135: Sarah Kleiner - Consistency Over Perfection: How to Build a Healthier Life with Sunlight

Meredith Oke: 00:05:01

Sarah Kleiner, welcome back. Good to see you.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:05:05

Good to see you. As always. Thank you for having

Sarah Kleiner: 00:05:07

me.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:09

I love having you. And I'm excited because today

Meredith Oke: 00:05:12

we're going to talk about sunlight and all the

Meredith Oke: 00:05:16

ways that it's amazing for us. But first I wanted

Meredith Oke: 00:05:20

to start. So I did an interview earlier this week

Meredith Oke: 00:05:26

with the founders husband and wife who founded

Meredith Oke: 00:05:29

Boncharge. And because they're in Australia, the

Meredith Oke: 00:05:32

interview is at like 8pm so when I was having

Meredith Oke: 00:05:35

dinner with the family, I made all my children

Meredith Oke: 00:05:39

come up with questions for the Bontarsh people.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:42

And my daughter Twyla, who's 11, she was like,

Meredith Oke: 00:05:46

ask, ask him how the orange glasses get orange.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:50

So I did, and it was like a really fun answer

Meredith Oke: 00:05:52

that I'm like, I didn't actually know that. So I

Meredith Oke: 00:05:55

said, twyla, that was a really good question.

Meredith Oke: 00:05:57

Thanks. She's like, no problem. When's your next

Meredith Oke: 00:05:59

podcast? I'm like, it's with my friend Sarah

Meredith Oke: 00:06:01

Kleiner. And she's like, oh, does she do. I said,

Meredith Oke: 00:06:04

she's a health coach. She's like, okay, you

Meredith Oke: 00:06:08

should ask her why she became a health coach. And

Meredith Oke: 00:06:12

I was like, oh, gosh, okay. And then she pauses

Meredith Oke: 00:06:15

and she goes, does she have any siblings? I said,

Meredith Oke: 00:06:18

yeah, she has a sister. She said, two. Two

Meredith Oke: 00:06:22

sisters. Okay. She goes, you should ask her what

Meredith Oke: 00:06:26

they think of all this quantum biology stuff. I

Meredith Oke: 00:06:31

love that.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:06:35

I should have her over to help me questions for

Sarah Kleiner: 00:06:38

my guests.

Meredith Oke: 00:06:40

She's available.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:06:43

Amazing summer internship.

Meredith Oke: 00:06:48

So anyway, I feel like that's actually fun. Like,

Meredith Oke: 00:06:50

what, what do your sisters think of all this?

Meredith Oke: 00:06:55

Because I know it's, it's, you know. Yeah, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:06:58

like everyone has people in their family who are

Meredith Oke: 00:07:00

like, what are you talking about?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:02

Yeah, I'm the black sheep of the family.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:04

Absolutely. Yeah. We just say that we are very. I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:11

mean, I love my sisters very, very dearly. And

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:14

we're close. We talk almost every day, really,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:18

but we don't talk about health because we have a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:21

lot of disagreements on that topic. And yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:27

it's, it can be a little bit touchy that we

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:29

definitely choose to raise our children

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:31

differently than one another and we choose to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:34

live our lives differently. And yeah, and it's,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:40

it's a touchy situation. There's definitely

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:44

differences in our health. I will say that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:48

without kind of. I don't know, I love them so

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:50

much, you know, so I never want to talk badly

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:52

about my own family, but I. It's hard to watch my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:56

sisters who are younger than me. I'm the oldest

Sarah Kleiner: 00:07:58

it's hard to watch them begin to really struggle

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:01

with their health. We're in our 40s. I just

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:04

turned 46 yesterday.

Meredith Oke: 00:08:07

And happy birthday.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:09

Thank you. They're younger than me, and so I. I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:13

have a hard time, like, biting my tongue and not

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:16

saying stuff because. Because I'm like, that is.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:18

That problem you're dealing with is completely

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:21

preventable through sunlight exposure, diet,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:25

lifestyle changes. But they kind of. I think

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:29

they've seen me go through so many different ways

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:33

of looking at health and trying on so many

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:35

different hats over the years. And it's been.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:38

Since we were, like, children, you know, I was

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:41

always the one getting them to dance to Richard

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:44

Simmons sweating to the oldies, you know, like.

