Episode 123

123: Anders Bolling - Escaping Misery Bias: How This Journalist Found Truth Beyond Mainstream Media

📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube

"We are 8 billion different angles on reality and we should respect each other and listen to each other," says Anders Bolling, former mainstream journalist turned alternative media creator, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to explore the evolving landscape of journalism, consciousness, and truth-seeking. After 22 years at Sweden's largest newspaper, Bolling left to pursue deeper questions, launching his own podcast and YouTube channel to discuss topics often overlooked by traditional media.

In this episode, Anders delves into the challenges of discernment in today's information-saturated world, the importance of maintaining neutrality when examining different perspectives, and the exciting developments in consciousness research that bridge science and spirituality. He shares insights on the UFO phenomenon, the role of psychics in military operations, and why he believes the next few years will bring significant shifts in how we perceive reality.

Tune in to learn why Anders thinks "the big secret of the universe is that everything's going to be fine," and how cultivating personal discernment can help navigate the messy but fascinating times ahead.

5 Key Takeaways

1. Cultivate discernment when consuming media. Don't blindly trust any single source - look for the "golden thread of truth" in different perspectives.

2. Take breaks from the news cycle. Limit consumption to stay informed without becoming overwhelmed. This helps maintain mental health and clarity.

3. Meditate or sit in stillness regularly, even for just 5-10 minutes. This improves discernment and helps process information more clearly.

4. Be open to paradigm shifts in science, health, politics and other domains. Old models are breaking down as new discoveries emerge.

5. Trust your own judgment and intuition when evaluating information. Don't outsource your critical thinking to authorities or media outlets.

Memorable Quotes

"We are all aspects of source, if you will, and we have much greater capacity than we are led to believe. If we just listen to our inner voices and our higher selves and sit in stillness five or 10 minutes now and then and just let things sink in and don't think actively about them with your brain, but just let them sink in."

"The big secret of the universe is that everything's going to be fine."

"Trust your own judgment and your discernment. Don't follow the news 24/7. You can follow it a little bit if you want to know what's happening, but not too much because it's not good for your health. Check things for yourself if you have the time and think for yourself."

Connect with GUEST

Website: https://andersbolling.com

Socials: linktr.ee/andersbolling

FrontierNet: https://frontiernet.org

Resources Mentioned

Mind the Shift YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MindtheShift

QBC Resources

To receive our Podcast Guide, where we break episodes down by category & to receive updates from us, subscribe to our email list here: https://qbcpod.com

You can join the FREE QBC online community here: https://qbcpod.com/freecommunity

Instagram: https://instagram.com/quantumbiologycollective

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X/Twitter: https://x.com/IAQB_Foundation

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Transcript
Meredith Oke:

Welcome to the QVC podcast. I am really looking

Meredith Oke:

forward to this conversation.

Anders Bolling:

Thank you for having me. Me too. I'm also looking

Anders Bolling:

forward to this conversation.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. So we had a delightful discussion when I

Meredith Oke:

was on Mind the Shift recently, and I sent that

Meredith Oke:

link out to my audience and they were all very

Meredith Oke:

excited to find your show, the type of thing that

Meredith Oke:

they all really appreciate. I wanted to dive into

Meredith Oke:

your story because on this podcast we. We talk to

Meredith Oke:

a lot of doctors and we, you know, health

Meredith Oke:

professionals who have broken out of kind of the

Meredith Oke:

mainstream, you know, infrastructure that they

Meredith Oke:

came up in, whether it's. In whether it's

Meredith Oke:

allopathic or even alternative. Right. There's

Meredith Oke:

just so many new paradigms of health opening up

Meredith Oke:

that we tend to talk to people who are more

Meredith Oke:

breaking out of whatever it was that's no longer

Meredith Oke:

serving them or answering their questions. And

Meredith Oke:

you have done a similar. You've been on a similar

Meredith Oke:

path, but in the area of journalism, which I

Meredith Oke:

think is crucial because that is how we learn. We

Meredith Oke:

get all of our information, most of us. So tell

Meredith Oke:

me a little bit about what kind of journalism you

Meredith Oke:

did when you were a, quote, unquote, regular

Meredith Oke:

journalist and then we'll start sort of explore

Meredith Oke:

where you are now.

Anders Bolling:

Sure. Thank you. Yes. Well, I trained to become a

Anders Bolling:

journalist when I was in my 20s and I really

Anders Bolling:

looked forward to doing that. I had been looking

Anders Bolling:

forward to becoming a journalist since I was, I

Anders Bolling:

guess, 15 years old or something like that. When

Anders Bolling:

I was a kid, I read these comic books with the

Anders Bolling:

hero was called Tintin. I don't know if you have.

Anders Bolling:

You do, I guess. It's a Belgian, serious. Anyway,

Anders Bolling:

he was a journalist, but he was all. Always on

Anders Bolling:

all these fantastic adventures all over the

Anders Bolling:

world. So it looked really cool. And he never

Anders Bolling:

wrote anything that I can remember, didn't write

Anders Bolling:

any articles. So it seemed like a very

Anders Bolling:

interesting life. And when I was like, you know,

Anders Bolling:

seven or eight or nine or something, I wanted to

Anders Bolling:

become a discoverer of the world. But then I

Anders Bolling:

realized, oh, every landmass has already been

Anders Bolling:

discovered. So I can't. I can't do this. I have

Anders Bolling:

to do something else. Anyway, so that's the

Anders Bolling:

background. And I wanted to become a journalist,

Anders Bolling:

but I took a couple of, you know, gap years to

Anders Bolling:

travel before I studied. And then I became a

Anders Bolling:

journalist and I got this job at the biggest

Anders Bolling:

newspaper in the biggest morning newspaper in

Anders Bolling:

Sweden. I'm living in Stockholm, Sweden, Northern

Anders Bolling:

Europe. After having had brief sojourns at other

Anders Bolling:

outlets, I ended up Douglas New Hatter Daily News

Anders Bolling:

biggest Newspaper. So I was there for 22 years

Anders Bolling:

as. As full time with a full time job there. I

Anders Bolling:

had been there a couple of times before, just

Anders Bolling:

briefly, but then 22 years. Okay. From 1998.

Meredith Oke:

So you were employed full time as a newspaper

Meredith Oke:

journalist for over 20 years. Okay. @ a major.

Anders Bolling:

I had.

Meredith Oke:

Major Swedish publication.

Anders Bolling:

Exactly. I had different kinds of jobs. I was a

Anders Bolling:

reporter, I was an editor. I did different

Anders Bolling:

things, but. But I was there for 22 years. Yes.

Meredith Oke:

And so did you cover all kinds of different

Meredith Oke:

things like politics, culture, all the things.

Anders Bolling:

I was always. As we might come back to. I was

Anders Bolling:

always interested in the deep questions in life,

Anders Bolling:

you know, the big questions, where, who are we?

Anders Bolling:

Where do we come from? And all that. And I had

Anders Bolling:

spiritual streak, a spiritual orientation already

Anders Bolling:

from childhood. But I kind of kept that under

Anders Bolling:

wraps because I kind of sensed that that wasn't

Anders Bolling:

really what you could talk about openly. But I

Anders Bolling:

was all I was. I've always been interested also

Anders Bolling:

in what's happening in society, foreign policy,

Anders Bolling:

economics, science, all kinds of stuff. So I

Anders Bolling:

wrote about all kinds of stuff. And when I was an

Anders Bolling:

editor, I had edited. I. I was working with other

Anders Bolling:

reporters, writing about these different kinds of

Anders Bolling:

things, the environment. I also wrote some

Anders Bolling:

columns, more personalized things where I shared

Anders Bolling:

my look on things, my worldview. So that was kind

Anders Bolling:

of nice. Then I had a blog for five years. I ran

Anders Bolling:

a blog called the Progress Blog, which was aimed

Anders Bolling:

to describe the world in brighter colors than we

Anders Bolling:

normally do in news journalism, because it's. And

Anders Bolling:

it was tied to a book that I wrote in 2008, and

Anders Bolling:

it came out in 2009, and it was called the Cozy

Anders Bolling:

Darkness of the Apocalypse. So that's where I

Anders Bolling:

kind of my first, you know, kind of. What's the

Anders Bolling:

word? When I dealt with. With news journalism,

Anders Bolling:

and I had struggled with it within. And so I had

Anders Bolling:

many things to say about it. And I was critical

Anders Bolling:

to the. To the misery bias that is kind of in the

Anders Bolling:

dramaturgy of news journalism. So I wrote a book

Anders Bolling:

about that and where I also displayed so many

Anders Bolling:

facts, waves and waves and waves of facts,

Anders Bolling:

showing that the world is not as bad as we think

Anders Bolling:

it is. And it was about the environment, about

Anders Bolling:

violence and about poverty broadly. And then it

Anders Bolling:

was kind of in detail as well. And I also

Anders Bolling:

speculated what this misery bias is, what the

Anders Bolling:

causes are behind this misery bias, and there are

Anders Bolling:

all kinds of explanations for it. It's a human

Anders Bolling:

trait, because I think we have in the lizard

Anders Bolling:

brain this tendency or we're prone to search for

Anders Bolling:

a scan for danger. And that was probably a useful

Anders Bolling:

trait 10,000 years ago or 100,000 years ago when

Anders Bolling:

our ancestors lived in caves and there were

Anders Bolling:

different dangerous animals are around and

Anders Bolling:

wildfires to keep track of and all kinds of

Anders Bolling:

stuff. But it's not really useful in our day and

Anders Bolling:

age in this society where, I mean day to day life

Anders Bolling:

is hardly ever lethal. I mean, the dangers are

Anders Bolling:

not lethal, but we still have this tendency.

