Episode 126

126: Dr. Michelle Jeffries - Eczema "Leaky Skin"? A Dermatologist’s Quantum Approach to Healing

đź“ş Watch & Subscribe on YouTube

"We're not here very long. We're here to learn, we're here to grow, we're here to expand, we're here to connect," says Dr. Michelle Jeffries, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to challenge conventional dermatology wisdom and explore the intricate connections between our skin, circadian rhythms, and overall health. As a board-certified dermatologist with an osteopathic background, Dr. Jeffries brings a unique perspective to skin health, viewing it as a window into our internal well-being and a reflection of our body's complex cycles.

In this enlightening discussion, Dr. Jeffries introduces her groundbreaking "Skin Clock Method," a holistic approach that aligns skin care with natural cycles and circadian rhythms. She delves into the concept of "leaky skin," drawing parallels with leaky gut syndrome, and explains how our skin's health is intricately linked to our internal environment, stress levels, and even our identity.

Dr. Jeffries challenges the traditional dermatological stance on sun exposure, advocating for a nuanced approach that considers the benefits of sunrise and sunset light exposure while still emphasizing the importance of skin cancer prevention. She also explores the fascinating world of quantum biology, discussing how our skin interacts with the environment at a quantum level and how this understanding can revolutionize our approach to skin health.

Tune in to today's episode to discover how aligning with your body's natural rhythms can transform your skin health, and learn why Dr. Jeffries believes that embracing the mystery of our bodies is key to true healing and personal growth.

5 Key Takeaways

1. Embrace a holistic approach to skin health by considering factors like diet, stress, sleep, and environmental toxins alongside traditional dermatological treatments.

2. Prioritize exposure to natural light cycles, especially at sunrise and sunset, to support skin health and overall wellbeing.

3. Be cautious with sun exposure during peak UV hours, but don't completely avoid the sun. Consider your individual skin type, location, and overall health when determining appropriate sun exposure.

4. Get regular skin checks from a board-certified dermatologist to catch any potential skin cancers early, even if you follow a natural lifestyle.

5. Explore the concept of aligning your daily routines and skincare practices with your body's natural cycles and rhythms to optimize skin health and overall wellness.

Memorable Quotes

"There's truths on all these sides. It's having that understanding. But what if when the UV index is really low at sunrise and we're able to get some of the far infrared light into our eyes and our body and there's not any UV risk there, why aren't we suggesting people go outside at sunrise and then what about sunset too?"
"We're here for the experience. We're not here very long. We're here to learn, we're here to grow, we're here to expand, we're here to connect. Like we're on a journey. It's like we are creating a movie here. We're a creator."
"Coming back to just our natural cycles and the natural things and the cycles of the day, working with optimizing your circadian health, optimizing your sleep, optimizing your skin care, figuring out that there are different cycles that happen with our gut throughout the day, that there's different cycles that happen with our skin throughout the day, there's different cycles that happen with our hormones every month."

Connect with Dr. Michelle

Website: https://drmichellejeffries.com/

Skin Clock Method: https://skinclockmethod.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drmichellejeffries/

Instagram: ​​https://www.instagram.com/drjeffries/

QBC Resources

To receive our Podcast Guide, where we break episodes down by category & to receive updates from us, subscribe to our email list here: https://qbcpod.com

You can join the FREE QBC online community here: https://qbcpod.com/freecommunity

Instagram: https://instagram.com/quantumbiologycollective

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/QuantumHealthTV

X/Twitter: https://x.com/IAQB_Foundation

🎙️🎙️🎙️

Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast: https://fullcast.co

Transcript
Meredith Oke:

Doctor Michelle Jeffries, welcome to the QVC

Meredith Oke:

podcast.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Thank you so much. I've been so excited about

Meredith Oke:

this conversation.

Meredith Oke:

So have I. Because we have never had a

Meredith Oke:

dermatologist on the podcast because you, you

Meredith Oke:

dermatologists are the toughest people to find.

Meredith Oke:

Who are, who are willing to acknowledge that

Meredith Oke:

maybe it's okay to go outside without SPF 9000

Meredith Oke:

covering all of your skin. So I appreciate your

Meredith Oke:

open mindedness.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes, yes, there's definitely some open

Meredith Oke:

mindedness. We're not all close minded, but yes.

Meredith Oke:

So let's start how you got into the, your journey

Meredith Oke:

and how you came to, to focus on skin because you

Meredith Oke:

started out studying something else, is that

Meredith Oke:

right? And then you.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Oh, yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Tell us, tell us the story.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, so I, I always tell my patients that I

Meredith Oke:

wasn't born a dermatologist because I feel like

Meredith Oke:

sometimes when they're there they're intimidated

Meredith Oke:

and they're like, oh, like she's always been sun

Meredith Oke:

protected and she's, you know, always done these

Meredith Oke:

things a certain way. And you know, I wasn't

Meredith Oke:

like, I, I tanned, I used to lay out in the sun.

Meredith Oke:

My dad and I used to compete for tans when I was

Meredith Oke:

younger. I did the tanning beds, I did the whole

Meredith Oke:

bit. And so just to kind of ease the comfort of,

Meredith Oke:

you know, patients and things, like, I'm a real

Meredith Oke:

person, I've been through those things. And I

Meredith Oke:

mean, my journey into medicine was kind of

Meredith Oke:

interesting to start with. I had this like, kind

Meredith Oke:

of odd fascination when I was younger with the

Meredith Oke:

encyclopedia and that human body section where it

Meredith Oke:

had those clear pages. And I would sit watching

Meredith Oke:

cartoons thinking, like, I'm going to understand

Meredith Oke:

how all this works. Like, this is what I want to

Meredith Oke:

know. And I was like 7, 8 years old, so it was

Meredith Oke:

kind of weird. And then, you know, I went on with

Meredith Oke:

my life and I had some skin issues. Like I had

Meredith Oke:

acne and I would get hives and things like that.

Meredith Oke:

And I thought if I was, you know, going to be a

Meredith Oke:

dermatologist, it was like adults only. And I

Meredith Oke:

was, I was kind of interested in kids. And as I

Meredith Oke:

was journeying to go to medical school when I was

Meredith Oke:

in college, I had my grandma pass that was very,

Meredith Oke:

very close to me. And then like my first love of

Meredith Oke:

my life passed suddenly to the one I thought I

Meredith Oke:

was going to mar. I was like, okay, I am not

Meredith Oke:

ready for life, death, things. I don't think I

Meredith Oke:

can be a doctor. Like, I gotta regroup here

Meredith Oke:

completely. And so I went into psychology. And

Meredith Oke:

then as I was going through psychology, I was

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, like I like all of this, but I still

Meredith Oke:

want to know about the human body. So I was

Meredith Oke:

taking all these classes and, you know, doing

Meredith Oke:

anatomy classes in my spare time when I was in

Meredith Oke:

grad school in psychology. And I was like, you

Meredith Oke:

know, there's something here. And I was trying to

Meredith Oke:

figure out, like, what kind of doctor do I want

Meredith Oke:

to be. I always had this perspective of the

Meredith Oke:

person as a whole person. Like you can't separate

Meredith Oke:

out the different parts. And so I really

Meredith Oke:

resonated with osteopathic medicine. So I applied

Meredith Oke:

to osteopathic medical school and I was like,

Meredith Oke:

okay, if I get in, I'll go, and if I don't, I'll

Meredith Oke:

just continue my career in psychology. And I got

Meredith Oke:

in, I was like, great, okay, I'm going to go and

Meredith Oke:

I'm going to, you know, be.

Meredith Oke:

Could you just explain osteopathy a little bit?

Meredith Oke:

Because I've learned from moving around the world

Meredith Oke:

depending where you live. It's like in some

Meredith Oke:

places everyone's like, oh yeah, go to an

Meredith Oke:

osteopath. And other places are like, what is

Meredith Oke:

that?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So, right, yeah. So it's all of the same medical

Meredith Oke:

training as a, as an MD and then we have a

Meredith Oke:

different perspective on the body. So kind of

Meredith Oke:

like the come from of where all of the training

Meredith Oke:

and the teaching that you learn about the human

Meredith Oke:

body, it comes from this place that the body does

Meredith Oke:

have ability to heal itself and that if we can

Meredith Oke:

tap into that and support the body, it can heal

Meredith Oke:

itself. And then the other principle that just

Meredith Oke:

really resonated with me was that everything's

Meredith Oke:

connected. It's not like your muscle skeletal

Meredith Oke:

system is attached to the muscles and attached to

Meredith Oke:

the fascia and attached to the organs and

Meredith Oke:

attached to the skin. And you know, everything

Meredith Oke:

kind of use, you know, moves as a unit. So if

Meredith Oke:

they're say, just like from orthopedic

Meredith Oke:

standpoint, if there's a problem with the

Meredith Oke:

shoulder, well, maybe there might be something in

Meredith Oke:

the neck or something in the back or something in

Meredith Oke:

the knee or something in the ankle or something

Meredith Oke:

else going on with that area. Maybe it's related

Meredith Oke:

to the organ systems that are going there. So

Meredith Oke:

it's just that perspective really, really

Meredith Oke:

resonated with me. So we get training on hands on

Meredith Oke:

techniques of where we move.

Meredith Oke:

Osteopathy is, is hands on, but there's a medical

Meredith Oke:

degree underneath.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely.

Meredith Oke:

Actually know that. I thought it was like

Meredith Oke:

chiropractic where it's its own separate thing

Meredith Oke:

without attaching things.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Fascinating. And that's why it Just really

Meredith Oke:

resonated. I could do all of the. Whatever

Meredith Oke:

subspecialty I wanted to go in in medicine, if I

Meredith Oke:

wanted to be a surgeon, if I wanted to be, you

Meredith Oke:

know, a cardiologist, if I wanted to be a

Meredith Oke:

pediatrician, whatever I wanted to do, I would

Meredith Oke:

have that perspective and that hands on of

Meredith Oke:

touching the body and knowing how it works, and

Meredith Oke:

then just that perspective of it being holistic.

Meredith Oke:

So it was like, sign me up. I'm ready. That's.

Meredith Oke:

That's what I want to do.

Meredith Oke:

And where did you. Was this in the United States

Meredith Oke:

that you studied this?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So I live in Arizona. And so my training,

Meredith Oke:

all of my training has been in Arizona in the US

Meredith Oke:

So there is an osteopathic medical school here.

Meredith Oke:

The first graduating class was the year before I

Meredith Oke:

started, so it was a long time ago, but yes.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. So all in the U.S. i just.

Meredith Oke:

I only asked because I. I lived overseas and I

Meredith Oke:

lived in Hong Kong and a lot of the. There are a

Meredith Oke:

lot of practitioners there who came from

Meredith Oke:

Australia. And they were all. They were all like

Meredith Oke:

osteopathoste pasta. And I had never heard of it.

Meredith Oke:

And I was like, I've never. How have I never

Meredith Oke:

heard of this? It's amazing. And they said it

Meredith Oke:

really depends where the schools are. So I guess

Meredith Oke:

in Canada there we don't have. We have

Meredith Oke:

naturopathic, but not osteopathic. And I didn't

Meredith Oke:

realize the Southwest had an osteopathic college.

Meredith Oke:

So that's amazing because I've googled around.

Meredith Oke:

I'm now in the northeast of the US And I've

Meredith Oke:

googled around for osteopaths. And like, that's

Meredith Oke:

like, no, there. That's not a thing up here. I

Meredith Oke:

can't find any, so.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Oh, interesting.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, maybe I should look harder. But I'm super

Meredith Oke:

intrigued that that exists. And that's so. That's

Meredith Oke:

amazing. Okay, so you did your full medical

Meredith Oke:

training with the osteopathic layer. Okay, let's

Meredith Oke:

keep going.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. And then I was going to go into pediatrics.

