range from 1.9 to

Nick Pineault: 01:00:25

5.9. So, right. You have almost six times more

Nick Pineault: 01:00:30

likely that people are going to get problems with

Nick Pineault: 01:00:32

higher exposures compared to control. So for her,

Nick Pineault: 01:00:36

it was very, very shocking that, you know, how,

Nick Pineault: 01:00:40

how come this is not communicated with the

Nick Pineault: 01:00:42

public? It's not like we have something to prove

Nick Pineault: 01:00:45

anymore. And it's, it's a good, you know, it's

Nick Pineault: 01:00:48

quite dense because we go through all the

Nick Pineault: 01:00:50

studies, but also it's important because it's not

Nick Pineault: 01:00:54

the topic of emf. Again, it goes back to Bret

Nick Pineault: 01:00:57

Weinstein and why were, why it's almost tough to

Nick Pineault: 01:01:01

get into EMFs and to review the literature is

Nick Pineault: 01:01:04

that the evidence is so clear that there's a

Nick Pineault: 01:01:07

problem for children, for teenagers, for brain

Nick Pineault: 01:01:11

tumors, for fertility, for impacts on nature. I

Nick Pineault: 01:01:16

could give you 12 to 15 different research silos

Nick Pineault: 01:01:20

where the level of evidence is so high that we

Nick Pineault: 01:01:23

are like, wait a minute, why, why isn't that in

Nick Pineault: 01:01:26

the news? Or why isn't there, you know, massive

Nick Pineault: 01:01:31

urgent action being done? It should be a scandal

Nick Pineault: 01:01:34

on so many levels. And yet, you know, for all the

Nick Pineault: 01:01:38

reasons we discussed, it's like pushed to the

Nick Pineault: 01:01:42

wayside or, oh, well, we need more studies. Do

Nick Pineault: 01:01:46

we, do we need more? We do need more studies to

Nick Pineault: 01:01:48

elicit some things, but we don't need. Most

Nick Pineault: 01:01:52

scientists would tell me, we don't need more

Nick Pineault: 01:01:54

studies to show harm. Right? We know the harm is

Nick Pineault: 01:01:57

happening. And that's before 5G, even before Wi

Nick Pineault: 01:02:01

Fi, and even at 2G and 3G and barely any WI fi,

Nick Pineault: 01:02:05

we had already early indications. What we need to

Nick Pineault: 01:02:10

do is to start reducing Global exposure at a

Nick Pineault: 01:02:15

societal level that I talked about and also

Nick Pineault: 01:02:17

individual level. The individual level would

Nick Pineault: 01:02:22

already is communicated by certain governments

Nick Pineault: 01:02:25

that tell citizens to. Well, if you can, they can

Nick Pineault: 01:02:30

be very soft about it. If you can, try to

Nick Pineault: 01:02:32

minimize exposure by doing the following. Have

Nick Pineault: 01:02:35

wired solutions, try to turn off devices when not

Nick Pineault: 01:02:38

in use, try not to carry a phone in the pocket,

Nick Pineault: 01:02:41

things like that, so that could be communicated

Nick Pineault: 01:02:43

with citizens. In fact, some scientists tried to

Nick Pineault: 01:02:47

have at the point of sale in Berkeley,

Nick Pineault: 01:02:49

California, a warning that said, if you want to

Nick Pineault: 01:02:53

minimize your EMF exposure, not even the cell

Nick Pineault: 01:02:55

phone is dangerous or anything like that. It was

Nick Pineault: 01:02:57

very soft, it was very laid back. If you want to

Nick Pineault: 01:03:00

minimize RF exposure, radio frequency exposure,

Nick Pineault: 01:03:03

do the following things. And the signs were up

Nick Pineault: 01:03:06

for, I think over a year. And eventually the

Nick Pineault: 01:03:09

industry sued the OR tried to go against this

Nick Pineault: 01:03:15

ordinance from the Berkeley Public Health. And

Nick Pineault: 01:03:18

they won. And they won, saying that you are kind

Nick Pineault: 01:03:24

of making our consumers fearful over these

Nick Pineault: 01:03:29

exposures that are perfectly safe and therefore

Nick Pineault: 01:03:34

you're kind of talking in a way that is

Nick Pineault: 01:03:38

detrimental to our bottom line. And they won.