Meredith Oke:

But if you just read newspapers and that's it,

Meredith Oke:

you stayed alone in a room, you never went out,

Meredith Oke:

you only read newspapers, you would not know that

Meredith Oke:

we are not, generally speaking, on a day to day

Meredith Oke:

basis under threat. It would feel.

Anders Bolling:

Exactly.

Meredith Oke:

The newspapers make us feel that. Misery bias, I

Meredith Oke:

love that term. That's absolutely what it is.

Anders Bolling:

Yes. And I also think about the misery threshold.

Anders Bolling:

The threshold over which we, I mean, where we put

Anders Bolling:

the, where we start talking about misery and bad

Anders Bolling:

things, it gets lower and lower all the time. If

Anders Bolling:

you go back to 300 years, it was probably a much

Anders Bolling:

higher threshold before people actually thought

Anders Bolling:

that something was a big problem. Probably, you

Anders Bolling:

know, it had to be large catastrophes, big worse

Anders Bolling:

and stuff like that. We still have that, that's

Anders Bolling:

for sure. But I mean, newspapers can make war

Anders Bolling:

headlines out of things that are far, far less

Anders Bolling:

dangerous today. So we lower the misery threshold.

Meredith Oke:

It's interesting, I really noticed that living

Meredith Oke:

overseas because I lived in places and a few

Meredith Oke:

different times there were major, major events

Meredith Oke:

happening that were in the area that I was living

Meredith Oke:

in, that had headlines, global headlines. And I

Meredith Oke:

would get messages from people like, I lived in

Meredith Oke:

Paris when or near Paris during, when there was

Meredith Oke:

that attack in the nightclub in the Bataclan.

Anders Bolling:

2015, I think.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, it was 2015 because we just moved there.

Meredith Oke:

And it was a terrible, terrible incident. It was

Meredith Oke:

major terrorist incident. However, I had people

Meredith Oke:

for days and days reaching out, are you okay? Are

Meredith Oke:

you okay? And outside of the, the one block

Meredith Oke:

radius where that terrible event occurred, I was

Meredith Oke:

like, yes, I'm, I'm at, I'm in the grocery store,

Meredith Oke:

I'm buying my groceries. And so, you know, life

Meredith Oke:

was going on. But it was interesting to me

Meredith Oke:

because the entire perception of all of, you

Meredith Oke:

know, oh, you're in France, you must be living

Meredith Oke:

through this terrorist event. And it was like.

Meredith Oke:

Because that's what everyone's focus was on,

Meredith Oke:

their attention was on and they connected those

Meredith Oke:

two things. And I just thought, isn't this

Meredith Oke:

interesting? Like, how often have I done that

Meredith Oke:

where I've just painted an entire region based on

Meredith Oke:

one incident that's getting my full attention and

Meredith Oke:

the attention of the world.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, it's very healthy to be out abroad

Anders Bolling:

sometimes and see it from that perspective and

Anders Bolling:

also read foreign newspapers, what they write

Anders Bolling:

about your own country. Because as you say, I

Anders Bolling:

mean, when I was at this big newspaper in

Anders Bolling:

Stockholm, we wrote stuff about, you know, what

Anders Bolling:

was happening. There is a narrative. We don't

Anders Bolling:

have to go into the politics of everything, but

Anders Bolling:

there is a. There is a certain narrative that is

Anders Bolling:

told that we are told in the Western world. And

Anders Bolling:

there's a slightly different narrative about the

Anders Bolling:

world told in Eastern Europe and in Russia and in

Anders Bolling:

China and as we all know, so different

Anders Bolling:

narratives. And I tend to think that there is

Anders Bolling:

some truth to all of them, but they're not. None

Anders Bolling:

of them is entirely the whole truth, so to speak.

Anders Bolling:

So there was a lot of, you know, kind of self,

Anders Bolling:

from our perspective, self evident things to say

Anders Bolling:

about Hungary and Turkey and countries like that.

Anders Bolling:

But then it's interesting to read or get to know

Anders Bolling:

what they, the newspapers in those countries

Anders Bolling:

write about Sweden and things that are happening

Anders Bolling:

in this country. And it's kind of, you know,

Anders Bolling:

people get. They feel attacked, you know, because

Anders Bolling:

I mean, personally when they read these things.

Anders Bolling:

But no, that's not me, that's not my country.

Anders Bolling:

That's not what's happening. You don't know

Anders Bolling:

what's happening here. It's nothing, nothing

Anders Bolling:

dangerous. But. But they are focusing, of course,

Anders Bolling:

on certain things that are happening in this

Anders Bolling:

country and that are in some countries. That in

Anders Bolling:

some countries get to be very big headlines. Like

Anders Bolling:

we have this gang violence, you might call it

Anders Bolling:

groups, gangs of youngsters, mainly young people

Anders Bolling:

who have come from other countries, from

Anders Bolling:

countries in the Middle east and Somalia and

Anders Bolling:

stuff like, and places like that. And there's

Anders Bolling:

some kind of a turf war around, you know, the

Anders Bolling:

cocaine and the drugs trade. And for some reason

Anders Bolling:

they've started using guns here. It's really

Anders Bolling:

bizarre. And I'm not denying that this is a big

Anders Bolling:

problem. It is a big problem, but it's not

Anders Bolling:

affecting everybody here. I mean, if I didn't

Anders Bolling:

read about it in newspapers, I wouldn't know it

Anders Bolling:

was going on. I'm living in Stockholm. I know

Anders Bolling:

there have been many shootings in this area in

Anders Bolling:

the suburbs of Stockholm. I've never heard a shot

Anders Bolling:

being fired once. So I mean, it's the same thing.

Anders Bolling:

But then if you think about it, I mean, why

Anders Bolling:

wouldn't these countries, the newspapers in those

Anders Bolling:

countries write about Sweden in that way? It's

Anders Bolling:

logical if we write, I mean, if we pick up some

Anders Bolling:

problem that's happening there It's a bit. Both a

Anders Bolling:

bit sad and a bit funny and a bit ridiculous that

Anders Bolling:

we look upon each other in this way. How we

Anders Bolling:

cannot see the whole story and the whole truth

Anders Bolling:

and just try to be neutral about things. And

Anders Bolling:

there's a lot we could say about, for instance,

Anders Bolling:

what's happening in Ukraine and all that. I don't

Anders Bolling:

think we should dive into that, but it's

Anders Bolling:

fascinating. I try to stay. I try to stay as

Anders Bolling:

neutral as possible in all these matters. I'm

Anders Bolling:

still interested in the news. I try not to follow

Anders Bolling:

the news as much because I kind of was marinated

Anders Bolling:

in it for so many years. So, I mean, to stay

Anders Bolling:

sane, I need to stay away from the news. I don't

Anders Bolling:

listen to it 247 like I did, but I kind of check

Anders Bolling:

the headlines and read a couple of articles every

Anders Bolling:

day. So I know what's going on. The big, big

Anders Bolling:

picture. And you can't miss the big things, of

Anders Bolling:

course. But I try to stay neutral. And it's,

Anders Bolling:

It's. It's incredible how people, you know, crawl

Anders Bolling:

into their different boxes and. And just see the

Anders Bolling:

world from one perspective. It's. It's so

Anders Bolling:

polarized. I don't know. And that's something

Anders Bolling:

that. I mean, my credo. Credo has been for many

Anders Bolling:

years that the world is better than we think. But

Anders Bolling:

this is actually something that's accentuated as

Anders Bolling:

being accentuated lately, this polarization. I

Anders Bolling:

wonder what it. Why, why that is. Because I would

Anders Bolling:

say that these, These opinions, that some people

Anders Bolling:

are shocked that they exist now, they have always

Anders Bolling:

been there. That's. I would say that I think they

Anders Bolling:

have always been there, but they haven't been

Anders Bolling:

able. They haven't. People have always had

Anders Bolling:

different views on things, but now they are so.

Anders Bolling:

It's so easy, you know, to express them by way of

Anders Bolling:

social media and all kinds of alternative media

Anders Bolling:

and all that. So we can see it. We can see it

Anders Bolling:

being said and being expressed. And I don't think

Anders Bolling:

people should be so shocked about that because

Anders Bolling:

we're different. We're 8 billion different angles

Anders Bolling:

on reality and we should respect each other and

Anders Bolling:

listen to each other. And we don't have to agree

Anders Bolling:

with each other. Absolutely not. But we should

Anders Bolling:

kind of be better at listening to each other and

Anders Bolling:

trying to understand what the other person means

Anders Bolling:

when he says or she says certain things. Because

Anders Bolling:

it's sometimes like people are just shut down

Anders Bolling:

when they hear that somebody is on a particular

Anders Bolling:

political spectrum. They just shut down all, you

Anders Bolling:

know, ability to.