Meredith Oke:

I kind of had a curiosity about dermatology, but

Meredith Oke:

kind of, like I said, I didn't think I could also

Meredith Oke:

work with kids. And I wanted to subspecialize,

Meredith Oke:

but I didn't really know much about it. I was

Meredith Oke:

like, I'll just go into pediatrics and see how

Meredith Oke:

that works. And then my last year of medical

Meredith Oke:

school, after I had kind of committed to doing

Meredith Oke:

pediatrics, I found Dr. Ron Hanson, who is the

Meredith Oke:

author of the textbook of Pediatric dermatology.

Meredith Oke:

And he was at Phoenix Children's Hospital. And I

Meredith Oke:

did a rotation with him, and it was like our

Meredith Oke:

first patient. We went in and we saw this little

Meredith Oke:

boy, and he had a rash. And. And the way that Dr.

Meredith Oke:

Hansen analyzed the rash and went through the

Meredith Oke:

possibilities of what it could be and what might

Meredith Oke:

be going on with it and how it could be linked to

Meredith Oke:

other things, and, you know, all of that, it

Meredith Oke:

just, like, it was how I thought it was.

Meredith Oke:

Literally, like everything inside my body

Meredith Oke:

resonated. My intuition was like, oh, my gosh,

Meredith Oke:

this is your thing. You gotta go into

Meredith Oke:

dermatology. And then it was like, okay, how am I

Meredith Oke:

going to do that? I mean, to go into dermatology,

Meredith Oke:

it's like, you have to be top of your class. It's

Meredith Oke:

very, very competitive. People plan for this

Meredith Oke:

their whole medical school career. Like, how the

Meredith Oke:

heck am I gonna.

Meredith Oke:

Do that about dermatology?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's.

Meredith Oke:

It's very super competitive.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Super competitive.

Meredith Oke:

Okay.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

So you're like, last minute. I. I want to do

Meredith Oke:

this, but it's the one. Because, like, going into

Meredith Oke:

investment banking or something. I did that. And

Meredith Oke:

they started planning, like, 10th grade.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Totally. How am I going to make this happen? And

Meredith Oke:

then it's kind of like, you know, the universe

Meredith Oke:

always, like, has your back. I guess it just like

Meredith Oke:

it. If it's meant to be, it kind of opens the

Meredith Oke:

pathways. So I shadowed Dr. Hansen as much as I

Meredith Oke:

could in medical school, and I got into

Meredith Oke:

pediatrics, I got into Phoenix Children's, and I

Meredith Oke:

was like, okay, I'll do pediatrics first, and

Meredith Oke:

then I'll just figure it out. And in my first

Meredith Oke:

year of pediatric residency, I got a phone call

Meredith Oke:

from the osteopathic derm residency in Phoenix,

Meredith Oke:

and they're like, hey, we have a spot. You have

Meredith Oke:

to give up your pediatric residency, but we'll

Meredith Oke:

give you a spot in our derm residency. You have

Meredith Oke:

to apply. We have to go through all the things,

Meredith Oke:

but we want to see you apply and see what you can

Meredith Oke:

do. And then Dr. Hansen was starting a pediatric

Meredith Oke:

dermatology fellowship, and he was like, okay, we

Meredith Oke:

can actually do your fellowship, and we can merge

Meredith Oke:

it, and we'll work together. We'll do it

Meredith Oke:

together. And I was like, oh, my God. I mean,

Meredith Oke:

just like, the energy is right. And, like, how

Meredith Oke:

does that happen? And it was like, okay, I

Meredith Oke:

committed to this pediatric residency. Like,

Meredith Oke:

that. That was hard to break that promise. But I

Meredith Oke:

knew that this was the next step of what I had to

Meredith Oke:

do. And so I went through the application

Meredith Oke:

process, the interview process, the whole thing,

Meredith Oke:

and it all Fell into place. I was simultaneous.

Meredith Oke:

This hasn't been done before and it hasn't been

Meredith Oke:

done again. It was a simultaneous pediatric

Meredith Oke:

dermatology fellowship with a dermatology

Meredith Oke:

residency. It was expanded to four years of

Meredith Oke:

training instead of the typical three years of

Meredith Oke:

derm residency after your intern year, and then a

Meredith Oke:

one or two year fellowship in pediatric

Meredith Oke:

dermatology. When I started this, pediatric

Meredith Oke:

dermatology was a two year fellowship you had to

Meredith Oke:

do after dermatology, and then they changed it to

Meredith Oke:

one. It was this magical synergistic pathway

Meredith Oke:

opened up. I was like, okay. Dr. Hanson worked

Meredith Oke:

closely with Mayo Clinic. I was able to go to

Meredith Oke:

Mayo Clinic and get some of the dermatology

Meredith Oke:

curriculum and sit in on that education and that

Meredith Oke:

training too. And then the osteopathic

Meredith Oke:

dermatology program was fantastic. I got to learn

Meredith Oke:

the osteopathic way of looking at skin and

Meredith Oke:

treating it. And so it was a beautiful unfoldment

Meredith Oke:

of something I would have never guessed would

Meredith Oke:

have happened.

Meredith Oke:

Could you explain the osteopathic approach to

Meredith Oke:

dermatology versus the regular approach?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So in our training, we did all of the

Meredith Oke:

traditional things that you would do in

Meredith Oke:

dermatology. So we would do skin surgeries, you

Meredith Oke:

know, biopsies, prescribing medications and all

Meredith Oke:

of that. But we would try to also put into

Meredith Oke:

perspective what else could be going on from a

Meredith Oke:

holistic standpoint. And were there other

Meredith Oke:

modalities that we could bring in for this

Meredith Oke:

patient to support? And then also recognizing

Meredith Oke:

just the. The psychological impact of having a

Meredith Oke:

skin issue where everybody can see your health

Meredith Oke:

issue, and just really like understanding that

Meredith Oke:

component, and I think that was what really

Meredith Oke:

brought it. Brought it, you know, kind of to the

Meredith Oke:

surface for people is like, okay, we understand

Meredith Oke:

there's like this other part that maybe brings

Meredith Oke:

shame or, you know, anger or frustration or

Meredith Oke:

things like that. There are a little bit of some

Meredith Oke:

osteopathic kind of manipulation techniques that

Meredith Oke:

kind of move the fascia or move different things.

Meredith Oke:

But we didn't get a lot of that in the training.

Meredith Oke:

It was very much more focused on addressing

Meredith Oke:

things because they were already so advanced. And

Meredith Oke:

we had to, you know, kind of take it where. Where

Meredith Oke:

people were at at that point where they had

Meredith Oke:

already full blown psoriasis all over their body

Meredith Oke:

and skin cancers, you know, here and there and

Meredith Oke:

everywhere. So it was great. But it was just

Meredith Oke:

that, that philosophy, that understanding, that

Meredith Oke:

connection to the person in front of you.

Meredith Oke:

Okay, so. So the osteopathic model is more

Meredith Oke:

holistic, you're looking at, as opposed to just

Meredith Oke:

like, let's Treat this. Let's treat this symptom.

Meredith Oke:

What's going on with this condition? It's like

Meredith Oke:

more of a systemic look at where it could have

Meredith Oke:

come from.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right. I think it, you know, most. Most skin

Meredith Oke:

disease is like that, though. It's not. It's not

Meredith Oke:

just always a skin issue. There's more to it. And

Meredith Oke:

I think as time has evolved, I mean, this was,

Meredith Oke:

what, 20 years ago? Most MDs are on board with

Meredith Oke:

that understanding, like, they're starting to see

Meredith Oke:

those things. So it's not. It's not so different

Meredith Oke:

anymore. There's definitely a coming forth of an

Meredith Oke:

awareness of. There's a lot going on. And what's

Meredith Oke:

beautiful about dermatology is it is a bit of a

Meredith Oke:

window into what's going on internally. And even

Meredith Oke:

traditional dermatologists are trained that way.

Meredith Oke:

We're trained, you know, in traditional

Meredith Oke:

dermatology because I was exposed to that

Meredith Oke:

training, too, of this is related. There could be

Meredith Oke:

a systemic disease. It could be related to a

Meredith Oke:

medication. There can be other things going on.

Meredith Oke:

So that's the beauty of the skin, is you can see

Meredith Oke:

things and you can treat them, and then you can

Meredith Oke:

see them get better. It's all right there, you

Meredith Oke:

know?

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And I'm reminded, I know when I first

Meredith Oke:

started, you know, like many, many years ago,

Meredith Oke:

reading about mind, body, connection and, you

Meredith Oke:

know, all of the things, there seemed to be an

Meredith Oke:

accepted belief in that world that I think the

Meredith Oke:

line was something like the skin is the first

Meredith Oke:

layer of exteriorization of something happening,

Meredith Oke:

like an emotional disturbance or something

Meredith Oke:

happening internally. I love to hear your

Meredith Oke:

thoughts on that.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So it's kind of like, you know, we have this

Meredith Oke:

outside environment and we have this internal

Meredith Oke:

environment, and the barrier between it is your

Meredith Oke:

skin. And so. And there's connections to the

Meredith Oke:

internal environment from the external

Meredith Oke:

environment. And so this is where, you know,

Meredith Oke:

about a decade ago, I was learning about leaky

Meredith Oke:

skin, and I was in, you know, doing functional

Meredith Oke:

medicine training, too, and. And leaky gut and

Meredith Oke:

all of. All of that. And it was. It was a lecture

Meredith Oke:

where I was sitting in. It was like my first

Meredith Oke:

functional medicine lecture. And they were

Meredith Oke:

talking about leaky gut and all of the pathways

Meredith Oke:

and the immune system responses and everything

Meredith Oke:

was just like eczema and leaky skin. And I had

Meredith Oke:

the biggest aha moment. And I realized, like, our

Meredith Oke:

external skin, where it kind of meets the inside,

Meredith Oke:

is like when we go to our mouth and then the

Meredith Oke:

inside of our mouth to our throat, and then we

Meredith Oke:

have our inner skin, which is our gut. And so

Meredith Oke:

there's this like, connection of everything. And,

Meredith Oke:

you know, our eyes, I mean, there's just like.

Meredith Oke:

And the skin's great at creating a barrier and

Meredith Oke:

doing that, but sometimes we do things outside of

Meredith Oke:

our skin and the barrier is disrupted and things

Meredith Oke:

come inside. And so there was some data in the

Meredith Oke:

past several years about peanut allergy. And

Meredith Oke:

could it be related to what's on the skin? Not

Meredith Oke:

necessarily eating peanuts, but could it be on

Meredith Oke:

the skin? And could it be vice versa? And could

Meredith Oke:

it be this whole thing together? And of course.

Meredith Oke:

Of course it is. Right. And so there's just these

Meredith Oke:

connections. And sometimes there's like a. I

Meredith Oke:

don't know, like a seasonality to your skin

Meredith Oke:

issue. And so sometimes there'll be something

Meredith Oke:

where things only happen a certain time of year.

Meredith Oke:

And the question to ask there is, well, when it

Meredith Oke:

first happened, what was going on in your life at

Meredith Oke:

that time? Was there something that could have

Meredith Oke:

triggered an emotional or traumatic response? And

Meredith Oke:

going back to that, and then there's like, a

Meredith Oke:

memory. And then when that season comes up, like,

Meredith Oke:

okay, are we having a seasonality to it? I mean,

Meredith Oke:

certainly there can be issues with environmental

Meredith Oke:

allergens and pollens at a certain time, and if

Meredith Oke:

it's an allergy thing, but could there be a

Meredith Oke:

deeper link there. Could there be something where

Meredith Oke:

there's something that happened? Our body

Meredith Oke:

anchored that memory, and we know a lot more now

Meredith Oke:

about trauma response. And then it only comes out

Meredith Oke:

when maybe those energies of whatever was going

Meredith Oke:

at that moment kind of seem more aligned. And

Meredith Oke:

then we realign to that and it comes out again

Meredith Oke:

because we haven't quite addressed it fully. So

Meredith Oke:

that's part of it.