Meredith Oke: 00:08:50

They would.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:51

Come along on my wild ideas. They're like, okay.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:54

And then after a while, they're like, she's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:57

insane. We're not doing this anymore. So I get

Sarah Kleiner: 00:08:59

it. I understand why they don't want to, like,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:09:03

listen. But. Yeah, that's kind of that story.

Meredith Oke: 00:09:08

Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah. And my. My.

Meredith Oke: 00:09:12

I have a brother. He's like, 100 uninterested in

Meredith Oke: 00:09:16

any of this. He's like, but, yeah, you can. We

Meredith Oke: 00:09:21

can still have a relationship and do all the

Meredith Oke: 00:09:23

things and. And it's fun. You know, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:09:25

interesting. The eye of the beholder, right?

Meredith Oke: 00:09:27

Because when it. When it's your sister and you're

Meredith Oke: 00:09:28

like, oh, God, what is she into now? But, you

Meredith Oke: 00:09:32

know, as. As a friend, as a colleague, I see it

Meredith Oke: 00:09:35

as, you know, the evolution of your education,

Meredith Oke: 00:09:39

trying all of these different things, and your

Meredith Oke: 00:09:42

spiritual development and your, you know, growth

Meredith Oke: 00:09:45

as a practitioner is through the experiential

Meredith Oke: 00:09:50

learning that you had by trying things out since

Meredith Oke: 00:09:52

you were a child.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:09:54

You learn a lot about what doesn't work. You

Sarah Kleiner: 00:09:56

know, you really do. And that's a lot of. On

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:00

social media right now. I just did a post about

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:03

nutrition. Half truths. Because it seems as

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:08

though if you really talk an authoritative tone

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:10

and you talk down to people, even if what you're

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:14

saying is not true or there's maybe a bit of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:16

truth to it, that people really love that and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:20

they really will. You'll grow fast. You'll go

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:22

viral. You'll get all the clicks and the likes,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:25

and I can't operate that way, number one. But

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:29

number two, it's really become the. The lay of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:32

the land, unfortunately. And it's hurting people.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:35

It is really hurting, hurting people. I sit

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:37

across from people on zoom on a very regular

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:40

basis that they have bought in, like, really 100,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:45

bought into some of these really polarizing

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:47

people online. And I did the same thing. Like I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:50

said, I've learned a lot about what doesn't work,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:54

and it's. It's not good what happens to people on

Sarah Kleiner: 00:10:56

the other end. You know, I wish that people that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:00

have made these online Personas could see the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:03

things that I see. Maybe they do. Maybe they do.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:05

I don't know. Maybe they get the emails and the.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:08

The messages from people, or maybe they've chosen

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:10

to. To look a blind eye, you know, draw a blind

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:14

eye towards it. I don't know. But it's wild out

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:18

there.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:20

Yeah, it is. And you're right. I mean, there's

Meredith Oke: 00:11:22

something about someone just speaking

Meredith Oke: 00:11:24

authoritatively and like, maybe. Maybe making you

Meredith Oke: 00:11:27

feel, like, a little bit stupid. And you're just

Meredith Oke: 00:11:31

like, what? Tell me more. And having it be on a

Meredith Oke: 00:11:35

screen. There's like, something about your

Meredith Oke: 00:11:39

professional views, like an authoritative

Meredith Oke: 00:11:43

presence, camera work and good editing and.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:48

Yeah, that's how it works, you guys. It's called

Sarah Kleiner: 00:11:50

the mainstream media that you've rejected.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:54

Yes, but that's the thing. We were trained on it.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:58

So we're like, I'm gonna reject those people on

Meredith Oke: 00:12:01

cnn, but like, this guy on Instagram can feed me

Meredith Oke: 00:12:04

any nonsense. It's fine.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:08

I'm just not interested in having con. I want to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:10

have thoughtful dialogue with people. I want to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:13

connect with people and have a meaningful

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:17

conversation. I really do. I don't want to tell

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:20

people exactly what to do because I don't know

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:23

exactly what someone should do. I know some great

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:27

foundations that I think everyone should have in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:29

place, but there's so much nuance to. In. To the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:34

individual person, and it does a big disservice

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:38

when we make people think that they can't survive

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:42

without us. You know, I think a post I did

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:45

recently that said something like, the. The worst

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:49

teachers are the ones that think that the healing

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:52

was all because of them, you know, that you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:55

couldn't do it without them. And the best

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:57

teachers are the ones who remind you that the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:12:59

healing was yours all along, you know? Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:13:05