Meredith Oke:

I think we've been encoded in Some way to trigger

Meredith Oke:

a shutdown. Upon hearing certain words, the names

Meredith Oke:

of political parties, the names of certain

Meredith Oke:

politicians. I tend to avoid saying them because

Meredith Oke:

I. I want this podcast to, like, transcend

Meredith Oke:

politics. Yeah, everyone has. Everyone's in the

Meredith Oke:

quantum field, right? Everyone has mitochondria.

Meredith Oke:

We all deserve to know. So. And I feel like as

Meredith Oke:

soon as you say certain things, we've been

Meredith Oke:

programmed, Right. You hear a certain word, a

Meredith Oke:

certain name, or someone says that they're

Meredith Oke:

affiliated with a certain party, and it's like,

Meredith Oke:

boom, the mind closes and you feel almost

Meredith Oke:

triggered, like, oh, like a betrayal. Like, here

Meredith Oke:

I was listening to this. It just happened to me

Meredith Oke:

yesterday. I was listening to this coach who I

Meredith Oke:

really like. She's. You know, she was sharing all

Meredith Oke:

this stuff, and then she said something about her

Meredith Oke:

feelings on a political situation, and I just

Meredith Oke:

felt myself go, and I felt betrayed because it

Meredith Oke:

was different than mine. And I thought, oh, my

Meredith Oke:

goodness. Oh, we have all these programmed.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, we're programmed. It's. It's sad, but it's.

Anders Bolling:

It's also very interesting. But I think it has.

Anders Bolling:

It's part of the. Sorry, part of the health. It's

Anders Bolling:

part of our health, actually. I mean, your

Anders Bolling:

podcast is all about health and quantum health,

Anders Bolling:

which is wonderful. And I think what we're

Anders Bolling:

discussing now is actually part of that, because

Anders Bolling:

being healthy is also about being able to see the

Anders Bolling:

whole world and also to be able to dare to

Anders Bolling:

question things and speaking your own truth and

Anders Bolling:

all those things without fear and not being so.

Anders Bolling:

You know, we're so scared of being on the wrong

Anders Bolling:

team or being on the wrong side or. It's not that

Anders Bolling:

we're only humans and we're only people, and it

Anders Bolling:

has to do with our health, because if we kind of

Anders Bolling:

block ourselves from certain parts of this

Anders Bolling:

reality, I think we end up blocking also energy,

Anders Bolling:

energy lines, energy fields in our bodies. And I

Anders Bolling:

think it's bad. I think we should be open.

Meredith Oke:

Yes, no, I completely agree. And that's why I

Meredith Oke:

wanted to talk to you, because we don't. I think

Meredith Oke:

even the categorization of physical health and

Meredith Oke:

mental health, I think those categories are

Meredith Oke:

fading away. Just like politically, the left and

Meredith Oke:

right is starting to be meaningless. You know,

Meredith Oke:

like these. These compartments that we've been

Meredith Oke:

trained to put everything in are no longer valid.

Meredith Oke:

They're no longer useful. And so if health is

Meredith Oke:

just health, spiritual, mental, emotional,

Meredith Oke:

physical, psychological, then how we process

Meredith Oke:

information, which is in large part through

Meredith Oke:

media, whether legacy media, traditional media,

Meredith Oke:

social media, we need to understand how to do

Meredith Oke:

that without going crazy, without Getting

Meredith Oke:

triggered and with a level, as we were talking

Meredith Oke:

about before, with a level of discernment as we

Meredith Oke:

were. So we're moving into this new media

Meredith Oke:

landscape and you've been on the forefront of

Meredith Oke:

that. You were traditional newspaper then you did

Meredith Oke:

a blog, now you have your YouTube channel where

Meredith Oke:

you get to cover whatever you want because it's

Meredith Oke:

yours. But thousands and thousands of people are

Meredith Oke:

doing that. So it's become a very busy media

Meredith Oke:

landscape. We used to have four choices and now

Meredith Oke:

we have 4 million choices. So talk to me about

Meredith Oke:

that word discernment and how in this new

Meredith Oke:

landscape where there are so many more choices,

Meredith Oke:

there are so many people like yourself, right.

Meredith Oke:

Who have been trained to deliver information and

Meredith Oke:

are choosing to do it in a new way versus people

Meredith Oke:

who just are like, I'm just going to turn on the

Meredith Oke:

camera and start talking. I've never done this

Meredith Oke:

before. That's all good too. It's all good. But

Meredith Oke:

how do we make sure that we are. I know we can't

Meredith Oke:

really make sure of anything, I guess, but how do

Meredith Oke:

we practice discernment in this very crowded

Meredith Oke:

media landscape? Would you say?

Anders Bolling:

Very, very. Yeah, very good question. I'm not

Anders Bolling:

sure I have a wise enough answer to that

Anders Bolling:

question. But it is, as you say, I mean, the

Anders Bolling:

landscape is so broad now and, but it's also,

Anders Bolling:

it's like everything that happened, the big

Anders Bolling:

changes that happened, they contain both

Anders Bolling:

opportunities and threats. It's like the, the old

Anders Bolling:

saying that the Chinese sign for crisis comprise

Anders Bolling:

is comprised of the sign for or the character

Anders Bolling:

for. What is it now? Threat and opportunity. I

Anders Bolling:

think it's threat and opportunity. This is the

Anders Bolling:

definition of a crisis. So there's always an

Anders Bolling:

opportunity in this myriad that we see, myriad

Anders Bolling:

new outlets that we see and can access. But I

Anders Bolling:

think the Internet in general is such a big

Anders Bolling:

opportunity. I tend to think of it as kind of the

Anders Bolling:

approximation of the akashic Records, the 3D

Anders Bolling:

version of the Akashic records. It's kind of a

Anders Bolling:

nice try, but we're not really there. But I mean,

Anders Bolling:

because for real, it is actually very, very easy

Anders Bolling:

now for people. I mean, despite the attempts at

Anders Bolling:

censoring people and stuff like that, it is very

Anders Bolling:

easy to find very, very interesting information

Anders Bolling:

about things that you will never actually learn

Anders Bolling:

in the, the legacy media or very seldom, at least

Anders Bolling:

you can, you can hear about them out about those

Anders Bolling:

things in, in alternative media perhaps. But I

Anders Bolling:

think it's actually, of course people say, I

Anders Bolling:

don't have time to check everything up. I need

Anders Bolling:

the media to tell me what's true and what's not

Anders Bolling:

true. But I think that time is over. The time

Anders Bolling:

when we could rely on authorities to tell us what

Anders Bolling:

is true and not true. The time when we rely on

Anders Bolling:

authorities to tell us what's happening and not

Anders Bolling:

happening and what we should do and not do and

Anders Bolling:

what we should vote for and not vote for. I mean,

Anders Bolling:

if you go back 50, 60 years, people were. People

Anders Bolling:

tend to romanticize that time and say, oh, it was

Anders Bolling:

much more calm, the society was calm and

Anders Bolling:

everybody agreed on everything. But I think

Anders Bolling:

that's actually a false narrative. I think it was

Anders Bolling:

more like people just assumed that authorities

Anders Bolling:

were trustworthy, they were to be trusted,

Anders Bolling:

because people didn't think for themselves as

Anders Bolling:

much. It was more hierarchical in that sense. And

Anders Bolling:

you went to a doctor and the doctor told you what

Anders Bolling:

you were sick of and you just accepted that.

Anders Bolling:

People don't do that anymore. They kind of want a

Anders Bolling:

second opinion and they think for themselves and

Anders Bolling:

they're skeptical. And that's a good thing. It

Anders Bolling:

makes the world a messier place and a more

Anders Bolling:

complex and confused place. But I think that's a

Anders Bolling:

necessary process. And same with what you read in

Anders Bolling:

the papers and here on the TV news or whatever.

Anders Bolling:

Check it up for yourself if you can. If you have

Anders Bolling:

the time, just go to the Internet and search. Try

Anders Bolling:

to find the. The primary sources for everything,

Anders Bolling:

if it's possible. Because it's oftentimes not as

Anders Bolling:

simple as you were being presented it to be. When

Anders Bolling:

it comes to science, for instance, or health or

Anders Bolling:

the ua, the UFO phenomenon, which I've lately

Anders Bolling:

been very interested in, or there are so many

Anders Bolling:

things happening, so discernment, that's one

Anders Bolling:

thing. I mean, that's the practical way of, of

Anders Bolling:

looking into things for yourself. But also trust

Anders Bolling:

your own judgment because we are all, if I am to

Anders Bolling:

be a bit esoteric now, we are all aspects of

Anders Bolling:

source, if you will, and we have much greater

Anders Bolling:

capacity than we are led to believe. If we just

Anders Bolling:

listen to our inner voices and our higher selves

Anders Bolling:

and sit in stillness five or 10 minutes now and

Anders Bolling:

then and just let things sink in and don't think

Anders Bolling:

actively about them with your brain, but just let

Anders Bolling:

them sink in. And then oftentimes when you come

Anders Bolling:

out of that still little period, you have better

Anders Bolling:

discernment actually just by doing that, just by

Anders Bolling:

meditating a little bit or just by not doing

Anders Bolling:

anything for five minutes, it helps. I think

Anders Bolling:

that's a good practice. I try to meditate every

Anders Bolling:

morning, or I do, but not every meditation

Anders Bolling:

session is extremely deep. But most of the time

Anders Bolling:

it's really, really good. It makes one start the

Anders Bolling:

day on a much better and calmer note than if you

Anders Bolling:

don't do it.