Meredith Oke:

Wow. So that's so interesting. So you would agree

Meredith Oke:

that, you know, with. With that kind of thesis

Meredith Oke:

that evolved. I don't know when that. That the

Meredith Oke:

skin. Often if something shows up on the skin,

Meredith Oke:

it's like. I think. Sorry, I'll finish my

Meredith Oke:

sentence. Often, if it shows up on the skin, it's

Meredith Oke:

like your body's first attempt to, like, show a

Meredith Oke:

signal that something's going on. And if we use a

Meredith Oke:

suppressive agent, I think it was a homeopath

Meredith Oke:

that told me this, now that I'm thinking about

Meredith Oke:

it, it was like, it shows up on the skin. And if

Meredith Oke:

we use a suppressive agent, whatever was trying

Meredith Oke:

to exteriorize that way gets pushed back into the

Meredith Oke:

body and goes and does some other business

Meredith Oke:

somewhere else or something along those lines. Is

Meredith Oke:

that like, how would you. What's your. You know,

Meredith Oke:

you have such a body of research in all of the

Meredith Oke:

different areas. Like, I'M just curious how you

Meredith Oke:

could break down even further for us to

Meredith Oke:

understand, like, what the skin's role.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. I think. I think there's truth on all

Meredith Oke:

of it, on all the sides, and that, that's kind of

Meredith Oke:

where, like, understanding the. Both and, and

Meredith Oke:

being open and curious to all of the

Meredith Oke:

possibilities instead of one way of doing it, and

Meredith Oke:

that's the correct way, and that's the only way

Meredith Oke:

to do it. And there's another way of looking at

Meredith Oke:

things. It's. There's multiple different

Meredith Oke:

experiences and, and realities of it all. So when

Meredith Oke:

we have something showing up on the skin, it's a

Meredith Oke:

signal that something's going on. Sometimes it

Meredith Oke:

can be just an external thing, sometimes it can

Meredith Oke:

just be in the skin, because the skin has its own

Meredith Oke:

immune response, its own immune system, it has

Meredith Oke:

its own hormonal system, it has its own HPA axis

Meredith Oke:

in the skin. It can just be in the skin. However,

Meredith Oke:

we also know that everything's connected

Meredith Oke:

energetically and physiologically, so there can

Meredith Oke:

be different signals coming up at that same time.

Meredith Oke:

So if we treat the skin, does it push things back

Meredith Oke:

in? I don't know. But what usually happens when

Meredith Oke:

people come and see a dermatologist or someone to

Meredith Oke:

help with their skin is this is disturbing them

Meredith Oke:

in some way. It's either itchy or growing or

Meredith Oke:

bleeding or destructive. So if we can at least

Meredith Oke:

help them with that, and then if there is

Meredith Oke:

something inside that they can work on and do

Meredith Oke:

those inner links and do that inner work too,

Meredith Oke:

it's synergistic. It's not just, okay, we're

Meredith Oke:

going to dampen the skin and that'll cure it and

Meredith Oke:

that'll be done. That's. That sometimes is the

Meredith Oke:

case, but not always. And then sometimes there's

Meredith Oke:

something inside that keeps coming up. And then

Meredith Oke:

could we address that on a deeper level? Could we

Meredith Oke:

do a deeper level of, you know, functional

Meredith Oke:

medicine testing and, and see, like, what is it

Meredith Oke:

underneath it? Is there, you know, an energetic

Meredith Oke:

thing that can be treated energetically

Meredith Oke:

underneath there? Absolutely. But when you're

Meredith Oke:

coming to a dermatologist, it's like, how can we

Meredith Oke:

fix this external thing and do that while you're

Meredith Oke:

working on the internal thing? Are there internal

Meredith Oke:

things we can do in dermatology? Absolutely.

Meredith Oke:

There's so many things that we can do from the

Meredith Oke:

inside out to kind of help those pathways calm

Meredith Oke:

and help them not be so cumbersome and

Meredith Oke:

symptomatic. So it's like, why wouldn't we want a

Meredith Oke:

little relief from what's happening in our skin

Meredith Oke:

as we're working on those other things. Why can't

Meredith Oke:

we have it all? Why can't we do both? Why can't

Meredith Oke:

we work on it all? I guess that's always, you

Meredith Oke:

know, kind of been my come from is like, well,

Meredith Oke:

why can't we do some medication and then do some

Meredith Oke:

other things if. If that's the right thing? Why

Meredith Oke:

does it have to be only medication and only this

Meredith Oke:

or only energetics and no medication and let it

Meredith Oke:

fester and you're miserable and you can't sleep

Meredith Oke:

at night and you know that's messing with your

Meredith Oke:

circadian rhythm and you know, your cortisol's a

Meredith Oke:

mess and then your insulin level, you know, so

Meredith Oke:

it's just. Can't we, can't we just come together

Meredith Oke:

and do it all?

Meredith Oke:

I love that. Because, yes, I mean, we do have

Meredith Oke:

access to these, to some amazing medical

Meredith Oke:

breakthroughs that can relieve our suffering.

Meredith Oke:

But, yeah, I hear what you're saying. But if we

Meredith Oke:

just focus on that, then we're not getting to the

Meredith Oke:

root cause. But if we are a purist and reject

Meredith Oke:

everything, like, we might not get the relief

Meredith Oke:

that we need to do the work that we need to do to

Meredith Oke:

heal, like, at all. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's asking what if. What. What if this could

Meredith Oke:

help? What if this other thing that seems like so

Meredith Oke:

extreme and weird, what if that thing could be

Meredith Oke:

part of my healing journey? What if this, like,

Meredith Oke:

thing that's been around for ages could be part

Meredith Oke:

of it? What if this prescription actually could

Meredith Oke:

help me too? Like, why. What if I did all. What

Meredith Oke:

if I, like, you know, kind of followed my

Meredith Oke:

intuition about what I need and how these all can

Meredith Oke:

work together for me, like, that's. I don't know,

Meredith Oke:

just asking the. What if?

Meredith Oke:

I'm having this, this memory and it keeps coming

Meredith Oke:

to my mind, so I'm just going to tell the story.

Meredith Oke:

It's like super woo. But I, I was listening.

Meredith Oke:

There's someone I listened to who. He's an

Meredith Oke:

intuitive. Like, that's what he does for a

Meredith Oke:

living. And he was telling a story that he was

Meredith Oke:

getting like a recurring foot fungus. And he was

Meredith Oke:

doing all of the, all of the natural things and

Meredith Oke:

all of the things to clear it and heal it. And he

Meredith Oke:

did like a guided, you know, intuitive session.

Meredith Oke:

And he got the message, like, this is. I forget.

Meredith Oke:

Exactly. But basically the message was like, you

Meredith Oke:

got to put drugs on it. This is like the

Meredith Oke:

energetic imprint of this requires modern

Meredith Oke:

medicine. So go do it.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right, right.

Meredith Oke:

And I just love that story because he's like, as

Meredith Oke:

woo as you could possibly get right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And that's. And that's the beauty of being in the

Meredith Oke:

both hand and being open. So he was woo, and I

Meredith Oke:

think we're all woo in some way, especially the

Meredith Oke:

audience listening to this too. But. But yeah,

Meredith Oke:

it's like, why? Why can't we do it all? Like,

Meredith Oke:

what. What's the hold up here? Why are we

Meredith Oke:

struggling so much? Why are we putting ourselves

Meredith Oke:

through so much? And I think there is a lot of

Meredith Oke:

misunderstandings and misinformation about

Meredith Oke:

things. And I mean, gosh, coming through the past

Meredith Oke:

couple of years, it's like there's a distrust of

Meredith Oke:

things and, you know, trying to trust your. Your

Meredith Oke:

own intuition and gathering information and not

Meredith Oke:

knowing, like, what's truth, what's not, what's

Meredith Oke:

true for me, what's not. And like, we're really

Meredith Oke:

just as a society, figuring that out. And part of

Meredith Oke:

it is bringing us back to the anchoring of

Meredith Oke:

circadian rhythms and nature and all of these

Meredith Oke:

foundational things that have been going on since

Meredith Oke:

the beginning of time and all of that. I think

Meredith Oke:

there's a lot of gifts in that journey of

Meredith Oke:

figuring that out. And the amazing people you get

Meredith Oke:

to meet, too. I work very closely with

Meredith Oke:

naturopaths and some intuitive energy healers and

Meredith Oke:

functional medicine practitioners and oncologists

Meredith Oke:

and plastic surgeons, and all of it. And it's

Meredith Oke:

just depending on what's going on with a patient,

Meredith Oke:

they might need all of that. They might need a

Meredith Oke:

little bit of traditional Chinese medicine and

Meredith Oke:

acupuncture and herbalism, plus maybe we need to

Meredith Oke:

do some topical treatment, or maybe they need a

Meredith Oke:

systemic treatment. And. And maybe I'm dealing

Meredith Oke:

with someone that is very much into energy

Meredith Oke:

healing and has their energy healing that's

Meredith Oke:

working together, but we're coming together as a

Meredith Oke:

team to do that holistic piece.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. I love this approach, and thank you for

Meredith Oke:

modeling it in the world and creating a structure

Meredith Oke:

that is truly integrative in terms you are

Meredith Oke:

integrating all of the things, all of the

Meredith Oke:

possibilities, all of the opportunities. Man made

Meredith Oke:

nature, all of it. So thank you. Thank you, Dr.

Meredith Oke:

Jeffries. That's a good one. I want to jump back

Meredith Oke:

to. You said something interesting that I hadn't

Meredith Oke:

never heard before, which was leaky skin.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes.

Meredith Oke:

And compared it to leaky gut. And you were

Meredith Oke:

talking and you were saying, like, the skin is

Meredith Oke:

sort of the external layer, the actual physical

Meredith Oke:

barrier from a quantum biologic standpoint. Like,

Meredith Oke:

we talk a lot about how our bodies are

Meredith Oke:

energetically communicating with their

Meredith Oke:

environment all of the time. So, of course, like,

Meredith Oke:

the. The medium I Guess through which they're

Meredith Oke:

communicating is kind of the skin. So tell me

Meredith Oke:

what you mean by leaky skin, how it relates to

Meredith Oke:

leaky gut and how it relates and how you now sort

Meredith Oke:

of see the quote unquote, quantum health

Meredith Oke:

practices fitting into it.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So leaky skin. So typically we have these

Meredith Oke:

two cells of the skin, and they link together,

Meredith Oke:

and there's different little things that kind of

Meredith Oke:

go in between that link them together. And when

Meredith Oke:

those are disrupted and open, there's a leak in

Meredith Oke:

that system. It's not sealed. And so the immune

Meredith Oke:

system will try to come there and heal it. So we

Meredith Oke:

might get, like, that itchy healing sensation.

Meredith Oke:

The skin cells themselves might be trying to

Meredith Oke:

repair and trying to, like, come together. And so

Meredith Oke:

they're trying to do different things that help

Meredith Oke:

those skin cells, or keratinocytes is the medical

Meredith Oke:

word, but just trying to get them to come

Meredith Oke:

together and seal up. And when we scratch it, we

Meredith Oke:

open it up more, and then it's like more things

Meredith Oke:

on the external environment can get in. So

Meredith Oke:

bacteria and fungus and viruses and, you know,

Meredith Oke:

all the things. Right. And so our body is like,

Meredith Oke:

okay, now it's open even more. We got to heal

Meredith Oke:

even more. We get a little bit thicker, and then

Meredith Oke:

we start to see that th. Thickening of the skin.