Yes. And to empower ourselves to. To remember

Meredith Oke: 00:13:09

that. And while we have help along the way and

Meredith Oke: 00:13:13

support along the way and learn from mentors and

Meredith Oke: 00:13:15

practitioners, it's inner work. And so you

Meredith Oke: 00:13:22

mentioned foundational pieces that are to have in

Meredith Oke: 00:13:25

place. And then beyond that, there's lots of

Meredith Oke: 00:13:27

nuance. So one of those foundational pieces is

Meredith Oke: 00:13:32

for sure, the sun and sunlight. And I just want

Meredith Oke: 00:13:38

to do a deep dive into that. We have a lot of new

Meredith Oke: 00:13:40

listeners and even people who've been around for

Meredith Oke: 00:13:42

a while. It's like, I think it's really worth

Meredith Oke: 00:13:45

just going through some of the key ways that we

Meredith Oke: 00:13:50

benefit from not cutting ourselves off from what

Meredith Oke: 00:13:54

is essentially the source of light, of life. And,

Meredith Oke: 00:13:57

you know, we talk about obviously safe and

Meredith Oke: 00:14:00

sensible ways to do that. But let's just start

Meredith Oke: 00:14:02

with why we need the sun.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:09

Well, light really gives the body instructions to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:12

do everything we need it to do. That's a basic.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:16

We want the right type of light at the right

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:18

times, and then the right, you know, enough

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:21

darkness and darkness period at the right times.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:24

This clock in our brain called the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:27

superchiasmatic nucleus, it really is giving

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:30

instructions to everything in your body. And so

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:35

were meant to run on what's called a circadian

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:37

rhythm. Now, this is being studied in big pharma.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:42

You know, it has been for a long time. I know

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:44

you've had Dr. See, hold on here. And he and I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:46

talked about the same thing of this whole thing

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:48

of medicine studying the circadian timing of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:54

medication, how certain times of day it's going

Sarah Kleiner: 00:14:57

to work better. Certain times of day, there's a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:00

chance for more toxicity. Our body is the same

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:02

thing. Our gut runs on this rhythm. You know,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:05

certain times of the day we have more digestive

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:08

function, more stomach acid, more enzymatic

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:11

function. Certain times of the day, hormones are

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:14

meant to start going in a. In a symphony run on a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:19

circadian rhythm. Again, this should be signaled

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:23

by light and darkness. And so if we're missing

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:27

these crucial elements, and as a fa, it's a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:30

foundation, our metabolism's not going to work

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:34

properly, our gut's not going to work properly,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:36

our brain's not going to work properly. The, the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:39

information on circadian health and mental health

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:41

is extensive. You know, all the dysfunction, all

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:47

the things that everyone talks about, gut health,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:49

mental health and hormone health, those are the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:52

big hot topics in the holistic wellness and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:55

alternative wellness space. That's a foundation,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:15:59

you know, for any of these things to work. And I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:01

think that people are so quick to look at what

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:05

supplement can I take and what diet can I do? And

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:08

not that those things don't have a time and a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:10

place, but if the foundation is weak, as in your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:13

circadian rhythms aren't dialed in, good luck,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:18

you know, good luck with those things working as

Sarah Kleiner: 00:16:20

effectively as they could or should.

Meredith Oke: 00:16:24

Right? And I think that's the piece that so many

Meredith Oke: 00:16:29

people are still missing. It's like, oh, yeah, I

Meredith Oke: 00:16:31

guess I feel better when I go outside. But it's

Meredith Oke: 00:16:33

like, you wouldn't go a day without Drinking

Meredith Oke: 00:16:37

water. Right. Like, you wouldn't go an extended

Meredith Oke: 00:16:40

period of time without eating real food. And yet

Meredith Oke: 00:16:44

we still sort of. I don't think it's truly

Meredith Oke: 00:16:48

landed. I know for a lot of people listening to

Meredith Oke: 00:16:50

this podcast, it has. But for all your friends

Meredith Oke: 00:16:54

and neighbors and family. Right. Like, it hasn't

Meredith Oke: 00:16:57

truly landed. Like, we are an extension of this

Meredith Oke: 00:17:04

light source and without it, we can't. Like,

Meredith Oke: 00:17:09

everything else is a band aid.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:11