Meredith Oke:

So, yeah, and I think that's really wise to

Meredith Oke:

approach the media that way. And for myself, over

Meredith Oke:

time, I can now it's super clear to me when the

Meredith Oke:

headline has an agenda of some sort. And so then

Meredith Oke:

it's like, okay, well, take that with a grain of

Meredith Oke:

salt. Take that with a grain of salt. And then

Meredith Oke:

you finally find someone who's covering it in a

Meredith Oke:

somewhat neutral, or at least maybe with a

Meredith Oke:

different agenda, so they're highlighting a

Meredith Oke:

different aspect of it and really have to like,

Meredith Oke:

put all these puzzle pieces together and see the

Meredith Oke:

voices that come through who are most often

Meredith Oke:

dedicated to really just wanting to know what's

Meredith Oke:

happening and not to as driving a bias in some

Meredith Oke:

sort of direction. And yeah, it's a journey.

Anders Bolling:

It's a journey. It's also, we, you have to also

Anders Bolling:

respect, I mean, everybody. We are all human.

Anders Bolling:

We're all human. And I've been, As I said, 22

Anders Bolling:

years at this big newspaper. And I can add, by

Anders Bolling:

the way, that the blog that I had was actually

Anders Bolling:

within that newspaper. So that was my thing that

Anders Bolling:

I was able to have it on there. But so I know, I

Anders Bolling:

know how, I know the drill, so to speak, and I

Anders Bolling:

know how people tend to. And this is natural. It

Anders Bolling:

happens in every workplace. There is a certain

Anders Bolling:

amount of groupthink and it's, it's, it's, it's

Anders Bolling:

not very good, but it's natural. I mean, it's

Anders Bolling:

explicable, explainable. It's, it happens. So

Anders Bolling:

it's not that. It's, if you, if you, if you find

Anders Bolling:

certain media outlets being not trustworthy, not

Anders Bolling:

reliable, especially not reliable, certain media

Anders Bolling:

outlets, perhaps you have to respect that people

Anders Bolling:

working there, or most of them are not, I mean,

Anders Bolling:

they are convinced that they're doing a good

Anders Bolling:

thing. And so it's, it's just, you know, hard to

Anders Bolling:

just go against the stream sometimes. And. Well,

Anders Bolling:

there are certain narratives and there is,

Anders Bolling:

there's a lot of narratives. I mean, science, for

Anders Bolling:

instance. I'm also now engaged in an organization

Anders Bolling:

called the Frontier Journalists Network, which is

Anders Bolling:

something that your listeners might be interested

Anders Bolling:

in checking out, perhaps. And we are, it's a very

Anders Bolling:

small organization still, but we want to convey

Anders Bolling:

to journalists around the world the science, the

Anders Bolling:

research that is happening at the interface of

Anders Bolling:

the, the nexus, if you will, between science and

Anders Bolling:

spirituality. And there is a lot of things

Anders Bolling:

happening there, which is exciting, actually. Not

Anders Bolling:

least the Research on consciousness and what

Anders Bolling:

consciousness is. And it's getting closer and

Anders Bolling:

closer and closer to, I mean the mainstream

Anders Bolling:

science there, there neuroscientists are getting

Anders Bolling:

closer and closer and closer to, to spiritual

Anders Bolling:

traditions that have been there for thousands of

Anders Bolling:

years. And it's really exciting. And this is

Anders Bolling:

actually happening. It's not, I mean it's peer

Anders Bolling:

reviewed papers, but this has not sunk into the

Anders Bolling:

mainstream media yet. It will, it will. I've

Anders Bolling:

written a couple of articles and I'm very

Anders Bolling:

grateful that I've been able to publish one big

Anders Bolling:

long read in a mainstream news magazine here in

Anders Bolling:

Sweden about the latest findings in consciousness

Anders Bolling:

research. And, but there is a going back to this

Anders Bolling:

group think and, and the narratives that we're

Anders Bolling:

being told for decades and decades. This is a

Anders Bolling:

good example of that because journalists are,

Anders Bolling:

they tend to, you know, stick to the, what is the

Anders Bolling:

mainstream view in, in certain, all kinds of

Anders Bolling:

areas. A few of them can sometimes take it, take

Anders Bolling:

a detour and write a, you know, a column about

Anders Bolling:

some new woo woo. But you know, news articles are

Anders Bolling:

mainly following the mainstream path. But, but

Anders Bolling:

that is actually moving now. It's a moving

Anders Bolling:

target. But most journalists don't know that yet.

Anders Bolling:

So it's, but I mean it's difficult to, it's, it's

Anders Bolling:

not really fair to blame the journalists for not

Anders Bolling:

being on the front, you know, the cutting edge of

Anders Bolling:

this development here because they will

Anders Bolling:

eventually. But there is an inertia.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because

Meredith Oke:

I really think, you know, we get so mad at the

Meredith Oke:

bureaucrats and the, the politicians and the

Meredith Oke:

journalists. But I'm not sure, you know, I don't

Meredith Oke:

think it's the people who are terrible. I think

Meredith Oke:

it's the systems that are, have terrible

Meredith Oke:

incentives. So you know, I, someone was saying

Meredith Oke:

like, why are, who are all these incompetent

Meredith Oke:

people? Like why can't they hire better people?

Meredith Oke:

And I'm like, they're probably fine. They

Meredith Oke:

probably have the potential to be highly

Meredith Oke:

competent. But bureaucracy incentivizes

Meredith Oke:

incompetence. Right. And politics incentivizes

Meredith Oke:

corruption and the medical system incentivizes

Meredith Oke:

treating symptoms with drugs.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And that's, and we just kind of lean into it. And

Meredith Oke:

so what I hear saying for journalists it's like

Meredith Oke:

you're incentivized to stay in the boat and not

Meredith Oke:

rock it. And is the punishment for that losing

Meredith Oke:

your job, losing your reputation? Right. Because

Meredith Oke:

I know people who are like viscerally terrified

Meredith Oke:

of touching a woo woo subject because they really

Meredith Oke:

think it will destroy their credibility they want

Meredith Oke:

to.

Anders Bolling:

They don't want others to put the tinfoil hat on

Anders Bolling:

their heads. Yeah, they're terrified of that. I

Anders Bolling:

can understand that. But I'm out of that now. I

Anders Bolling:

don't, I don't care anymore. I care a little bit,

Anders Bolling:

but not too much because I haven't. I mean, I've

Anders Bolling:

been a freelancer for five years now, and I've

Anders Bolling:

been out there so much. And I know that I have. I

Anders Bolling:

have a soul family all over the world.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Anders Bolling:

That thinks and feels the same way that I do. So

Anders Bolling:

I'm, I'm, I'm fine. But if I were still in that

Anders Bolling:

situation, I would probably feel a bit scared

Anders Bolling:

about that. Yeah. Because everybody wants to be

Anders Bolling:

in the group, on the right side, on the, you

Anders Bolling:

know, the sane side of things. And this is. The

Anders Bolling:

UFO phenomenon is the same thing here, actually.

Anders Bolling:

But what's, what's good about it is that, that

Anders Bolling:

it's been discussed in Congress. I mean, these

Anders Bolling:

are.

Meredith Oke:

Let's unpack that one. What do you see happening

Meredith Oke:

with that topic right now?

Anders Bolling:

Well, people who have been working in, you know,

Anders Bolling:

with. Both in the private sector and in the

Anders Bolling:

public sector with security on a high level,

Anders Bolling:

they've been working in the military. They are

Anders Bolling:

trained officers who have worked for many years

Anders Bolling:

in the military special operations, and have come

Anders Bolling:

to work with these very secretive, These covert

Anders Bolling:

operations that have to do with retrieving

Anders Bolling:

unidentified anomalous phenomena, craft et craft

Anders Bolling:

probably, and transporting them to certain

Anders Bolling:

facilities where they have been. Certain special

Anders Bolling:

people have tried to reverse engineer those

Anders Bolling:

craft. And this has been going on for probably 70

Anders Bolling:

to 80 years. And this is what you hear in

Anders Bolling:

congressional hearings now. There have been,

Anders Bolling:

there have been two of those, one in 20, 23 and

Anders Bolling:

one last year with people who are.

Meredith Oke:

You have members of Congress sit and listen to

Meredith Oke:

the testimony of people participating in the

Meredith Oke:

activities you just described.

Anders Bolling:

Yes.

Meredith Oke:

Okay. And so this is on the record.

Anders Bolling:

This is on the record.

Meredith Oke:

All right.

Anders Bolling:

And it's been. And some of the mainstream papers,

Anders Bolling:

they have written about these hearings, of

Anders Bolling:

course. I mean, that otherwise would be really

Anders Bolling:

strange. They have, but it's, it's like they kind

Anders Bolling:

of. They don't really believe it anyway. It's

Anders Bolling:

like it's too, it's too far out. So they had to,

Anders Bolling:

you know, add some kind of. They have to

Anders Bolling:

formulate it or word it in a way that it's a

Anders Bolling:

little bit tongue in cheek sometimes, perhaps, or

Anders Bolling:

always end the articles with a little bit of

Anders Bolling:

skepticism. But it's coming out there more and

Anders Bolling:

more, and I don't know about this latest

Anders Bolling:

administration that is now in place in the United

Anders Bolling:

States. It's very early to say what's going to

Anders Bolling:

happen with many things around that. But anyway,

Anders Bolling:

this is one of the things that they have said.