Meredith Oke:

So this is kind of the foundation of eczema, or,

Meredith Oke:

you know, kind of like a barrier disruption in

Meredith Oke:

the skin is where there's an opening. The immune

Meredith Oke:

system's trying to heal it, and then it's. It's

Meredith Oke:

getting thicker. So eczema is also known as the.

Meredith Oke:

Itch, to clarify, like, that at a cellular level,

Meredith Oke:

the. They're becoming. The cells are becoming

Meredith Oke:

kind of looser.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yep.

Meredith Oke:

Then there's a gap. Yeah, there's gaps. Okay.

Meredith Oke:

Which is allowing things in that the body doesn't

Meredith Oke:

want. So the response is to thicken up.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And get rid of it. Get the immune system.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, okay. All right.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So it's like, let's thicken up and let's get rid

Meredith Oke:

of it. Let's, you know, increase that barrier so

Meredith Oke:

that the body doesn't have harm. And kind of

Meredith Oke:

within the spectrum of skin disease, I feel like,

Meredith Oke:

you know, our bodies are meant to repair and

Meredith Oke:

heal, and it may even have, like, a priority

Meredith Oke:

system of, like, what it has to do. So sometimes

Meredith Oke:

skin issues are more prevalent or more allowed

Meredith Oke:

when we're more stressed out. So stress also

Meredith Oke:

plays a role in how our cortisol is being

Meredith Oke:

balanced. So if we truly were having this, like,

Meredith Oke:

extreme version of being chased by a bear, and

Meredith Oke:

we're trying to get rid of it. If we had a skin

Meredith Oke:

sore, the bear would be like, eh, no thanks, I'm

Meredith Oke:

good. Like, there might be something going on

Meredith Oke:

with this bear. Pray I'm going to let it be. So

Meredith Oke:

there's that stress response too, that kind of

Meredith Oke:

almost like allows it. So, so there's that

Meredith Oke:

internal component of that. And then if there is

Meredith Oke:

an allergen or chronic inflammation or something

Meredith Oke:

else going with the body system inside that maybe

Meredith Oke:

isn't getting addressed and the body's trying to

Meredith Oke:

have to have to really focus on that. It might

Meredith Oke:

allow, okay, well, let the skin do that. I got, I

Meredith Oke:

got priorities here. I got to focus on the heart,

Meredith Oke:

the lungs, the muscles, like all of these other

Meredith Oke:

things first. So there's that component that

Meredith Oke:

plays a role. Then you think of, well, okay, if

Meredith Oke:

we follow the skin, like I said, to our mouth and

Meredith Oke:

we go inside. When I was sitting in that lecture,

Meredith Oke:

they had a picture of the gut lining and I could

Meredith Oke:

have blinked and it could have been skin and the

Meredith Oke:

immune system and then the leaks of the barrier

Meredith Oke:

of the gut, the intestinal permeability

Meredith Oke:

happening, and then the immune factors that are

Meredith Oke:

trying to heal it coming in. I mean, it was just

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, I see that in my dermatology

Meredith Oke:

textbooks with the skin. I'm seeing this here on

Meredith Oke:

the screen of gut health. So it was just like

Meredith Oke:

this aha moment of like, oh, it's not just skin,

Meredith Oke:

it's everywhere. Like, it can happen other places

Meredith Oke:

and can it just be isolated to one thing?

Meredith Oke:

Sure.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Can it be linked to both? Sure. Can there be

Meredith Oke:

other things going on? Sure. It's the kind of

Meredith Oke:

having that living in that realm of possibility

Meredith Oke:

of maybe what could be going on. And then to your

Meredith Oke:

point about like quantum, Right. So then we get

Meredith Oke:

to kind of energy and quantum and the tiny

Meredith Oke:

particles and photons and all of the cool things

Meredith Oke:

that I love to geek out on, which has brought me

Meredith Oke:

to you and the training program is basically

Meredith Oke:

there's. There's almost like a increasing density

Meredith Oke:

of, you know, of material when we get to the

Meredith Oke:

physical body. So there's a, there's a point at

Meredith Oke:

which things get a little bit more dense. And

Meredith Oke:

that's where we define, you know, our physical

Meredith Oke:

body. And so, sure, there can be the gaps, sure

Meredith Oke:

there can be, you know, the little photons of

Meredith Oke:

energy and things kind of buzzing around. But

Meredith Oke:

there, I think there's just a density of when we

Meredith Oke:

come to the human body, and then maybe those

Meredith Oke:

densities change as we go more internal. I don't

Meredith Oke:

know if anyone's really defined like the quantum

Meredith Oke:

energy of going in through the skin all the way

Meredith Oke:

into the body and what all those little, you

Meredith Oke:

know, things quantumly look like. But that kind

Meredith Oke:

of makes sense to me is like there's. There's

Meredith Oke:

kind of like maybe less dense in the environment

Meredith Oke:

of. Of, you know, quantum. And then when we get

Meredith Oke:

closer to our body, there's a density just like

Meredith Oke:

the computer. There's a. There's a density that

Meredith Oke:

creates the computer, even though we know in a

Meredith Oke:

quantum world there's a lot of space in those

Meredith Oke:

molecules and all of that. So that's kind of.

Meredith Oke:

Kind of my thoughts on that.

Meredith Oke:

Okay, this is so cool. All right, so then what,

Meredith Oke:

in your estimation. I'm not looking for, you

Meredith Oke:

know, blanket truths here, but in your

Meredith Oke:

experience, in your estimation, what is most

Meredith Oke:

likely to cause that leakage in the skin and does

Meredith Oke:

it. And it's so, so interesting to me that. That

Meredith Oke:

the exterior and the interior are such a mirror

Meredith Oke:

because it's. We're all. It's all the same. Okay,

Meredith Oke:

but what is. What are some of, you know, some.

Meredith Oke:

There's. I think there's things that would come

Meredith Oke:

to mind, top of mind, that would cause that

Meredith Oke:

leakage. But then what are also things that maybe

Meredith Oke:

we're not thinking about?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes, I know exactly what you're asking. There.

Meredith Oke:

There's so much there. Right. And all the

Meredith Oke:

different layers, and especially if we're talking

Meredith Oke:

integrative. Right. So certainly there's the

Meredith Oke:

physiology. There's the fact that the cells are,

Meredith Oke:

you know, we've shown that they're open and

Meredith Oke:

there's this break. And like, what could have

Meredith Oke:

caused that? Could it be something outside in or

Meredith Oke:

inside out? So there's that whole thing outside

Meredith Oke:

in for. For eczema. And maybe a leaky skin is.

Meredith Oke:

Could there have been, you know, maybe the

Meredith Oke:

barrier was a little bit disrupted and then an

Meredith Oke:

allergen got put on and then the body reacted to

Meredith Oke:

that and it got more irritated and more

Meredith Oke:

irritated. And then it, you know, recruited the

Meredith Oke:

immune system in the skin. And then it got so bad

Meredith Oke:

the immune system in the body had to come up and

Meredith Oke:

go, could there be a microbiome issue where

Meredith Oke:

there's a microbiome of the skin and then could

Meredith Oke:

that be disrupted and then the immune system is

Meredith Oke:

responding to that and all these different

Meredith Oke:

layers. Could it be a food and internal that

Meredith Oke:

started in the gut and then, you know, unfolded

Meredith Oke:

into the skin? All of these are amazing

Meredith Oke:

possibilities, and certainly all of them can be

Meredith Oke:

true all at once, too. So that's the other piece

Meredith Oke:

of this is it's not always like, okay, there's an

Meredith Oke:

irritant on my skin, and I'm more prone to dry

Meredith Oke:

skin and eczema. And then I ate these foods too,

Meredith Oke:

that irritated in my body. It doesn't have the

Meredith Oke:

micronutrients to be able to heal. And there's a

Meredith Oke:

disruption in the microbiome. So all of this, you

Meredith Oke:

know, is a little bit of dermatology, a little

Meredith Oke:

bit of integrative medicine, and a little bit of

Meredith Oke:

functional medicine where we can dive deep into

Meredith Oke:

the fascinating physiology and biochemistry of

Meredith Oke:

how this all works. And then there's the

Meredith Oke:

energetic piece of it. And this is where things

Meredith Oke:

get a little different and a little out there.

Meredith Oke:

Um, and the way that I've experienced this with

Meredith Oke:

patients is that there usually is an identity

Meredith Oke:

issue going on with eczema. It's not everybody.

Meredith Oke:

So this is a hard thing, like babies with eczema.

Meredith Oke:

I don't know if this applies, but there can be a

Meredith Oke:

subset of patients with eczema that have this

Meredith Oke:

leaky skin, that don't know where they're defined

Meredith Oke:

in life. Who am I compared out in this life?

Meredith Oke:

Where is my definition? Where is my barrier?

Meredith Oke:

Where is my boundary? Who am I as a person? I've

Meredith Oke:

had a handful of people transitioning transgender

Meredith Oke:

that had horrible flare ups of their eczema

Meredith Oke:

before they were able to communicate to their

Meredith Oke:

family of what was really going on with them.

Meredith Oke:

That is profound. And then once they kind of

Meredith Oke:

define who they are and are comfortable in their

Meredith Oke:

own skin and their own body, wow, that eczema

Meredith Oke:

calms down and could there be, like, the stress

Meredith Oke:

physiology of it? Yes, and all of those things.

Meredith Oke:

But that, like, barrier of like, who am I? And

Meredith Oke:

I'm like, maybe I'm pleasing others and leaking

Meredith Oke:

out and allowing other people to tell me what to

Meredith Oke:

do and who I am and I'm not coming from within

Meredith Oke:

and have this, you know, firm boundary of me and

Meredith Oke:

who's me. And not everybody that's going through

Meredith Oke:

that is going to have eczema either. So, I mean,

Meredith Oke:

some people manifest it in different ways. It

Meredith Oke:

might be a gut thing where, like, they get, like

Meredith Oke:

a really upset gut and, you know, maybe they have

Meredith Oke:

loose stools when they get upset or, you know,

Meredith Oke:

everybody's different. Some people it's heart

Meredith Oke:

palpitations or, you know, it's something in

Meredith Oke:

their heart. So there's. There's all these

Meredith Oke:

possibilities there. So it just depends on kind

Meredith Oke:

of what layer, I guess, you want to look at.

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And, yeah, I guess my question was more just

Meredith Oke:

about saying like, yeah, there are all those

Meredith Oke:

layers. And I think you know, back to what you

Meredith Oke:

were saying earlier about not like separating

Meredith Oke:

them and being like, okay, I have to get to the

Meredith Oke:

emotional cause of this. I have to get to the

Meredith Oke:

spiritual cause. Like there might, it might be a

Meredith Oke:

whole constellation.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right.

Meredith Oke:

And depending what door you're coming in, you

Meredith Oke:

might be someone who wants to start with emotion

Meredith Oke:

and like, so you don't need medication or vice

Meredith Oke:

versa. But maybe it's all, you know, we all need

Meredith Oke:

a little bit of everything at some point. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And it's, it's also an allowance of just letting

Meredith Oke:

it be, let, letting your journey unfold. And

Meredith Oke:

because I don't know what your lessons are going

Meredith Oke:

to be or what you're supposed to do or where

Meredith Oke:

you're supposed to go or I don't know, I'm, I

Meredith Oke:

see. I'm going to give information and a guide

Meredith Oke:

and hold space and do my best to connect you with

Meredith Oke:

anyone that may be connected to your journey. And

Meredith Oke:

then, and then it's up to you what you have to

Meredith Oke:

do. And so it's an encouragement of just

Meredith Oke:

anchoring into what's going to work best for you.