Nick Pineault: 01:03:41

They won.

Meredith Oke: 01:03:42

Wow.

Nick Pineault: 01:03:43

It was ludicrous. It was ludicrous that they won

Nick Pineault: 01:03:46

because these are precautionary measures. This is

Nick Pineault: 01:03:50

preventative health. You're not saying your cell

Nick Pineault: 01:03:53

phone will kill you. You're not saying your cell

Nick Pineault: 01:03:55

phone will give you cancer. Maybe we should. But

Nick Pineault: 01:03:58

anyway, that's not what they're saying. They're

Nick Pineault: 01:04:00

saying if you want to minimize your exposure, do

Nick Pineault: 01:04:04

the following things. And it was even that was

Nick Pineault: 01:04:07

too threatening to the industry. So that's the

Nick Pineault: 01:04:11

level of aggressivity we're going to see in the

Nick Pineault: 01:04:14

next decades as we try to take this beast of an

Nick Pineault: 01:04:19

industry and then put them back, give them

Nick Pineault: 01:04:22

guardrails. Now you're going to move towers away

Nick Pineault: 01:04:25

from people's home. Now you're going to make your

Nick Pineault: 01:04:27

cell phones emit 10,000 times less within 10

Nick Pineault: 01:04:31

years by doing the following engineering things

Nick Pineault: 01:04:35

that probably could be done, by the way, all of

Nick Pineault: 01:04:38

this could be made safer. Now what's going to

Nick Pineault: 01:04:40

happen is that if you have no users connected to

Nick Pineault: 01:04:43

a cell tower in the middle of nowhere, the cell

Nick Pineault: 01:04:46

tower will completely turn off or emit a beacon

Nick Pineault: 01:04:49

signal that is so small that it's almost

Nick Pineault: 01:04:51

undetectable. Now, the WI fi routers will emit

Nick Pineault: 01:04:57

the minimum amount possible of radiation rather

Nick Pineault: 01:05:00

than the maximum. All of these things can be

Nick Pineault: 01:05:03

done. But at the moment, they hold on for their

Nick Pineault: 01:05:07

dear life to this story, this fairy tale of no

Nick Pineault: 01:05:12

impact, no effect. Everything is safe, and that

Nick Pineault: 01:05:15

way they don't have to redesign cell phones. They

Nick Pineault: 01:05:19

don't have to move the towers away. They don't

Nick Pineault: 01:05:21

have to think about safety. They don't have to

Nick Pineault: 01:05:24

start competing on safety with other phone

Nick Pineault: 01:05:28

manufacturers or telecoms. So it's very

Nick Pineault: 01:05:31

convenient to keep things the same. It's so

Nick Pineault: 01:05:34

convenient and in fact each year that they are

Nick Pineault: 01:05:37

able to prevent us from changing safety

Nick Pineault: 01:05:41

guidelines. They make trillions of dollars that

Nick Pineault: 01:05:45

they would have lost in lost opportunity or in

Nick Pineault: 01:05:49

being forced to do better research and

Nick Pineault: 01:05:51

development. So that's how costly will be to

Nick Pineault: 01:05:54

these industries to rethink the wireless

Nick Pineault: 01:05:59

infrastructure, rethink the technology, the