Anders Bolling:

People in that administration have said that they

Anders Bolling:

will disclose what has been going on in this

Anders Bolling:

area. And so it's very, very interesting,

Anders Bolling:

interesting times. And if you're really into the

Anders Bolling:

woo woo stuff and listen to people who are

Anders Bolling:

channeling and stuff like that, which I do

Anders Bolling:

sometimes, I find it very fascinating. I can't

Anders Bolling:

say that I am convinced that everything that is

Anders Bolling:

actually an extraterrestrial entity that

Anders Bolling:

communicates through a channel, but doesn't

Anders Bolling:

really matter because what is being said is often

Anders Bolling:

very wise and often very interesting. And some of

Anders Bolling:

those people have been saying that this is the

Anders Bolling:

time of disclosure and we are soon going to see

Anders Bolling:

actual craft hovering above cities and people are

Anders Bolling:

not going to be able to deny that they're

Anders Bolling:

actually there. So we will see. We had these, you

Anders Bolling:

know, so called the drone crisis in New Jersey

Anders Bolling:

and some other places, mainly over New Jersey.

Anders Bolling:

And they were. This is still a very, very

Anders Bolling:

unsolved matter. It's been, you know, dismissed

Anders Bolling:

by, by the authorities as. No, no, it's totally

Anders Bolling:

fine. It's just drones. But there are a lot of,

Anders Bolling:

there is a lot of video footage from not only

Anders Bolling:

civilians but from mayors and from police

Anders Bolling:

officers that show, you know, that this is not

Anders Bolling:

just ordinary drones. Some are probably, some

Anders Bolling:

are, but not all of them. There is something

Anders Bolling:

strange going on there and I don't know, maybe,

Anders Bolling:

maybe it's all man made. But then they have to

Anders Bolling:

because these craft are moving in such strange

Anders Bolling:

ways sometimes that they have to. In that case,

Anders Bolling:

if FAA has, has, you know, authorized all these,

Anders Bolling:

these operations, they have to explain what's

Anders Bolling:

going on. Otherwise we don't. It is something

Anders Bolling:

fishy going on. Maybe it's not ETs, but it's in.

Meredith Oke:

This case it's something at the very least, it's

Meredith Oke:

advanced technology that nobody has. And

Meredith Oke:

knowledge exists, whether it was made on this

Meredith Oke:

planet or somewhere else.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, maybe on this planet, but with technology

Anders Bolling:

that we have retrieved from reverse engineered

Anders Bolling:

from retrieved. Did you hear this? Or these

Anders Bolling:

interviews and these episodes on News nations

Anders Bolling:

with the journalist Ross Coltheart who

Anders Bolling:

interviewed Jack Barber.

Meredith Oke:

Yes, you did actually. It's funny. Bring it up. I

Meredith Oke:

just listened to it two days ago.

Anders Bolling:

Okay.

Meredith Oke:

Because I heard someone on YouTube talk about it.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, it's fascinating.

Meredith Oke:

It was. They did. I thought. I didn't really, I

Meredith Oke:

hadn't. Wasn't familiar with News Nation as an

Meredith Oke:

outlet. I thought they did a beautiful job

Meredith Oke:

covering that story and respectfully and treating

Meredith Oke:

all of their interview subjects respectfully, but

Meredith Oke:

also not, you know, sensationalizing it and

Meredith Oke:

jumping to conclusions, just staying with the

Meredith Oke:

facts as they were being related and what they

Meredith Oke:

could back up with video. And I thought they. I

Meredith Oke:

thought they did a really nice job.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, me too.

Meredith Oke:

Journalistically speaking.

Anders Bolling:

I understand Ross Coulthard had, you know, vetted

Anders Bolling:

this man, Jake Barber, and some other people that

Anders Bolling:

were on his show as well for a couple of years.

Anders Bolling:

So he really, really. Yeah, he really worked a

Anders Bolling:

lot beforehand to make it possible because he. I

Anders Bolling:

mean, he's a serious journalist. And this is a

Anders Bolling:

good thing with journalism. It should be like

Anders Bolling:

this.

Meredith Oke:

I think that's what I was picking up on. Like

Meredith Oke:

these. This just has a depth to it. These people,

Meredith Oke:

these producers and these journalists have done

Meredith Oke:

their homework. They really, really. It felt

Meredith Oke:

connected to the material. They had researched

Meredith Oke:

every piece of everything that they were

Meredith Oke:

presenting to the audience. It was. And so now

Meredith Oke:

you're telling me it was years of research.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Wow.

Anders Bolling:

And Jake Barber has also requested to be

Anders Bolling:

testifying before Congress as well. So he's

Anders Bolling:

working on that. And he has this group of people

Anders Bolling:

who. In an organization called Sky Watcher, I

Anders Bolling:

think, or Sky Watchers.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Anders Bolling:

And they are people like himself who have been

Anders Bolling:

working in these covert operations concerning

Anders Bolling:

these UAPs and the retrieval programs. And they

Anders Bolling:

are. They say that they will try and they are

Anders Bolling:

certain that they will succeed also to summon

Anders Bolling:

these craft within that. Within that. Within the

Anders Bolling:

confines of this organization, Sky Watcher, and

Anders Bolling:

be able to retrieve them and to. Because that's

Anders Bolling:

also. That's. You heard the interview. Part of

Anders Bolling:

this actually has to do with consciousness. And

Anders Bolling:

this is where. This is the part. As Ross Coltort

Anders Bolling:

pointed out, this is probably the part that

Anders Bolling:

people have the hardest time wrapping their heads

Anders Bolling:

around because they're not used to talking about

Anders Bolling:

consciousness, and especially not in combination

Anders Bolling:

with practical things like technical things and

Anders Bolling:

science and all that. But it all goes together.

Anders Bolling:

Of course. Consciousness is part of it. And as

Anders Bolling:

far as I understand, Jake Barber and his. These

Anders Bolling:

teams that are working with these retrieval

Anders Bolling:

programs, they have certain groups that are.

Anders Bolling:

Psyops. No, not psyops. They're psionics. They

Anders Bolling:

work with psionics. So it's.

Meredith Oke:

Right.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah. Parapsychologically, you know, they have

Anders Bolling:

extra sensory.

Meredith Oke:

They have like a team of psychics.

Anders Bolling:

Like a team of psychics. Right. Yeah. Thank you.

Anders Bolling:

I was trying to find the right words there.

Meredith Oke:

No, but that's not what they call them. You're

Meredith Oke:

right. They call them psionics. They had a

Meredith Oke:

special military word. So that doesn't sound like

Meredith Oke:

team of psychics, except that's what it is. Okay.

Anders Bolling:

But they actually contracted these crafts by way

Anders Bolling:

of consciousness in some way. So they, they,

Anders Bolling:

that's why. Because you can, you can maybe think

Anders Bolling:

that, well, if they're so advanced and they come

Anders Bolling:

here from another star system and why would they,

Anders Bolling:

I mean, why would they do something as stupid as,

Anders Bolling:

you know, crash their. Why would they craft crash

Anders Bolling:

on Earth Sounds really, you know, not very

Anders Bolling:

advanced. But maybe that's not what's happening.

Anders Bolling:

It's more like they are being summoned. So

Anders Bolling:

anyway, if this group, Skywatcher or organization

Anders Bolling:

or whatever it's called, I think it's a company

Anders Bolling:

really, but it doesn't matter if they're able to

Anders Bolling:

do that and then to present these parts of craft

Anders Bolling:

or whatever they get hold of, that would be

Anders Bolling:

really, really interesting. Pretty difficult for,

Anders Bolling:

I guess, journalists to just dismiss. So we'll

Anders Bolling:

see. I think this year is going to be

Anders Bolling:

interesting. More things are going to be

Anders Bolling:

revealed, I think in that, in that area.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, I think so too. I get my information from a

Meredith Oke:

similar way you just described a little bit of

Meredith Oke:

this, a little bit of that.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Okay. What are the. And that seems to be a common

Meredith Oke:

thread is that these next couple of years are

Meredith Oke:

just. There are going to be so many shifts in how

Meredith Oke:

we see things. It's just going to be impossible

Meredith Oke:

to maintain the status quo. And I feel, and I'm

Meredith Oke:

curious what your experience has been. I feel

Meredith Oke:

that a lot of us have been called to step into

Meredith Oke:

these alternative spaces and start laying the

Meredith Oke:

foundation so that when these shifts do happen,

Meredith Oke:

there's some projects, some place to go for the

Meredith Oke:

people. Yeah. Something in place for people for

Meredith Oke:

all of us to grab onto. Like, do you feel that

Meredith Oke:

sense or what's your experience been like.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, I feel the same way. May sound a bit

Anders Bolling:

pretentious, but it's not. I don't think it's

Anders Bolling:

that. It's just because in many ways it would

Anders Bolling:

have been easier to just stay in the mainstream

Anders Bolling:

and do what everybody else does. But I never

Anders Bolling:

really felt at ease or I didn't feel comfortable

Anders Bolling:

and I didn't understand what it was because I had

Anders Bolling:

this fantastic job at this fantastic workplace,

Anders Bolling:

this big newspaper. But something told me that

Anders Bolling:

I'm not sure I'm supposed to be here. And then I.