Meredith Oke:

What's your journey? It's okay to make mistakes

Meredith Oke:

and, and I don't think there are mistakes. I

Meredith Oke:

think it's just like we went down one path and we

Meredith Oke:

had a lesson and we learned and we're pivoting

Meredith Oke:

and we're going down something else. And so it's

Meredith Oke:

just, it's allowing that space and holding that

Meredith Oke:

space for people and, and letting them have their

Meredith Oke:

journey and do their thing. And you know,

Meredith Oke:

sometimes the answers aren't always outside. We

Meredith Oke:

resource meaning finding the source within from

Meredith Oke:

looking outside it kind of anchors us back in of

Meredith Oke:

what, what is right and we come back to source

Meredith Oke:

inside and then we reference and then we come

Meredith Oke:

back inside and see and then we might come out.

Meredith Oke:

We might be able to help people who have been on

Meredith Oke:

that journey too, but with the understanding that

Meredith Oke:

it's their journey, everything you did isn't

Meredith Oke:

necessarily what they need to do too. So.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, such a beautiful approach, Michelle. I

Meredith Oke:

really love it. And yeah, I just want to talk

Meredith Oke:

about eczema for one more moment just because it

Meredith Oke:

seems to be like such a determined condition. I

Meredith Oke:

know people who, you know, who have young

Meredith Oke:

children with eczema who, you know, they do

Meredith Oke:

everything there is to do from you know,

Meredith Oke:

circadian rhythm to you know, non native EMFs, to

Meredith Oke:

food to like loving secure environment, home

Meredith Oke:

environments and they have made tremendous

Meredith Oke:

progress. And still this, this it doesn't seem

Meredith Oke:

to, like, be something that likes to fully

Meredith Oke:

resolve or you would, you know, even in a. In a

Meredith Oke:

young child. And so I'm just wondering what you,

Meredith Oke:

what you see with eczema. And that being said, I

Meredith Oke:

have. I'm thinking of one woman, Angela Jensen.

Meredith Oke:

She did just what you, you said. Like, she's now

Meredith Oke:

studying to be a naturopath and studied applied

Meredith Oke:

quantum biology because her. She went through the

Meredith Oke:

ringer with her child. They did an extended

Meredith Oke:

family trip to Mexico. It resolved. They went

Meredith Oke:

back home. He. They changed the lights at his

Meredith Oke:

daycare. It came back. It was just. So, anyway, I

Meredith Oke:

just, you know, especially for the moms out

Meredith Oke:

there, I just would love to hear a little bit

Meredith Oke:

more of your thoughts on eczema and children.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a challenging

Meredith Oke:

situation, especially, you know, as a, you know,

Meredith Oke:

also being boarded in pediatric dermatology. It's

Meredith Oke:

seeing the kiddos and the moms and the parents

Meredith Oke:

suffering, seeing a little baby, like, not really

Meredith Oke:

able to scratch, but just, like, writhing around

Meredith Oke:

and the parent just being like, I've tried

Meredith Oke:

everything. I don't know what to do. I can't

Meredith Oke:

sleep. And just, just the level of. Of stress and

Meredith Oke:

distraught that it brings to families. I've seen

Meredith Oke:

it impact marriages just because, you know,

Meredith Oke:

parents aren't getting along because they're not

Meredith Oke:

sleeping and they're miserable and they're.

Meredith Oke:

They're trying from, like, the deepest depths of

Meredith Oke:

their heart to do what's best for their baby. And

Meredith Oke:

so it's one of those things where we don't have

Meredith Oke:

all of the healing things at our fingertips. We

Meredith Oke:

don't know everything. We don't know all the

Meredith Oke:

things. And so we know that there are a lot of

Meredith Oke:

things that can help. There are a lot of things

Meredith Oke:

that can dampen the response. And it's being open

Meredith Oke:

to all those things and also understanding the

Meredith Oke:

continuum of where it is. So it's considered a

Meredith Oke:

chronic skin disease. So it's probably going to

Meredith Oke:

ebb and flow, and then sometimes there's going to

Meredith Oke:

be things that, you know, trigger it. You're

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, this was it. They had this certain

Meredith Oke:

food and this was it. And then sometimes you're

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, they had that food again and their

Meredith Oke:

skin's fine.

Meredith Oke:

And it's just.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's so frustrating because maybe that's not what

Meredith Oke:

it is. Maybe it's not the food. And then they're

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, it's seasonal. Like, you know,

Meredith Oke:

there's a pollen, grass or tree doing it. And

Meredith Oke:

they do the allergy testing. And they do the

Meredith Oke:

desensitization of those things, and maybe they

Meredith Oke:

still have a little bit. And could there be a

Meredith Oke:

genetic component? Could there be some untapped

Meredith Oke:

things there? Yes. And so what, what I do in my

Meredith Oke:

clinic is like, it depends on where we're at with

Meredith Oke:

things. If we are having a full body severe

Meredith Oke:

flare, like we're going to put things on the skin

Meredith Oke:

to dampen that. We're going to do prescriptions,

Meredith Oke:

and we're going to do it in a very guided, very

Meredith Oke:

closely monitored way to just get to the point

Meredith Oke:

where that being can be comfortable, and it just

Meredith Oke:

takes the edge off of the whole entire family.

Meredith Oke:

And then once we know what works, what can dampen

Meredith Oke:

that response, then what are we going to do for

Meredith Oke:

longevity? How are we going to handle those

Meredith Oke:

flares? And so it's coming back into the clinic

Meredith Oke:

and seeing, okay, I had these tools, and I have

Meredith Oke:

all these different tools. I know how to use

Meredith Oke:

them. This is what I did for this flare. This is

Meredith Oke:

how long this lasted. Okay, now let's regroup.

Meredith Oke:

What do we need to do for the next flare? And

Meredith Oke:

kind of doing that. And it's a lot of back and

Meredith Oke:

forth and learning because not one eczema patient

Meredith Oke:

is like the next one. There's different things

Meredith Oke:

for everybody. So what I typically do in the ones

Meredith Oke:

that are open is I work with a pediatric

Meredith Oke:

naturopath, and then I also work with a

Meredith Oke:

pediatrician who does some gut testing. And in

Meredith Oke:

some of these kiddos, we find yeast and they do a

Meredith Oke:

little mini protocol and they do great. And other

Meredith Oke:

kiddos, they've done that. And the eczema is

Meredith Oke:

still there. And we have to advance some of our

Meredith Oke:

treatments. So it's. It's one of those things

Meredith Oke:

that breaks my heart. I know I can help. I know

Meredith Oke:

that I can get the babies a lot better with

Meredith Oke:

traditional dermatology practice and, and being

Meredith Oke:

supportive and understanding of what they're

Meredith Oke:

going through and seeing them regularly and kind

Meredith Oke:

of giving them something to use to help their

Meredith Oke:

skin and help their baby's skin. What I think is

Meredith Oke:

very effective is if I can give a mom something

Meredith Oke:

that they can put on their baby and it actually

Meredith Oke:

helps their baby, they feel like they're helping,

Meredith Oke:

and it's like they're doing something that's

Meredith Oke:

making it better. There's nothing more

Meredith Oke:

frustrating than putting something on the skin

Meredith Oke:

and it makes it worse. And your baby's screaming

Meredith Oke:

and crying and you don't know what it is. And

Meredith Oke:

some of the common things that I see for that are

Meredith Oke:

the baby products and it's terrible. It's like

Meredith Oke:

we'll have like a certain lotion or a certain

Meredith Oke:

thing that says it's for babies and it has

Meredith Oke:

fragrance in it and their skin's already

Meredith Oke:

disrupted and then they're putting that on and

Meredith Oke:

maybe it's a cream. And creams tend to be a

Meredith Oke:

little bit more burny, stingy. And then you're

Meredith Oke:

putting that on too and it's just aggravating the

Meredith Oke:

whole thing. And then as a parent, you may think,

Meredith Oke:

okay, I put cream on and it doesn't work, so I'm

Meredith Oke:

not going to do creams at all. Like it was very

Meredith Oke:

traumatic, I'm not going to do it at all. But

Meredith Oke:

maybe it's using something that's doesn't have

Meredith Oke:

fragrance in it and it is more hypoallergenic and

Meredith Oke:

it's more of an ointment, more of an occlusive

Meredith Oke:

ointment that seals that barrier that's not going

Meredith Oke:

to burn, sting. So I think if there are any moms

Meredith Oke:

listening with eczema, just know there's a lot

Meredith Oke:

that can be done and there's a lot of caveats and

Meredith Oke:

not to give up. There's a lot to it. And

Meredith Oke:

certainly you can go down a pathway of misusing

Meredith Oke:

topical steroids in this way. So you want to work

Meredith Oke:

with a board certified dermatologist who can

Meredith Oke:

really guide you on what you're supposed to do.

Meredith Oke:

Some pediatricians don't entirely understand how

Meredith Oke:

to use topical steroids, so they refer you to a

Meredith Oke:

pediatric dermatologist. And sometimes you can go

Meredith Oke:

so far down this like testing and supplements and

Meredith Oke:

elimination that your baby ends up malnourished

Meredith Oke:

and not getting the micronutrients that they

Meredith Oke:

need. And sometimes all of it works together too.

Meredith Oke:

So just there's a lot of things there and some

Meredith Oke:

kids grow out of it and some kids don't. And so,

Meredith Oke:

and then why is this happening? Why do we have so

Meredith Oke:

many eczema kiddos? I mean, I think it must be

Meredith Oke:

something related to maybe our toxic load that

Meredith Oke:

we're experiencing and then our inability to

Meredith Oke:

detoxify things that might be one big piece of

Meredith Oke:

it. So we're getting exposed to all of these

Meredith Oke:

different things in our environment and then

Meredith Oke:

maybe we're having toxic emotions, toxic thoughts

Meredith Oke:

too that we're not talking to anybody about. And

Meredith Oke:

maybe we're around toxic people that we can't

Meredith Oke:

escape, like family or, you know, things like

Meredith Oke:

that. So there's all these different layers of

Meredith Oke:

things going on. So I think just a holistic

Meredith Oke:

perspective and knowing that there are things

Meredith Oke:

that can be really helpful. You may not want to

Meredith Oke:

do them first thing, you may be exploring other

Meredith Oke:

things, or you may do them first thing and then

Meredith Oke:

use the other modalities to help support as

Meredith Oke:

things get better. So I hope that helps.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, super comprehensive. And as you talked

Meredith Oke:

about the onslaught of toxins, both physical and

Meredith Oke:

frequency, and how to be, how to detoxify and be

Meredith Oke:

resilient. Let's, let's close out by talking

Meredith Oke:

about like the quantum biologic approach. How

Meredith Oke:

does, how does skin fit in and how do you as a

Meredith Oke:

dermatologist, recommend sun for people?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So this is a big shift that has happened to

Meredith Oke:

me over my career. So, you know, being a

Meredith Oke:

traditionally trained dermatologist, we're, you

Meredith Oke:

know, sunlight causes a lot of issues in the

Meredith Oke:

skin. And so I live in Arizona. We have an

Meredith Oke:

abundance, abundance of sun. It is all the time.