Nick Pineault: 01:06:02

consumer products, the. Everything needs to be

Nick Pineault: 01:06:06

scrapped in some sense and redone. Imagine what

Nick Pineault: 01:06:12

this represents or probably I don't even know how

Nick Pineault: 01:06:14

many trillions of dollars it will cost to and

Nick Pineault: 01:06:17

who's going to pay for it. And then not talking

Nick Pineault: 01:06:21

about maybe the trillions of dollars that are

Nick Pineault: 01:06:24

going to be given away in compensation if they

Nick Pineault: 01:06:28

admit their guilt. So there's many, many levels

Nick Pineault: 01:06:33

to this story. But if they start admitting that

Nick Pineault: 01:06:38

things are not safe, it's a whole another story

Nick Pineault: 01:06:43

and kind of worms for the industry. And so far

Nick Pineault: 01:06:46

this is why I see, see this is why I think that

Nick Pineault: 01:06:50

the culture of no effect is so important to them.

Nick Pineault: 01:06:54

It's a matter of liability and of keeping

Nick Pineault: 01:06:59

themselves in the dark is so convenient on a

Nick Pineault: 01:07:01

human standpoint. Many people in the industry

Nick Pineault: 01:07:05

don't want to think about it, they don't want to

Nick Pineault: 01:07:07

hear about it and they wouldn't feel good working

Nick Pineault: 01:07:10

for the industry if they admitted to themselves

Nick Pineault: 01:07:13

that, that this is harmful.

Meredith Oke: 01:07:17

Yeah, there's, there's a lot to change, but it

Meredith Oke: 01:07:20

sounds like, you know, the science is there, the

Meredith Oke: 01:07:23

evidence is there. It's, I think now just up to

Meredith Oke: 01:07:26

the people to, to, you know, we need a paradigm

Meredith Oke: 01:07:30

shift. It's like 100% and I, I think it can

Meredith Oke: 01:07:34

happen. And I feel, I truly feel on an energetic

Meredith Oke: 01:07:38

level that we're on the cusp of, of things

Meredith Oke: 01:07:40

shifting and becoming very, very different. And I

Meredith Oke: 01:07:44

really appreciate all the work you've done over

Meredith Oke: 01:07:46

the last eight years, Nick, to make this

Meredith Oke: 01:07:48

information available, accessible, digestible,

Meredith Oke: 01:07:52

actionable. It's a behemoth and bless you for

Meredith Oke: 01:07:56

taking it on. And I encourage everyone to attend

Meredith Oke: 01:08:01

the EMF Hazard Summits this year. EMF hazard

Meredith Oke: 01:08:05

summer it's 2025. The link is in the show notes.

Meredith Oke: 01:08:08

I'll be emailing out links to sign up. It's just

Meredith Oke: 01:08:13

such an important topic and I feel like the more

Meredith Oke: 01:08:15

of us that are somewhat informed, we just need to

Meredith Oke: 01:08:21

reach A critical mass and change will be

Meredith Oke: 01:08:25

forthcoming. Especially since we now have a

Meredith Oke: 01:08:28

sympathetic figure in a decision making role,

Meredith Oke: 01:08:31

which is just incredible. As you said, the world

Meredith Oke: 01:08:35

is filled with infinite possibilities.