Anders Bolling:

It's a personal thing also because me and my ex

Anders Bolling:

wife who's now still my best friend. We meet all

Anders Bolling:

the time and we discuss these kinds of things

Anders Bolling:

also a lot. So it was a very beautiful, loving

Anders Bolling:

divorce that we decided to have there five years

Anders Bolling:

ago. And so all this happened at once. We

Anders Bolling:

separated and I quit my job. My father died and I

Anders Bolling:

started this podcast. And so it all happened at

Anders Bolling:

once. So there were a lot of things happening. So

Anders Bolling:

there was some kind of a. Maybe it was a Saturn

Anders Bolling:

return in my life, if you know about that, every

Anders Bolling:

29 years. So I was 58 then. Was I 57 or

Anders Bolling:

something? I don't know, something like that. 56

Anders Bolling:

maybe. But somewhere around there, there was

Anders Bolling:

something telling me that if I don't do this now,

Anders Bolling:

then when. Because I got an inheritance. And a

Anders Bolling:

little bit like that, when we sold our house, we

Anders Bolling:

made some money on that. So I had some. Some

Anders Bolling:

extra money and I thought, so if I'm going to

Anders Bolling:

quit, I better do it now because this is the best

Anders Bolling:

time. So I did it.

Meredith Oke:

It's like, there's no more real world reasons.

Meredith Oke:

It's like, oh, I need the paycheck, I need to pay

Meredith Oke:

my mortgage. It's like, okay, Exactly.

Anders Bolling:

And then, yes, during that period, I was very

Anders Bolling:

grateful that there were people like yourself and

Anders Bolling:

others on YouTube and on Alternative platforms

Anders Bolling:

that could talk about deep stuff that I was

Anders Bolling:

pondering at the time, that I didn't find anybody

Anders Bolling:

talking about that on Swedish national radio or

Anders Bolling:

in the newspaper. So I already. Back then, I

Anders Bolling:

mean, it's not very long ago, but it's growing

Anders Bolling:

even more so. I think you're right to your point

Anders Bolling:

there, that people like you and me, I think we

Anders Bolling:

have a role to play there. When it's going to

Anders Bolling:

become even more confused and chaotic out there,

Anders Bolling:

which I think it will in many ways. I don't think

Anders Bolling:

we're going to have violent, more violence and

Anders Bolling:

stuff like that. People are scared of that. I

Anders Bolling:

don't know. Of course, I know as little as

Anders Bolling:

anybody. But my sense is that it's going to be

Anders Bolling:

kind of messy but not really dangerous, if you

Anders Bolling:

see what I mean. So people are gonna perceive

Anders Bolling:

things as dangerous, but they're not really. It's

Anders Bolling:

just that things are handled in a different way

Anders Bolling:

than they used to be handled. And old paradigms

Anders Bolling:

are shattered and old ways of organizing science,

Anders Bolling:

nations, economies, politics are changing and

Anders Bolling:

people always get scared when this happens. I

Anders Bolling:

just think it's from the place where I am now. I

Anders Bolling:

just think it's very, very interesting, actually.

Anders Bolling:

It's not going to be easy, but it's Going to be

Anders Bolling:

very interesting.

Meredith Oke:

I think it's true. We. What's that? I think it's

Meredith Oke:

also a Chinese proverb, may you be born in

Meredith Oke:

interesting times. But it's kind of. We're in it

Meredith Oke:

because. Yeah, I think messy is a good word.

Meredith Oke:

That's the sense I'm getting. And that's what

Meredith Oke:

I'm. I'm starting to see. Like a maelstrom. Like,

Meredith Oke:

there's just. It's. It's like the Zone is being

Meredith Oke:

flooded with messages and information and this is

Meredith Oke:

happening. No, that's happening. No, that's

Meredith Oke:

wrong. No, this. Wrong. And it's becoming. Yeah,

Meredith Oke:

it's. It's not clear. And that part of us that

Meredith Oke:

wants. That wants it to be clear was this. Is

Meredith Oke:

this disinformation or not? It's like, what. But

Meredith Oke:

what you always say is, there's a golden thread

Meredith Oke:

of truth in everything. It's like. Well, it's

Meredith Oke:

kind of. Kind of misinformation, but there's

Meredith Oke:

something true about it. Right? It's like.

Anders Bolling:

Exactly.

Meredith Oke:

That seems to be what we're coming up against

Meredith Oke:

over and over. And navigating through that, for

Meredith Oke:

those of us, like, oriented towards truth, is.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, it's. It's. It's exciting.

Anders Bolling:

It's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. And golden

Anders Bolling:

thread of truth is. Is a very good thing here to

Anders Bolling:

think about, because when you see that, if you

Anders Bolling:

can. If you can see all. All the pieces of

Anders Bolling:

information that you glean with a neutral, with

Anders Bolling:

neutralize, you. You. You will discern, you will

Anders Bolling:

be able to discern that there is, as I say, a

Anders Bolling:

golden thread of truth in everything, even the

Anders Bolling:

things that the mainstream might call

Anders Bolling:

disinformation. But then you also realize that

Anders Bolling:

what you have thought for 30 years was the

Anders Bolling:

absolute truth was not either. Not the absolute

Anders Bolling:

truth, but it had a golden truth, a golden,

Anders Bolling:

golden thread of truth in it. But it wasn't the

Anders Bolling:

whole truth. I mean, take history, for instance.

Anders Bolling:

It's kind of obvious these days that, I mean,

Anders Bolling:

more and more things are coming up about what's

Anders Bolling:

happened in history and we haven't been told

Anders Bolling:

everything. Of course, it's not strange, of

Anders Bolling:

course. I mean, if you take wars, for instance,

Anders Bolling:

that have been fought over the course of history,

Anders Bolling:

the winner writes the history. So there's another

Anders Bolling:

side to it, always and has always been. So it's

Anders Bolling:

not. It's not. There's nothing strange in it.

Anders Bolling:

Some people might get nervous and feel uneasy

Anders Bolling:

when they realize that there is no such thing as

Anders Bolling:

one absolute truth, because there isn't. But to

Anders Bolling:

Me, it makes life much more interesting and much

Anders Bolling:

larger. And it also has to do, of course, it ties

Anders Bolling:

in with what kind of worldview or life view you

Anders Bolling:

have. Because if you're a materialist and you

Anders Bolling:

believe that we are only biological robots with

Anders Bolling:

no purpose, we just have to do the best we can of

Anders Bolling:

this physical life and then we die and it's all

Anders Bolling:

black and there is nothing more, then you might

Anders Bolling:

get nervous about it. But if you have a different

Anders Bolling:

view and you realize that the essence of us, the

Anders Bolling:

core, can't die, it never dies. It's, I mean,

Anders Bolling:

consciousness is eternal. We're just part of,

Anders Bolling:

we're all together, we're all part of the same

Anders Bolling:

all encompassing consciousness. Then it's, it's

Anders Bolling:

just, I mean, this may sound almost preposterous

Anders Bolling:

to some people, but it's, it's all good. When you

Anders Bolling:

see it that way, it actually is all good. I mean,

Anders Bolling:

in essence then you can, of course, on the

Anders Bolling:

surface, when you day to day life and decisions

Anders Bolling:

that are being made and events, you can, of

Anders Bolling:

course you can have opinions about them. That was

Anders Bolling:

bad. That was good. That was bad. That was good.

Anders Bolling:

That's how we operate, that's how we are human.

Anders Bolling:

But I mean in general, the big scheme of things,

Anders Bolling:

it's all good. That's the big secret of the

Anders Bolling:

universe, is that everything's going to be fine.

Meredith Oke:

Yes, yes. And we, and we get to participate, we

Meredith Oke:

get to contribute to the type of consciousness

Meredith Oke:

that we're living in, the type of reality that

Meredith Oke:

we're living in. So your decision to leave

Meredith Oke:

mainstream media and start your own is

Meredith Oke:

contributing to a timeline where that, that

Meredith Oke:

exists. And then everyone who chooses, whether

Meredith Oke:

you do it in a public facing way or you just

Meredith Oke:

choose to put your energy on different types of

Meredith Oke:

things. Like we're building, we're building the

Meredith Oke:

reality that we are then going to be experiencing.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Or are experiencing.

Anders Bolling:

Yes, yes, I agree. I wonder what people,

Anders Bolling:

colleagues, old colleagues of mine from the

Anders Bolling:

newspaper are thinking about what I'm doing. Or

Anders Bolling:

maybe they're not thinking about it at all. Maybe

Anders Bolling:

I'm just, they have just forgot about me. That's,

Anders Bolling:

that's fine. But because I think I still, I think

Anders Bolling:

I'm a person who's pretty difficult to pinpoint

Anders Bolling:

for, for people because I'm still writing, you

Anders Bolling:

know, pieces that are kind of, you know, normal

Anders Bolling:

about science and about the environment. And I

Anders Bolling:

get the thumbs up for that from the old guard.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, thank God he did something that we can talk

Meredith Oke:

about.

Anders Bolling:

All of a sudden I write an article about the UFOs

Anders Bolling:

phenomenon or about consciousness. And then I can

Anders Bolling:

imagine that some people go, whoa, he seems to

Anders Bolling:

have lost it. What's happened?