Meredith Oke:

And so there is, you know, something that's,

Meredith Oke:

excuse me, a common sense about it. Like we know

Meredith Oke:

in Arizona in the summer, we can't be out there

Meredith Oke:

in the middle of the day for a long time. Like we

Meredith Oke:

will be fried to a crisp. And even landscapers,

Meredith Oke:

people that work on roofs, like they cover up. So

Meredith Oke:

there's truths on all these sides. It's having

Meredith Oke:

that understanding. But what if when the UV index

Meredith Oke:

is really low at sunrise and we're able to get

Meredith Oke:

some of the far infrared light into our eyes and

Meredith Oke:

our body and there's not any UV risk there, why

Meredith Oke:

aren't we suggesting people go and outside at

Meredith Oke:

sunrise and then what about sunset too? So that's

Meredith Oke:

been a shift in my recommendation is there's

Meredith Oke:

definitely a benefit of exposure to sunrise and

Meredith Oke:

then sunset if you can. And then it's off those

Meredith Oke:

devices at night and going to bed on time and

Meredith Oke:

being able to wake up in time to go out there for

Meredith Oke:

sunrise. And then I learned about the UVA rise,

Meredith Oke:

which I thought was fascinating that, you know,

Meredith Oke:

about an hour or so after sunset, sunrise,

Meredith Oke:

there's the UVA rise and how that helps with our

Meredith Oke:

mitochondria, how it can help with thyroid

Meredith Oke:

health, how it can help with cortisol. And that

Meredith Oke:

was fascinating to me. Now in Arizona, there

Meredith Oke:

might be a tiny window in the summer where

Meredith Oke:

there's Sunrise, UVA Rise, UVB and Boom. We're

Meredith Oke:

like full UVA 8. And so it depends on the time of

Meredith Oke:

year, it depends on skin type, it depends on, you

Meredith Oke:

know, where you're living and all, all of those

Meredith Oke:

things. And so there's, there's kind of like the

Meredith Oke:

nuanced approach of this like there might be some

Meredith Oke:

things that are okay for a lot of people and

Meredith Oke:

there might be some things that are okay only for

Meredith Oke:

a small percentage. Most of my day in dermatology

Meredith Oke:

is diagnosing and treating skin cancer. If you

Meredith Oke:

are suspicious of anything that you think could

Meredith Oke:

be a skin cancer, go and see a board certified

Meredith Oke:

dermatologist. We have a very, very trained eye.

Meredith Oke:

We can detect it where we have different

Meredith Oke:

magnifiers and polarized lights that we use on

Meredith Oke:

your skin to be able to see it. And so we know

Meredith Oke:

that UV light might be related to that. But I

Meredith Oke:

think there's other things too. It's, it came

Meredith Oke:

down to, it's one thing that maybe we can control

Meredith Oke:

or maybe we could do something about. And there's

Meredith Oke:

some other things that maybe we don't know how to

Meredith Oke:

mitigate or control. Maybe there is. Like you

Meredith Oke:

live in a city with a ton of pollution and like,

Meredith Oke:

what am I going to do about it? I don't, I don't

Meredith Oke:

have the money to see a functional medicine

Meredith Oke:

doctor and get my testing and see, you know,

Meredith Oke:

where my toxic load is at and do the detox, you

Meredith Oke:

know, protocol, you know, gosh, like, you know,

Meredith Oke:

there's all of that maybe I don't know what's

Meredith Oke:

going on with my microbiome of my gut and you

Meredith Oke:

know, if it's leaky or not and that's impeding my

Meredith Oke:

healing and I don't know about my stress levels.

Meredith Oke:

Like I'm having a hard time struggling and so I'm

Meredith Oke:

inflamed all the time and angry and I might have

Meredith Oke:

micronutrient deficiencies and things like that.

Meredith Oke:

But it seems like sun was something that as

Meredith Oke:

dermatologists like, okay, that's something that

Meredith Oke:

we could at least give some guidance on. It's

Meredith Oke:

something we can maybe control. And then what

Meredith Oke:

happened is there is a whole misinformation about

Meredith Oke:

sunscreen. Chemical sunscreens have gotten the

Meredith Oke:

spotlight of like, you know, don't put chemical

Meredith Oke:

sunscreens on your skin. And I would say most

Meredith Oke:

dermatologists never even recommended those. From

Meredith Oke:

the beginning. We've, we've anchored into the

Meredith Oke:

zinc oxide sunscreens and sunscreen where you

Meredith Oke:

can't cover and covering with clothing is

Meredith Oke:

actually number one. Sunscreen is probably number

Meredith Oke:

two. And then, you know, reapplying. And so what

Meredith Oke:

also has happened with the industry is sunscreen

Meredith Oke:

used to be sunblock and so then it was, it blocks

Meredith Oke:

the sun and you're safe and you can be out there

Meredith Oke:

as long as you want and you're fine and we had

Meredith Oke:

the FDA take that off a lot of the labels of

Meredith Oke:

sunscreen, because that's not true. It gives you

Meredith Oke:

that false sense of security. And even sunscreen,

Meredith Oke:

it's a screen. It's not perfect. You're still

Meredith Oke:

going to get some of those UV rays in. Now then

Meredith Oke:

we go into. Well, if it's. If you're blocking

Meredith Oke:

yourself all the time, maybe that's not the

Meredith Oke:

healthiest. And that's where I think things are

Meredith Oke:

shifting a little bit, that maybe you get a

Meredith Oke:

little bit of sun without protection, maybe when

Meredith Oke:

the UV index is around 2, so you get a little bit

Meredith Oke:

of vitamin D. However, if you have a SNP in your

Meredith Oke:

vitamin D receptor, it doesn't matter how much

Meredith Oke:

sun you get. You may not absorb it from the sun

Meredith Oke:

entirely. So there's that subset of people.

Meredith Oke:

Right. So we have all of these different, like,

Meredith Oke:

caveats to everything, I guess. I don't know

Meredith Oke:

where you want to go with that, but there's.

Meredith Oke:

There's so much. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Super interesting. So if we are, you know.

Meredith Oke:

Because we talk a lot about that the sun is

Meredith Oke:

actually the source of life and is good for you.

Meredith Oke:

Now, obviously, you don't want to get a sunburn.

Meredith Oke:

That is not good. But what. How do you feel about

Meredith Oke:

a tan? And how do you feel about. If we want to

Meredith Oke:

get, like, a really high vitamin D level in the

Meredith Oke:

summer for those of us who can. Would. Going

Meredith Oke:

outside.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So that. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

From the sunshine.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: There's interesting data about intermittent sun

Meredith Oke:

exposure increasing your risk for skin cancer,

Meredith Oke:

chronic sun exposure lessening the risk. So it's

Meredith Oke:

fascinating now whether or not.

Meredith Oke:

Intermittent being like, I live in Minnesota and

Meredith Oke:

I fly to Mexico and I lie out in the noonday sun,

Meredith Oke:

and then I come back.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Or like, what I used to do when I was little.

Meredith Oke:

It's 50 degrees. I'm gonna lay out. I was a

Meredith Oke:

teenager, I was gonna get tan. And, you know, and

Meredith Oke:

then it's like, as soon as it's warm out, I'm out

Meredith Oke:

there, and I'm only getting sun certain times of

Meredith Oke:

the year. And the rest of the the time I'm like,

Meredith Oke:

indoors and, you know, and. And there's also,

Meredith Oke:

like, we're in front of screens. We're getting

Meredith Oke:

the blue light at night. Like, there's all these,

Meredith Oke:

like, different. Different pieces. But to kind of

Meredith Oke:

answer your question, so, you know, obviously not

Meredith Oke:

a sunburn. But then when you start noticing the

Meredith Oke:

browning of the skin, then it's like the little

Meredith Oke:

kind of keratinocyte or skin cell. There's a

Meredith Oke:

melanocyte for every, let's say, 30 of those. And

Meredith Oke:

what it does and it's kind of like, I don't know,

Meredith Oke:

it's kind of like an amoeba shape, I guess, is

Meredith Oke:

kind of how it's kind of, I think of it. And then

Meredith Oke:

the keratinocyte is kind of like a block. And

Meredith Oke:

what it does is it kind of goes over and it tries

Meredith Oke:

to cover it and protect it. And then when you

Meredith Oke:

have more of that network, that's when we're

Meredith Oke:

starting to see a tan. And then it's, you know,

Meredith Oke:

depending on what is going on with your body,

Meredith Oke:

with your immune system, with your stress levels,

Meredith Oke:

with your exposures, who knows how long that can

Meredith Oke:

hold? Who knows how long that can protect? And

Meredith Oke:

then can that keratinocyte somehow, when it makes

Meredith Oke:

a new layer, because every month we get in a new

Meredith Oke:

epidermis, can it make a mistake? And does your

Meredith Oke:

body have the right tools in its immune system to

Meredith Oke:

catch that mistake, repair it? Are we doing

Meredith Oke:

things at night to detox and repair? Are we

Meredith Oke:

getting off devices? Are we healing at night? Are

Meredith Oke:

we adequately doing that? What is our toxic load?

Meredith Oke:

What is our detox pathway? How are we repairing?

Meredith Oke:

So certainly there might be a small set of people

Meredith Oke:

that, yes, they can BTN and go out and do that.

Meredith Oke:

But there's caveats like, we don't know. And

Meredith Oke:

there's a delay, right? So there's a delay in

Meredith Oke:

what we did when we're younger and what ends up

Meredith Oke:

happening later. And there is like a senescence,

Meredith Oke:

there is a dipening of the immune system and the

Meredith Oke:

repair factors as we get older because the body

Meredith Oke:

is trying to repair all these other things, too.

Meredith Oke:

Then what we did earlier, is there a memory and

Meredith Oke:

is there something going on that gets carried on

Meredith Oke:

later? We don't know how that life's going to

Meredith Oke:

unfold. If we have a child who's out getting tan

Meredith Oke:

all the time, and then later in life they live a

Meredith Oke:

very toxic lifestyle, there might be more at risk

Meredith Oke:

for things. It's so hard to answer the question

Meredith Oke:

with not knowing all of the things and all of the

Meredith Oke:

details and what's right. And then the photo

Meredith Oke:

damage, like, that's real. That. Yeah, that

Meredith Oke:

sucks. That's like. I mean, I would say the

Meredith Oke:

majority of the women I see all ages into their

Meredith Oke:

90s. How do I. How do you help me with brown

Meredith Oke:

spots? How do you help me with wrinkles? I don't

Meredith Oke:

do cosmetic dermatology, but all of us are trying

Meredith Oke:

to reverse some of that photo aging that has

Meredith Oke:

happened. And I don't think all aging is just

Meredith Oke:

from the sun. It's not, there's a lot of other

Meredith Oke:

factors that go in it, but it's something that

Meredith Oke:

maybe we can mitigate. So when we are starting to

Meredith Oke:

notice, like, okay, I'm getting a little bit of

Meredith Oke:

freckling and discoloration on my skin. My body's

Meredith Oke:

not maybe ready for this. Maybe I need to work on

Meredith Oke:

some things if I'm getting sunburn. Like, okay,

Meredith Oke:

yeah, too fast, too hard, gotta, gotta calm, calm

Meredith Oke:

down. And so there's just, there's just so much

Meredith Oke:

to, to go over there.

Meredith Oke:

I totally, it makes, it makes perfect sense

Meredith Oke:

especially like having such a, an in depth level

Meredith Oke:

of experience. And it absolutely makes perfect

Meredith Oke:

sense that there's nothing that we can say like

Meredith Oke:

just do this and have it not be related to

Meredith Oke:

everything else you're doing. So with the

Meredith Oke:

exception of sunrise and sunset, like it's really

Meredith Oke:

hard to hurt yourself with those. But, but during

Meredith Oke:

the, the high intensity parts of the day, it's

Meredith Oke:

like what I hear you saying is that it really

Meredith Oke:

depends what the whole rest of your life is. Like

Meredith Oke:

are you, are you eating real food? Are you

Meredith Oke:

blocking non native EMFs as much as possible? Are

Meredith Oke:

you sleeping in the dark? Are you like all of

Meredith Oke:

these other things are going to inform how well

Meredith Oke:

your body can handle high intensity sun? Is that

Meredith Oke:

yes.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So fair. And also your mitochondrial health, like

Meredith Oke:

so there's an interesting study that came out, oh

Meredith Oke:

my gosh, a long, a while ago, I can't remember

Meredith Oke:

the year. I'm a clinician, not a researcher, so.