Nick Pineault: 01:08:37

I agree 100%. And I'm going to say this in

Nick Pineault: 01:08:40

closing. I was very, very emotional when I heard

Nick Pineault: 01:08:45

RFK Jr talk about electromagnetic radiation. But

Nick Pineault: 01:08:49

I was even. I rarely get emotional about my work

Nick Pineault: 01:08:52

in that way. There are certain things that touch

Nick Pineault: 01:08:54

me, like people that are getting very sick from

Nick Pineault: 01:08:57

the technology, of course, and some of them write

Nick Pineault: 01:08:59

to me and sometimes I just tear up. It's just

Nick Pineault: 01:09:02

part of it. I'm a human being, you know, and

Nick Pineault: 01:09:04

it's, it's, it's tough to see people that are

Nick Pineault: 01:09:06

struggling. But also one moment was especially

Nick Pineault: 01:09:10

important for me two years ago. Elaine O'Connor

Nick Pineault: 01:09:13

from the EM Radiation Trust, if I recall

Nick Pineault: 01:09:17

correctly, she is someone who has been an

Nick Pineault: 01:09:20

activist for, I think it's probably closer to 30

Nick Pineault: 01:09:24

years, so way longer than me. You know, in the

Nick Pineault: 01:09:28

very early days of cell phone safety and these

Nick Pineault: 01:09:30

things in the UK, she told me that in the early

Nick Pineault: 01:09:33

2000s she put together a conference with industry

Nick Pineault: 01:09:37

people, with scientists, with Dr. And she was

Nick Pineault: 01:09:41

very hopeful that things would change. It was

Nick Pineault: 01:09:44

massive. You know, people meeting in the UK with

Nick Pineault: 01:09:47

government officials and she lobbied in the UK

Nick Pineault: 01:09:51

government. And she spent years trying to make

Nick Pineault: 01:09:53

things happen and all of a sudden nothing

Nick Pineault: 01:09:57

happened. And it was heartbreaking to hear it

Nick Pineault: 01:10:01

from her that, you know, she tried to go that

Nick Pineault: 01:10:05

route of not the grassroots movement but more

Nick Pineault: 01:10:09

like doing, you know, trying to convince

Nick Pineault: 01:10:12

governments and going through committees and

Nick Pineault: 01:10:15

things like that, and nothing of substance

Nick Pineault: 01:10:18

happened. And it was, you know, all that time

Nick Pineault: 01:10:22

that she spent, I have no doubt that it led to

Nick Pineault: 01:10:24

something, but not nearly enough to her liking,

Nick Pineault: 01:10:27

like where it couldn't move the needle. And then

Nick Pineault: 01:10:30

she said this, she said, what you're doing with

Nick Pineault: 01:10:32

the EMF Hazard Summit is what I should have done

Nick Pineault: 01:10:35

at the beginning because now I realize, geez,

Nick Pineault: 01:10:38

it's one of these topics. It looks like it's only

Nick Pineault: 01:10:41

going to be grassroots that can move the needle.

Nick Pineault: 01:10:44

I feel like maybe she was undermining herself

Nick Pineault: 01:10:47

saying that. And I think it's going to be legal

Nick Pineault: 01:10:50

activism, lobbying. But consumers, people

Nick Pineault: 01:10:55

listening to the MF Hazard Summit, people

Nick Pineault: 01:10:57

listening to this interview, whether you purchase

Nick Pineault: 01:11:00

something or not is irrelevant. People that have

Nick Pineault: 01:11:02

conversations with their family members, that

Nick Pineault: 01:11:05

have conversations that are sometimes very

Nick Pineault: 01:11:07

difficult, let's admit this will change things

Nick Pineault: 01:11:11

faster or more likely to make a big change

Nick Pineault: 01:11:14

compared to people trying to lobby the government

Nick Pineault: 01:11:18

and things like that. Maybe with RFK Jr. Is going

Nick Pineault: 01:11:20

to change. But either way, let's not wait on one

Nick Pineault: 01:11:24

savior to, you know, fix the entire thing. We

Nick Pineault: 01:11:27

need to continue the conversation and like you

Nick Pineault: 01:11:29

said, double down on how motivated we feel to

Nick Pineault: 01:11:34

raise awareness, to protect ourselves and then to

Nick Pineault: 01:11:37

talk about it. And to make it a normal topic of

Nick Pineault: 01:11:40

conversation, I think is also important. A topic

Nick Pineault: 01:11:43

that is quite often, you know, a side issue that

Nick Pineault: 01:11:47

is considered fringe. Tinfoil Hatter there's no

Nick Pineault: 01:11:51

serious scientists that have ever said there's

Nick Pineault: 01:11:53

EMF dangers kind of thing. And all the BS I see

Nick Pineault: 01:11:56

online because people are really convinced that

Nick Pineault: 01:11:59

there's no effect. This is what they're being

Nick Pineault: 01:12:01

told and what they've been told their entire

Nick Pineault: 01:12:03

life. So let's put an end to this and at least

Nick Pineault: 01:12:06

recognize that there are concerns we can argue

Nick Pineault: 01:12:09

about. How big is the concern? I would say pretty

Nick Pineault: 01:12:12

big. So some others would say, oh, it's slight,

Nick Pineault: 01:12:15

you know, a small concern, but at least there is

Nick Pineault: 01:12:18

a concern. There is something that needs to be

Nick Pineault: 01:12:20

fixed and it's through awareness and spreading

Nick Pineault: 01:12:24

this information that things are going to change.