Meredith Oke:

He's gone off the deep end again. Yeah, it's so

Meredith Oke:

interesting to me because. And I noticed this,

Meredith Oke:

doing research on all of these different

Meredith Oke:

scientists and physicists over the last few

Meredith Oke:

years. Psychologists. And so many of them were

Meredith Oke:

considered brilliant and they won all the prizes

Meredith Oke:

and they were like, all the medals and they were

Meredith Oke:

the towering figure in their field. And then so

Meredith Oke:

many times in the bio I would read, it would be

Meredith Oke:

like. And then in the last like 10, 15 years of

Meredith Oke:

their life, they went on like, they got all weird

Meredith Oke:

and they went down this weird woo woo track.

Meredith Oke:

Nobody, they must have just got old and crazy.

Meredith Oke:

And it's like bio after bio after bio has some

Meredith Oke:

version of that. And I'm like, at what point do

Meredith Oke:

we say maybe all of these towering figures of

Meredith Oke:

intellect saw something once they, you know,

Meredith Oke:

accrued all of their achievements and no longer,

Meredith Oke:

you know, saw the end of their life coming and

Meredith Oke:

were ready to accept a larger truth. But every

Meredith Oke:

time, nope, they just went, they just got old and

Meredith Oke:

crazy and they write off the bigger esoteric,

Meredith Oke:

more difficult to explain conclusions.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, yeah, I know. I've also seen what you're

Anders Bolling:

describing, especially on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is

Anders Bolling:

terrible when it comes to describing the

Anders Bolling:

scientists that are interested in esoteric

Anders Bolling:

matters. It's the worst. You know that there is a

Anders Bolling:

group called the guerrilla skeptics on Wikipedia,

Anders Bolling:

gsow I think it's abbreviated and they are.

Anders Bolling:

There's a guy in California, journalist I know a

Anders Bolling:

little bit, Craig Wyler, he has taken it upon

Anders Bolling:

himself to kind of expose this group because it's

Anders Bolling:

an active group and you can look it up on, also

Anders Bolling:

on Wikipedia actually, because they're proud of

Anders Bolling:

what they're. And they are, you know, materialist

Anders Bolling:

skeptics who are really, you know, in this

Anders Bolling:

physicalist box. And they have, I think they're,

Anders Bolling:

they actually, actually believe that they are

Anders Bolling:

doing a very, very good thing for humanity. And

Anders Bolling:

so they, they go into all these articles about

Anders Bolling:

people like Rupert Sheldrake and Dean Radin and

Anders Bolling:

Pim Van Lommel and they just change things

Anders Bolling:

because they don't want, they want to depict

Anders Bolling:

their research as pseudoscience. That's their

Anders Bolling:

task. So it's terrible. It should be exposed.

Meredith Oke:

So Wikipedia is intentionally framing any of

Meredith Oke:

these more esoteric thinkers?

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, well, yeah, right, but Wikipedia is not

Anders Bolling:

this group. But the thing with Wikipedia is that

Anders Bolling:

it's kind of user operated. So I mean they are

Anders Bolling:

Kind of. They have become admins of it. And you

Anders Bolling:

can become that. You can. You can apply for that

Anders Bolling:

and. But I think the founder, Jimmy Wales, is

Anders Bolling:

himself a materialist. I don't think he has

Anders Bolling:

openly said that. I support this group and I like

Anders Bolling:

what they're doing, but I think he silently

Anders Bolling:

approves of what they're doing. That's. That's my

Anders Bolling:

guess.

Meredith Oke:

No, I think so, based on my experience with

Meredith Oke:

Wikipedia and hearing stories of how political it

Meredith Oke:

is to even be able to edit on there. I mean, I

Meredith Oke:

know. I know people. There's a journalist called

Meredith Oke:

Alex Berenson. He. He does a lot of. He covered a

Meredith Oke:

lot during COVID and on the vaccines and

Meredith Oke:

everything. And I saw him, he wrote one time,

Meredith Oke:

he's like, I just gave up. My Wikipedia bio is

Meredith Oke:

garbage, and there's nothing I can do about it. I

Meredith Oke:

can't get in there. I can't change it, I can't

Meredith Oke:

fix it. It's filled with lies. And so I guess

Meredith Oke:

that goes back to what we were talking about

Meredith Oke:

earlier, cultivating discernment, and especially

Meredith Oke:

when there's these intentional forces muddying

Meredith Oke:

the waters. Because what you were saying and what

Meredith Oke:

your work covers is that there is a lot of quote

Meredith Oke:

unquote hard science behind so many fascinating

Meredith Oke:

things, you know, quantum biology, consciousness,

Meredith Oke:

and all of it. But then there are forces that are

Meredith Oke:

intentionally making it seem unfounded.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's. It makes you, of

Anders Bolling:

course, then become suspicious towards other

Anders Bolling:

topics as well, if you know that they're

Anders Bolling:

manipulating or doctoring information when it

Anders Bolling:

comes to science and spirituality stuff. Maybe

Anders Bolling:

they have other groups doing the same thing on

Anders Bolling:

other topics. Probably. Probably.

Meredith Oke:

Right. Probably. And then this comes back to

Meredith Oke:

something else I wanted to ask you more about,

Meredith Oke:

because what happens then, and I see this very

Meredith Oke:

often in the health sort of ecosystem. People

Meredith Oke:

become kind of bitter. They feel that they're

Meredith Oke:

being lied to. They feel that they're being

Meredith Oke:

betrayed, and they are. And it's just sort of,

Meredith Oke:

you know, forget everything sucks. Everyone's

Meredith Oke:

terrible. These people are terrible. And it can

Meredith Oke:

create a. Yeah. Like a bitter, unhappy kind of

Meredith Oke:

way of life. And so I'm curious. Your book was

Meredith Oke:

the.

Anders Bolling:

The Cozy, Cozy Darkness of the Apocalypse.

Meredith Oke:

The Cozy Darkness of the Apocalypse. Right.

Meredith Oke:

Which. The point of that being that sometimes we,

Meredith Oke:

like, we. We feel more comfortable saying, like,

Meredith Oke:

oh, everything's terrible.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Is that.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

What is. What was your premise there?

Anders Bolling:

Kind of the background to the title there.

Meredith Oke:

Okay.

Anders Bolling:

Trying to describe how we kind of. What's the

Anders Bolling:

word? Wallow in the Misery in a way because I

Anders Bolling:

mean we can all relate to. And it's probably ages

Anders Bolling:

old. You can, you can imagine people sitting

Anders Bolling:

around a bonfire outside of the cave 20,000 years

Anders Bolling:

ago and there's some person in the, in the, in

Anders Bolling:

the group there telling horror stories about

Anders Bolling:

saber toothed tigers that he met on his, you

Anders Bolling:

know, hunts and things like that. And everybody

Anders Bolling:

was, oh, tell me more, tell me more. So we love

Anders Bolling:

that. And people love also thriller movies and

Anders Bolling:

horror stories in novels and it's, it's very,

Anders Bolling:

very difficult to write. I've heard of Swedish,

Anders Bolling:

Swedish author talked about this once and said

Anders Bolling:

that it's so sad that it's extremely difficult to

Anders Bolling:

write a truly happy story because nobody really

Anders Bolling:

wants it or nobody really is really interested in

Anders Bolling:

it, which is, I don't know, there's something

Anders Bolling:

about the human condition. But then people have

Anders Bolling:

often also had these visions. They've talked

Anders Bolling:

about the global village. And I remember when I

Anders Bolling:

grew up, quite a few people who were kind of

Anders Bolling:

visualizing a world in peace and a world where we

Anders Bolling:

didn't have any borders. And I mean that's still

Anders Bolling:

possible. We're not dead yet, we're here. So why

Anders Bolling:

can't people have these visions? I don't really

Anders Bolling:

understand that. It's strange to me. It's like I

Anders Bolling:

can sometimes kind of wake up in my waking state

Anders Bolling:

and be surprised that firstly I'm still here.

Anders Bolling:

I've been here always. Because I mean that's this

Anders Bolling:

sense that you have when you, when you're in this

Anders Bolling:

life and you. I think it's kind of a, kind of an

Anders Bolling:

evidence or indication that you are eternal.

Anders Bolling:

Because there's this sense that I've always been

Anders Bolling:

around, of course, anyway, that's one thing. And

Anders Bolling:

the other thing is I kind of wake up and look

Anders Bolling:

around and think what are we still doing this? We

Anders Bolling:

have nations, we have even, we even have wars, we

Anders Bolling:

have money, we have what's. What is this? I mean,

Anders Bolling:

I've been having this, you know, since I was a

Anders Bolling:

kid and back in the 70s idea that oh, it's soon

Anders Bolling:

going to change dramatically and maybe I'm very

Anders Bolling:

special. Then I might be strange because to me

Anders Bolling:

it's been natural to think that way. That this

Anders Bolling:

world is one day we won't have any borders, we

Anders Bolling:

won't have any this or that, no races and not

Anders Bolling:

even any money. Eventually we're just going to be

Anders Bolling:

here and do things because that's why we're here,

Anders Bolling:

to do things and experience things together,

Anders Bolling:

invent things, you know, have feelings that's the

Anders Bolling:

reason why we're here. We're not here to build

Anders Bolling:

borders and governments and bureaucracies and

Anders Bolling:

civil servants and, you know, install these kinds

Anders Bolling:

of jobs that people have, meaningless jobs.