Meredith Oke:

But it was about niacinamide or nicotinamide and

Meredith Oke:

how there were two groups of people in Australia

Meredith Oke:

and one group took it twice a day and the other

Meredith Oke:

group didn't take it. And everybody was at risk

Meredith Oke:

for skin cancers that had skin cancers and pre

Meredith Oke:

skin cancers. And when they looked at it a year

Meredith Oke:

later, there's a 23% reduction in squamous cells

Meredith Oke:

and the people that took the niacinamide. And I

Meredith Oke:

was like, oh, of course, mitochondrial health,

Meredith Oke:

it's on the electron transport chain. So there's

Meredith Oke:

something there, there's something there. So that

Meredith Oke:

is something that we recommend is, you know,

Meredith Oke:

there are antioxidant supplements that can help

Meredith Oke:

you as well, to help protect you. It's not all

Meredith Oke:

hats and sunglasses and sunscreen and clothing.

Meredith Oke:

You could also do things from the inside out too.

Meredith Oke:

So there's all of that perspective. And then also

Meredith Oke:

about skin cancer. I mean it's not just one

Meredith Oke:

thing. Even melanoma is not One thing, there's

Meredith Oke:

different types, there's different subtypes.

Meredith Oke:

There are, you know, melanocytes are a type of

Meredith Oke:

cell that is not only in your skin, it's in your

Meredith Oke:

eyes, it's in your sinuses, it's in your

Meredith Oke:

genitalia, it's in your mucosa. So I mean, you

Meredith Oke:

can get melanoma without sun exposure. There are

Meredith Oke:

melanomas that exist in areas that don't have sun

Meredith Oke:

exposure. We do know that we see them more

Meredith Oke:

frequently on sun exposure, those areas. And

Meredith Oke:

melanoma is a very high risk because there are

Meredith Oke:

variants that can break off and spread. And we've

Meredith Oke:

tried to figure out, okay, if it's this deep in

Meredith Oke:

the skin, it's higher risk to break off and

Meredith Oke:

spread. And sometimes that guideline is great and

Meredith Oke:

it's really helpful and sometimes it's not. And

Meredith Oke:

sometimes things progress. And we've done all the

Meredith Oke:

things and we thought it was something that was

Meredith Oke:

in the surface or superficial and did the things,

Meredith Oke:

but it spread more. So there's a lot of things we

Meredith Oke:

don't know about that. And you know, each skin

Meredith Oke:

cancer is named after the type of cell that grows

Meredith Oke:

more than it should. So a basal cell is a basal

Meredith Oke:

layer between the epidermis and the dermis. And

Meredith Oke:

it's that lining. It's the most common type of

Meredith Oke:

skin cancer. And I've heard in different realms

Meredith Oke:

of, oh, it's, you know, it's nothing, you can

Meredith Oke:

just let it be. But there's subtypes, there's

Meredith Oke:

superficial spreading where it spreads, there's

Meredith Oke:

infiltrative aggressive where it goes down. And

Meredith Oke:

it doesn't really look like much on the skin.

Meredith Oke:

It's like a little scar, but it's diving deep and

Meredith Oke:

it's destructive. So why not get those taken care

Meredith Oke:

of with a board certified dermatologist and then

Meredith Oke:

work on like, okay, why the heck am I getting

Meredith Oke:

these? What can I do on the inside? And then

Meredith Oke:

squamous cells, it's, it's, you know, the rest of

Meredith Oke:

the cell layer in the epidermis are squamous

Meredith Oke:

cells. And we have squamous cells in our linings.

Meredith Oke:

So when you google just squamous cell cancer, you

Meredith Oke:

might come across lung cancer of squamous cell.

Meredith Oke:

And that behaves very differently than skin. Then

Meredith Oke:

depending on the type and subtype, location and

Meredith Oke:

size, things behave differently. A squamous cell

Meredith Oke:

that's invasive and we call it poorly

Meredith Oke:

differentiated mean it's kind of like all over

Meredith Oke:

the place and not really defined if it's on the

Meredith Oke:

scalp or on the lip or in front of the ear, it's

Meredith Oke:

a higher risk to go to those lymph nodes. But if

Meredith Oke:

you have a superficial one that maybe is on your

Meredith Oke:

abdomen or your arm, those things less likely to

Meredith Oke:

break off and spread. So there's all these like

Meredith Oke:

nuances when I hear the conversation about skin

Meredith Oke:

cancer information on the different realms. Like,

Meredith Oke:

oh, there's so many things there. And it's almost

Meredith Oke:

like if you think of the types of skin cancer,

Meredith Oke:

it's like watching movie, right? So there's,

Meredith Oke:

there's a ton of different movie choices you

Meredith Oke:

could do or a ton of different limited series,

Meredith Oke:

right? So most skin cancers are the slow burners.

Meredith Oke:

They're like, they kind of slowly will grow and

Meredith Oke:

slowly show up and you're like, okay, what is

Meredith Oke:

this thing? I don't know. This kind of looks

Meredith Oke:

weird. Weird. It's not dry skin, you know, it's

Meredith Oke:

not a pimple anymore. It's a mole that's changed.

Meredith Oke:

It's kind of a slow burner. So we have like those

Meredith Oke:

and then we have like the action packed. Like

Meredith Oke:

this thing's growing. It's coming up like crazy.

Meredith Oke:

We're going in fast and we're getting rid of it

Meredith Oke:

fast and things are going on. And then there's

Meredith Oke:

the happy endings, right? So there's the movies

Meredith Oke:

that, you know, happy ending, everything's great,

Meredith Oke:

we got it treated, we figured out what's going

Meredith Oke:

on, we figured out the root. We're working on all

Meredith Oke:

the things and it's not coming back. And I guess

Meredith Oke:

this conversation can be about eczema too. But

Meredith Oke:

most of them are mysteries. Most of them we don't

Meredith Oke:

know. We don't know how each individual got to

Meredith Oke:

that moment in time. We don't have all of the

Meredith Oke:

information of what were they eating, what was

Meredith Oke:

their lifestyle like, where did they grow up, how

Meredith Oke:

much were they on an airplane, exposed to emf,

Meredith Oke:

exposed to UV light, exposed to toxic engine

Meredith Oke:

stuff from the fuel, exposed to all these things,

Meredith Oke:

you know, were they exposed to a lot of sun when

Meredith Oke:

they're driving? Because we think we're safe in

Meredith Oke:

our cars, but we still get sun in our cars, even

Meredith Oke:

with tinted wind windows. What, what were they

Meredith Oke:

eating? What was their life like? And so part of

Meredith Oke:

this is just embracing that and knowing that

Meredith Oke:

sometimes things are mysterious and sometimes we

Meredith Oke:

go out exploring and sometimes we get information

Meredith Oke:

back and it's really helpful. And sometimes we

Meredith Oke:

revel in the mystery and sometimes that's where

Meredith Oke:

we land of like, I don't know how this happened.

Meredith Oke:

I'm going to move forward from here and go

Meredith Oke:

through what I need to do and find my path.

Meredith Oke:

That's so beautiful. That's a beautiful way to

Meredith Oke:

look at health in general. Right. We really just

Meredith Oke:

want there to be, okay, give me the three things,

Meredith Oke:

give me the three things to do and I'll be

Meredith Oke:

healthy forever. And it just, we're on a non

Meredith Oke:

linear trajectory here and so beautiful to hear,

Meredith Oke:

to hear you look at it that way. Especially like

Meredith Oke:

you have the medical background and all of the

Meredith Oke:

things and you're still able to embrace the

Meredith Oke:

mystery.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, I think, you know, we all have our own

Meredith Oke:

personal health journeys too. Like you kind of

Meredith Oke:

forced to at some point in your life, if you

Meredith Oke:

haven't already, it's probably going to happen.

Meredith Oke:

Not to, you know, wish on anybody, but it's like

Meredith Oke:

we're, we're here for the experience. We're not

Meredith Oke:

here very long. We're here to learn, we're here

Meredith Oke:

to grow, we're here to expand, we're here to

Meredith Oke:

connect. Like we're on a journey. It's like we

Meredith Oke:

are, we're creating a movie here. We're a

Meredith Oke:

creator. What is it? How are we going to live

Meredith Oke:

today? What are we going to do today? What are we

Meredith Oke:

going to explore? What are we going to be curious

Meredith Oke:

about? What pathway, what doorways is that going

Meredith Oke:

to open up for me today? What if I watch Sunrise

Meredith Oke:

and I'm off my devices tonight? Like, how am I

Meredith Oke:

going to sleep the next night? What's going to

Meredith Oke:

happen? And just explain that. What is this UVA

Meredith Oke:

Rise and kind of looking into it a little bit and

Meredith Oke:

being willing to explore and see. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

I love it. I love it. And yeah, and to pay

Meredith Oke:

attention to how our body is responding. And I

Meredith Oke:

will just say your recommendation about Luno

Meredith Oke:

getting spots checked out by a board certified

Meredith Oke:

dermatologist. I wholeheartedly second that. We

Meredith Oke:

have an integrative family physician who supports

Meredith Oke:

us spending lots of time outside. But he's like,

Meredith Oke:

everyone should get checked every year and if you

Meredith Oke:

see anything, get rid of it, get it taken care

Meredith Oke:

of. So I think that's really solid advice and I

Meredith Oke:

think worth just throwing that out there to our

Meredith Oke:

audience because we do love, we do love the sun.

Meredith Oke:

But that is, you know, as you say, we were

Meredith Oke:

infinitely mysterious and we're just so early in

Meredith Oke:

understanding how, how everything really works in

Meredith Oke:

the world. So. So just to wrap up, Michelle, tell

Meredith Oke:

us about sort of where you are now with your

Meredith Oke:

practice. You've gone through many iterations and

Meredith Oke:

how can people find you?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, so I work in a traditional Dermatology

Meredith Oke:

practice that takes insurance in Phoenix,

Meredith Oke:

Arizona. It's in a suburb called Chandler. So the

Meredith Oke:

name of that practice is East Valley Dermatology.

Meredith Oke:

So if you're in the area and you just want to do

Meredith Oke:

a skin cancer screening and schedule an

Meredith Oke:

appointment, we take insurance, we do some cash

Meredith Oke:

pay, but it's, you know, a traditional

Meredith Oke:

dermatology practice. I've kind of come to a

Meredith Oke:

point with everything else, all of the training

Meredith Oke:

I've gathered and all of the things that I've

Meredith Oke:

learned, that coming back to just our natural

Meredith Oke:

cycles and the natural things and the cycles of

Meredith Oke:

the day, working with optimizing your circadian

Meredith Oke:

health, optimizing your sleep, optimizing your

Meredith Oke:

skin care, figuring out that there are different

Meredith Oke:

cycles that happen with our gut throughout the

Meredith Oke:

day, that there's different cycles that happen

Meredith Oke:

with our skin throughout the day, there's

Meredith Oke:

different cycles that happen with our hormones

Meredith Oke:

every month. There's all of these fascinating

Meredith Oke:

cycles. And so I've put together everything

Meredith Oke:

together into a concept called the skin clock

Meredith Oke:

method. And it's working with aligning yourself

Meredith Oke:

and figuring out where am I at with all of these

Meredith Oke:

cycles, where am I at with my rhythms, where am I

Meredith Oke:

at with connecting my health and my body with

Meredith Oke:

nature cycles? And how can I align that? And it's

Meredith Oke:

a four part series and, and it works on this

Meredith Oke:

bigger cycle of life. And I call it the luminous

Meredith Oke:

cycle. But basically it's like sometimes we need

Meredith Oke:

to just start with a pause and see, like, where

Meredith Oke:

am I at with everything? And then things kind of

Meredith Oke:

start to be illuminated of what's going on with

Meredith Oke:

us. So that first step is pausing and

Meredith Oke:

illuminating where am I at with everything? I've

Meredith Oke:

never thought about some of this stuff before,

Meredith Oke:

kind of assessing all of those different clocks,

Meredith Oke:

your daily clocks, your monthly clocks, and then

Meredith Oke:

these bigger, wider cycles of seasonal clocks.