Nick Pineault: 01:12:26

And that's my angle on this. That's why I put

Nick Pineault: 01:12:29

this summit together. I'm going to continue to be

Nick Pineault: 01:12:31

here for years. Because we're very far from at

Nick Pineault: 01:12:35

least a very decent fraction of the population,

Nick Pineault: 01:12:39

at least in the western world that understand

Nick Pineault: 01:12:42

these things and then demand from the companies

Nick Pineault: 01:12:45

that they change their act and they put safer

Nick Pineault: 01:12:48

options on the market.

Meredith Oke: 01:12:50

Absolutely. Just like if you, if you're health

Meredith Oke: 01:12:53

minded and someone walks in and sees your

Meredith Oke: 01:12:56

cupboards filled with Oreos and Fruit Loops,

Meredith Oke: 01:12:58

they're going to be like, I thought you were into

Meredith Oke: 01:12:59

health. We just got to live it.

Nick Pineault: 01:13:01

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 01:13:01

And yeah, absolutely. Every voice matters, every

Meredith Oke: 01:13:04

person listening. You matter. Please go to the

Meredith Oke: 01:13:06

summit, listen to that. And even if you just take

Meredith Oke: 01:13:09

away a few insights that you are then able to

Meredith Oke: 01:13:13

talk about with your community, with your

Meredith Oke: 01:13:16

friends, with your family, with people you know,

Meredith Oke: 01:13:18

it all makes a difference. It's the. Yes, it's

Meredith Oke: 01:13:21

that ripple out from the people that is going to

Meredith Oke: 01:13:24

tip things over and support at the top is

Meredith Oke: 01:13:26

amazing. But I'm totally with you, Nick, so let's

Meredith Oke: 01:13:29

keep going everyone. It's a, it's an amazing

Meredith Oke: 01:13:32

timeline we're living in. I wonder what's going

Meredith Oke: 01:13:34

to happen next.

Nick Pineault: 01:13:36

For sure. I'm watching it like a movie. You know,

Nick Pineault: 01:13:38

I have popcorn every day these days with hearings

Nick Pineault: 01:13:41

and politics and controversies and all of this.

Nick Pineault: 01:13:44

And I'm like, oh my God, what a media frenzy we

Nick Pineault: 01:13:49

are in. It's maddening and sometimes I have to

Nick Pineault: 01:13:51

just turn up the computer and go sit on my sofa

Nick Pineault: 01:13:54

and relax. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is too

Nick Pineault: 01:13:56

much. There's so much happening. But I hope that

Nick Pineault: 01:13:58

in the midst of it all, you can find a little bit

Nick Pineault: 01:14:00

of time for the EMF Hazard Summit. Find a few

Nick Pineault: 01:14:02

talks to watch, and I know you're going to get a

Nick Pineault: 01:14:06

ton of value from it. It is my hope, at least.

Meredith Oke: 01:14:09

Yeah, no, it's fantastic. I really, really

Meredith Oke: 01:14:12

recommend everyone go and sign up for it. Nick,

Meredith Oke: 01:14:16

thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to talk

Meredith Oke: 01:14:18

to you. I really, really enjoy your work and our

Meredith Oke: 01:14:21

conversations. Thanks for being here.

Nick Pineault: 01:14:23

Thanks for having me. It's been a blast. Thank

Nick Pineault: 01:14:25

you.