Anders Bolling:

That's not why we're here. It's crazy. Can't you

Anders Bolling:

think that, can't you feel the same way sometimes

Anders Bolling:

that it's strange that we're still doing this?

Meredith Oke:

Yes. Especially on the bureaucracy front because

Meredith Oke:

it just seems to perpetuate itself and it's never

Meredith Oke:

going to solve. Bureaucracy doesn't solve

Meredith Oke:

problems. It doesn't.

Anders Bolling:

No.

Meredith Oke:

You know, it doesn't have any vision. It's just.

Meredith Oke:

And it's self generated, it's functionary and it

Meredith Oke:

just, it just exists to expand itself and take

Meredith Oke:

over. And I. Yeah, but at the same time, I feel

Meredith Oke:

like there's always where we are in our conscious

Meredith Oke:

evolution. We, we need a little friction. I mean,

Meredith Oke:

I have, I've been pushed to do some of my best

Meredith Oke:

work when I've come up against really annoying

Meredith Oke:

people.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

And then I break through with an idea I wouldn't

Meredith Oke:

have had without that person.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Or even the work we're doing now if we didn't

Meredith Oke:

have that old way to push back on.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

But. Yeah, then at what point does it. Do we not

Meredith Oke:

need that anymore? We can just sort of exist.

Meredith Oke:

Because I think, you know, we can wrap up on this

Meredith Oke:

topic. I just, I think it's super interesting,

Meredith Oke:

like what's happening in the United States right

Meredith Oke:

now. So I'm Canadian, I live in the US So I have

Meredith Oke:

this kind of front row seat. But I'm not, I'm not

Meredith Oke:

involved. I can't vote. And I see just in the

Meredith Oke:

area of health, there's a new Health and Human

Meredith Oke:

Services Secretary in the United States who five

Meredith Oke:

minutes ago was public enemy number one. Talk

Meredith Oke:

about jumping from mainstream to alternative.

Anders Bolling:

It's happened fast nowadays.

Meredith Oke:

You never know what's going to happen. But now I

Meredith Oke:

feel like, okay, we're in this place where we

Meredith Oke:

were just so angry, pushing back on the

Meredith Oke:

establishment. Like, oh, they're so terrible.

Meredith Oke:

They're doing this stuff. They're doing that to

Meredith Oke:

us. And now it's like, okay, now we have the. Now

Meredith Oke:

we have the floor. It's like building or making

Meredith Oke:

the change or supporting people and it's gonna be

Meredith Oke:

messy. Cause that person is right about food, but

Meredith Oke:

they don't know anything about this. And this

Meredith Oke:

person's talking about vaccines, but they don't

Meredith Oke:

know anything about light. And everyone's got

Meredith Oke:

there becomes territorial and it gets really

Meredith Oke:

messy. And it's like, okay, now we, now we are

Meredith Oke:

out in the, you know, in the ring, so to speak.

Meredith Oke:

We're not no longer on the sidelines. And what

Meredith Oke:

are we going to do? How's it going to go? I don't

Meredith Oke:

know.

Anders Bolling:

Like I said, it's very interesting. It's

Anders Bolling:

fascinating that it's happening. And I think

Anders Bolling:

that, like, exactly as you're describing it,

Anders Bolling:

these people that are now being placed in

Anders Bolling:

different positions in this new administration,

Anders Bolling:

they're being vetted and they're being checked

Anders Bolling:

and they're being scrutinized much, much, much

Anders Bolling:

more than they would normally be in normal,

Anders Bolling:

quote, unquote, or ordinary administrations, be

Anders Bolling:

it from the left side or the right side, doesn't

Anders Bolling:

matter. It's been, I mean, it's been more or less

Anders Bolling:

the same, regardless of party controlling it for

Anders Bolling:

50 years or something like that. But now it is

Anders Bolling:

something different. It is something completely

Anders Bolling:

different. And people are freaking out because

Anders Bolling:

they don't know what's happening. They don't

Anders Bolling:

understand these people. They don't understand

Anders Bolling:

how people like this can be placed in these

Anders Bolling:

positions. So they're being vetted a lot. Maybe

Anders Bolling:

it's a good thing that they are. But anyway, it's

Anders Bolling:

really. And speaking of the secretary that you

Anders Bolling:

were just referring to also in this country and

Anders Bolling:

in Europe and I think all over Western Europe and

Anders Bolling:

Americans should realize this, that what's

Anders Bolling:

happening now in the United States is so, it's so

Anders Bolling:

many people are watching this and it's polarized

Anders Bolling:

here as well. Many people are freaking out and

Anders Bolling:

thinking that this is the beginning of World War

Anders Bolling:

Three or something. And they're just horrified.

Anders Bolling:

And they are only reading the newspapers that are

Anders Bolling:

depicting it in that way as well. So they don't,

Anders Bolling:

you know, get to really understand what could be

Anders Bolling:

said about it from the other side. But also a lot

Anders Bolling:

of people are hoping, putting a lot of hopes

Anders Bolling:

around this figure in HHS now. And because there

Anders Bolling:

was also a lot of controversy around the

Anders Bolling:

pandemic, the vaccines, the lockdowns, face masks

Anders Bolling:

and all of those things here in Europe as well.

Anders Bolling:

Sweden was one of the few countries that didn't

Anders Bolling:

have lockdowns, which I was very grateful for.

Meredith Oke:

That's right.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah. That was a good thing. So we could, we

Anders Bolling:

could.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, your poor guy who made that decision, he

Meredith Oke:

was like getting hammered. He stuck to it, didn't

Meredith Oke:

he?

Anders Bolling:

Both. And I mean, but he was also very, he was

Anders Bolling:

also very adamant that the vaccines were the best

Anders Bolling:

thing that had happened since sliced bread. Since

Anders Bolling:

sliced bread or something like that. So, I mean,

Anders Bolling:

he was. It was. I think he kind of felt that he

Anders Bolling:

had to be that and he had to say those things.

Anders Bolling:

But when it came to lockdowns and face masks, he

Anders Bolling:

just followed the science because it's common

Anders Bolling:

sense. We can't close schools. Why would you

Anders Bolling:

close schools when we have this infection that is

Anders Bolling:

a thousand fold or 2000 fold more dangerous for

Anders Bolling:

people over 70 than for kids? It. It's not

Anders Bolling:

dangerous for kids. Might be dangerous for 70

Anders Bolling:

years olds. And I mean, they should have the

Anders Bolling:

vaccine perhaps, but. Or whatever, whatever you

Anders Bolling:

should call it. The, the medical intervention,

Anders Bolling:

the experimental medical intervention. So. Yeah,

Anders Bolling:

but people are, as I said, also watching this

Anders Bolling:

very closely, even in Europe. So what is

Anders Bolling:

happening?

Meredith Oke:

Yes. No, there is an energy ball unfolding in the

Meredith Oke:

United States right now that is super fascinating

Meredith Oke:

and I think will have ramifications around the

Meredith Oke:

world and who knows what's going to happen or how

Meredith Oke:

things are going to play out. But I do feel like

Meredith Oke:

it's our time to step up. And you know, I. What I

Meredith Oke:

hear you saying too is like, be flexible in. In

Meredith Oke:

how we take in information. Be discerning. Trust

Meredith Oke:

our. Trust our own intuition. Like, how does. How

Meredith Oke:

did this land? How did this make me feel? Am I

Meredith Oke:

feeling outraged or am I feeling like, oh, okay,

Meredith Oke:

that's good to know. Like all these different

Meredith Oke:

things.

Anders Bolling:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

So is there anything that you would like to share

Meredith Oke:

before we wrap up? Anything that's coming to you?

Anders Bolling:

No, just that emphasize what you just talked

Anders Bolling:

about here, that trust your own judgment and your

Anders Bolling:

discernment. And don't follow the news 24 7. You

Anders Bolling:

can follow it a little bit if you want to know

Anders Bolling:

what's happening, but not too much because it's

Anders Bolling:

not good for your health. And also check things

Anders Bolling:

for yourself if you have the time and think for

Anders Bolling:

yourself and take some time off just to do

Anders Bolling:

nothing once in a while. 10 minutes here, 10

Anders Bolling:

minutes there, meditate or just do nothing. It

Anders Bolling:

will be good for you and you will have better

Anders Bolling:

discernment of what's going on out there in this

Anders Bolling:

messy time.

Meredith Oke:

All right, thank you. Very good advice. And I

Meredith Oke:

encourage everybody to check out anders podcast

Meredith Oke:

and YouTube channel. It's Mind the Shift on

Meredith Oke:

YouTube and on all of the podcast, all the places

Meredith Oke:

where podcasts are. And your website is anders,

Meredith Oke:

anders bowling.com. okay, so that's. We'll put

Meredith Oke:

that link in the show notes as well. It's A N D E

Meredith Oke:

R S B O L L I N G dot com. Thank you so much for

Meredith Oke:

being here. We'll have to do this again.

Anders Bolling:

It was really fun, Meredith. It's been true Joy

Anders Bolling:

speaking to you today.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Anders Bolling:

Thank you for what you're doing also with your

Anders Bolling:

podcast and the other work that you do.

Meredith Oke:

Appreciate it.

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The Quantum Biology Collective Podcast

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Meredith Oke