Meredith Oke:

And then the next step is we have to make a step

Meredith Oke:

of like, where are we going to emerge? What are

Meredith Oke:

we going to do next? What are we going to create

Meredith Oke:

with our lives? What are we going to do with all

Meredith Oke:

of these things? How is it that we want to live

Meredith Oke:

and making those decisions of creating and

Meredith Oke:

emerging and all of these different cycles of

Meredith Oke:

like, well, what do I want to do? And then the

Meredith Oke:

next phase is manifesting and really living into

Meredith Oke:

that and actually nurturing and sustaining those

Meredith Oke:

habits, getting into those, really syncing up,

Meredith Oke:

really fine tuning, really refining things. And

Meredith Oke:

then we get to a point where we realize, well,

Meredith Oke:

there might be some things I don't need anymore,

Meredith Oke:

there might be some things that I've transcended

Meredith Oke:

that maybe I don't need. And we're letting go and

Meredith Oke:

we're surrendering of things. And sometimes that

Meredith Oke:

lands us in another place of, okay, I gotta pause

Meredith Oke:

again. I'm not quite sure what's going on again.

Meredith Oke:

I just let go of something that was a big deal. I

Meredith Oke:

gotta pause again. And once, you know, this cycle

Meredith Oke:

of kind of illuminating things, things becoming,

Meredith Oke:

emerging things being nurtured and sustained and

Meredith Oke:

manifested, and things letting go. There are so

Meredith Oke:

many things in our lives that do that. So our

Meredith Oke:

breath does that. We have a pause in our breath.

Meredith Oke:

We have an opening of the breath, we have a

Meredith Oke:

releasing of the breath. We have a pause of the

Meredith Oke:

breath. We have that whole cycle. Our skin goes

Meredith Oke:

through that cycle. There's a daytime cycle,

Meredith Oke:

there's, you know, a monthly cycle. Our hormones

Meredith Oke:

go through that. As a female, menstruating

Meredith Oke:

females, we have a cycle that every week we might

Meredith Oke:

go through a different piece of that path. The

Meredith Oke:

day is structured like that too. So we come from

Meredith Oke:

sleep where we're, you know, pausing, and then

Meredith Oke:

the day comes and we're illuminating the day.

Meredith Oke:

We're illuminating what's happening, and then we

Meredith Oke:

emerge and we kind of go out into the day of what

Meredith Oke:

we're going to create. And the sun is rising, and

Meredith Oke:

we're doing different things during that time.

Meredith Oke:

And then we're manifesting. We're doing different

Meredith Oke:

things midday and later in the day and different

Meredith Oke:

activities and different things are going on as

Meredith Oke:

the sun is going, going, and then transcending.

Meredith Oke:

We're kind of letting go at night. Are we able to

Meredith Oke:

let go of what happened during the day? Are we,

Meredith Oke:

you know, able to release that day and look for

Meredith Oke:

the next day? So there's all these different

Meredith Oke:

cycles, and they merge together. And so bringing

Meredith Oke:

that all together is how you can manifest what I

Meredith Oke:

call your chrono beauty and how you're able to

Meredith Oke:

align your cycles and align all of these things

Meredith Oke:

manifest into who you are meant to be, who you're

Meredith Oke:

meant to be, aligning with all of these things.

Meredith Oke:

So that's what's next.

Meredith Oke:

Gorgeous. So are you supporting patients to go to

Meredith Oke:

create their or identify their personal chrono

Meredith Oke:

cycles?

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. Whoever is interested in it, it's

Meredith Oke:

foundational. It's kind of coming back to our

Meredith Oke:

roots and coming back to the foundations of how

Meredith Oke:

are we nourishing ourselves? How are we living

Meredith Oke:

our lives? How are we handling stress? How do we

Meredith Oke:

see the world? What does that come from? How are

Meredith Oke:

we metabolizing life? And when we talk about

Meredith Oke:

metabolizing Food and, you know, in quantum

Meredith Oke:

metabolizing light is a big part of this too. But

Meredith Oke:

how are we metabolizing just life in, in general?

Meredith Oke:

And so some patients that I see in the clinic

Meredith Oke:

are. This is not aligned with them. You know,

Meredith Oke:

they're, they're not ready for this. It's not in

Meredith Oke:

their vibe. It's not right. And for others, it's

Meredith Oke:

like, yes. So it's, it's, it's not limited to, to

Meredith Oke:

any of that. It's. It's open to who wants to

Meredith Oke:

learn this, who wants to, who's ready for this,

Meredith Oke:

who, who wants to step into this, this level of

Meredith Oke:

healing. And it doesn't, you know, go against

Meredith Oke:

doing functional medicine things because we need

Meredith Oke:

that layer a lot of times, or doing traditional

Meredith Oke:

dermatology and traditional medicine, we need

Meredith Oke:

that too, or doing energetic work. It's

Meredith Oke:

supportive of all of that. And it actually, if we

Meredith Oke:

have these foundational pieces in place and we're

Meredith Oke:

able to recognize these cycles and see where

Meredith Oke:

maybe we're off kilter and kind of realign and

Meredith Oke:

get in tune with that, it might make all those

Meredith Oke:

other things go a lot easier. It might make us

Meredith Oke:

more responsive to those things too. So as I've

Meredith Oke:

kind of like gone out into all the trainings and

Meredith Oke:

then I'm coming back home, coming back home to

Meredith Oke:

all of those rooted things and.

Meredith Oke:

All of those things and metabolizing them and

Meredith Oke:

putting them together into their own unique

Meredith Oke:

offering. That's beautiful. It's so funny you're

Meredith Oke:

saying everything has this cycle because I just

Meredith Oke:

launched a coaching program for, for business

Meredith Oke:

owners and I had this. I was trying to think of

Meredith Oke:

how to articulate something, and I had this cycle

Meredith Oke:

come to me and it was like momentum, which moves

Meredith Oke:

into chaos. Could be like creative chaos or it

Meredith Oke:

could be the overwhelmed chaos, whatever, not

Meredith Oke:

like as a neutral world. And that word. And then

Meredith Oke:

that chaos pushes us to seek further clarity. And

Meredith Oke:

then that clarity up levels the business, which

Meredith Oke:

creates momentum, which. So, so everything is a

Meredith Oke:

cycle from our breath to our business. And how

Meredith Oke:

beautiful you're pulling it all together.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: I love what you just said, because that is

Meredith Oke:

another truth here, is that it keeps up leveling,

Meredith Oke:

like you said, and then you come around to

Meredith Oke:

another cycle, just like you said. And then what

Meredith Oke:

you do now, it builds up to that next layer and

Meredith Oke:

that next cycle that you come around. So just

Meredith Oke:

like you said, what happens in that cycle of

Meredith Oke:

coaching, it. It, you know, primes you for like

Meredith Oke:

that next. And then we go through another cycle

Meredith Oke:

and there's, there's so much I Don't know, like,

Meredith Oke:

a sense of, like, peace of like, oh, that's where

Meredith Oke:

I'm at. Here I am. I'm in the chaos. I'm in the

Meredith Oke:

creative chaos.

Meredith Oke:

Terrible. I'm just in a chaos phase.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right. And then. But there's something after it.

Meredith Oke:

And yeah, I had momentum. Like, this makes sense.

Meredith Oke:

Okay. And then it just, like it allows you to

Meredith Oke:

open and expand and anchor in. And then open and

Meredith Oke:

expand and anchor in. So, yes. Like, you said

Meredith Oke:

that so beautifully.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, this is so wonderful. I love it. I'm so glad

Meredith Oke:

we got to talk. Michelle. Thank you so much. And

Meredith Oke:

I could. I can feel your offer resonating. I know

Meredith Oke:

we're. No one's listening to us right now, but I

Meredith Oke:

can feel in the quantum field, I could hear

Meredith Oke:

everyone going, I want to work with Michelle. So

Meredith Oke:

just to clarify that the chrono beauty piece is.

Meredith Oke:

You see people virtually. It's not necessarily at

Meredith Oke:

the clinic. That's a separate.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's. Yeah, it's completely separate. And so it's

Meredith Oke:

just an online program. It's going to be a series

Meredith Oke:

of online meditation retreats that are optimized

Meredith Oke:

for an optimal circadian day. And so each piece

Meredith Oke:

of it is going to go through one part of the

Meredith Oke:

cycle. And as you go through that cycle, you're

Meredith Oke:

going to go through an optimized circadian day.

Meredith Oke:

Like, we're going to have something happening at

Meredith Oke:

sunrise and then at Uva rise. You know, what are

Meredith Oke:

we. What are we doing now? What is our skin up to

Meredith Oke:

now? What's our gut up to now? You know, all of

Meredith Oke:

that. And so walking you through all those

Meredith Oke:

pieces. So it's still in the. In the. I don't

Meredith Oke:

know, in the ethers of creation. And so if you

Meredith Oke:

join me on Instagram. Instagram @Doctor Jeffries,

Meredith Oke:

or you go to my website, DrMichelleJeffries.com

Meredith Oke:

or the Skin Clock method. Eventually there'll be

Meredith Oke:

things where you can go on the wait list and get

Meredith Oke:

signed up for it, but it's coming very, very

Meredith Oke:

soon. We're putting on some of those final

Meredith Oke:

touches and final evolutions of it. So thank you.

Meredith Oke:

I love it. And so. And we'll put the. We'll put

Meredith Oke:

the links to all of that in the show notes as

Meredith Oke:

well. I'm just. Just for people who are, like,

Meredith Oke:

driving and will never look at the show notes.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle jeffries.com. so D R M I C H E L L E

Meredith Oke:

J E F F r I e s.com or, or your Instagram. Thank

Meredith Oke:

you so much. This was pleasure. Pleasure. And as

Meredith Oke:

you were talking, I'm like, I have 10 more

Meredith Oke:

questions about that. I have 10 more questions

Meredith Oke:

about that. So we'll have to do it again.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. I know. There's just so much. I was

Meredith Oke:

so excited to talk to you about this podcast and

Meredith Oke:

all the things. There's just so much to talk

Meredith Oke:

about and so many layers. And I just. I so

Meredith Oke:

appreciate all the work that you're doing, and

Meredith Oke:

I'm so grateful that I came across you. As I was

Meredith Oke:

looking into, gosh, I want to learn more about

Meredith Oke:

quantum and circadian. What courses are

Meredith Oke:

available, what. What programs are available? And

Meredith Oke:

I was like, you know, going to these university

Meredith Oke:

websites, I'm like, I don't want another degree.

Meredith Oke:

I just. I just want to learn more. What can I do?

Meredith Oke:

What conferences are available. And that is how I

Meredith Oke:

stumbled on you. And so, so grateful. And I

Meredith Oke:

listened to your podcast. I learned so much. It

Meredith Oke:

keeps my mind open, it keeps my heart open. And I

Meredith Oke:

just. I just love all that you're doing and the

Meredith Oke:

rabbit holes that you go on. I'm right there with

Meredith Oke:

you.

Meredith Oke:

Thank you. Thank you really a lot for saying

Meredith Oke:

that, because sometimes it's just like jumping

Meredith Oke:

into the void. And I so appreciate your support.

Meredith Oke:

I can feel it. And I'm so glad you found us. What

Meredith Oke:

you're offering to the world is really

Meredith Oke:

outstanding, so thanks.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Well, you've played a piece in it, for sure.

Meredith Oke:

Thank you.

Meredith Oke:

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Thank you.

All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for The Quantum Biology Collective Podcast
The Quantum Biology Collective Podcast

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Meredith Oke

Meredith Oke