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We can keep trying to push

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:17

things together and make things work, but if you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:19

don't have the foundation, like I said, good

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:21

luck. It's going to be that much more difficult

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:24

cold. So metabolism is a big one. You know, I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:28

always. I always say I kind of trick people to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:31

come into my deeper work through talking about

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:34

weight loss, because, yeah, you can use this to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:38

improve your metabolism. I have, you know, I've

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:41

struggled with my weight my entire life. Has lost

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:44

£100, three times. Just really a lot of struggles

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:49

with my metabolic health. Even on a really quote

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:53

unquote clean diet. My fasting blood sugar was

Sarah Kleiner: 00:17:57

still high. It was still 90s low 100s, a lot of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:02

days. And until I added these elements of light.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:06

And it's very simple. People think it has to be

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:09

the way that we're taught a specific protocol and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:13

getting X amount of minutes. And it doesn't have

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:17

to be perfect, but you do have to provide the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:20

brain with the right signals for the metabolism

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:22

to function optimally. And what the research

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:25

clearly shows us is that if your days, your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:29

mornings are too dim and your nights are too

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:33

bright, then that alone slows down the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:36

metabolism. So you can again go on a very

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:40

restrictive diet. Eat clean, try to do all the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:43

things, yet live the way that everyone lives,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:46

which is waking up in the morning, looking at the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:50

phone, turning on lights indoors and indoors.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:53

Your lux, which is a measure of brightness, is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:56

going to max out typically around 500, and that's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:18:59

very, very bright. I would say the lux in my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:02

house when I've measured it, is like 30, because

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:05

we don't do a bunch of overhead lights. When you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:08

go outdoors, even on a cloudy, overcast day, the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:12

lux can get up to like 10,000. And the brain

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:15

needs a minimum of about a thousand. When you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:18

look at all the data and the research together,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:20

it needs about a minimum of a thousand. You know,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:23

up to 10,000 in that morning window. As well as

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:27

the signals from sunlight, we get the red, the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:33

infrared, that's important for mitochondria, we

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:35

get UV light, that's important for metabolism,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:39

for fat burning. We get all of that from simply

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:41

stepping outside during those, those windows of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:43

time. It's such a, it's such a huge boost for the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:47

metabolism and the mitochondria, which is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:49

essentially the body's energy management system.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:52

If those don't work, then again, good luck. But

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:56

our indoor living, our modern life prevents us

Sarah Kleiner: 00:19:59

from getting those signals. There's no red and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:02

infrared indoors. There's no UV light indoors

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:05

because we have energy efficient homes and we've

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:08

been taught that UV light is harmful. So we block

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:12

it all out so that alone can slow down your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:16

metabolism. And that has been studied over and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:20:19

over again. So you can fact check.

Meredith Oke: 00:20:21

This is crazy. I mean, this is crazy. Like, if I,

Meredith Oke: 00:20:24

you know, I was talking to my college roommate a

Meredith Oke: 00:20:28

few months ago and she's like, oh, I put on

Meredith Oke: 00:20:30

weight, you know, I didn't change anything. It

Meredith Oke: 00:20:32

was, you know, it's hormonal. And so she, you

Meredith Oke: 00:20:35

know, we just like revert back to what we learned

Meredith Oke: 00:20:38

when we were paying attention, even if it was 10

Meredith Oke: 00:20:41

years ago, 20 years ago, whatever. So she's like,

Meredith Oke: 00:20:42

I got, I gotta get a peloton and like start, you

Meredith Oke: 00:20:46

know, skipping lunch or something. And the idea

Meredith Oke: 00:20:51

that, that her, you know, her hormones and her

Meredith Oke: 00:20:54

metabolism is all, you know, all is connected

Meredith Oke: 00:20:57

are, could be affected by the light that she's

Meredith Oke: 00:21:01

getting. Like she was, you know, like, it just

Meredith Oke: 00:21:04

seemed insane. So tell us like a little more

Meredith Oke: 00:21:09

about, about how light controls our metabolism.

Meredith Oke: 00:21:14

Right. Like this is for, I know this is like,

Meredith Oke: 00:21:17

this is for my college roommate Julie. That's who

Meredith Oke: 00:21:20

this question is for.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:23

Well, there's a lot of elements to light that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:27

signal the metabolism. I kind of just jumbled

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:29

them all in there. But to break it down, simply

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:33

sunrise is when we get that first little hit of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:36

blue that tells the brain let's, you know, turn

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:39

off melatonin, start gradually making cortisol.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:43

And if you, if you go online, there's this whole

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:47

cortisol face. Cortisol this, cortisol that.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:50

Cortisol is the root of all evil for weight gain.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:52

And the reason you're gaining weight is your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:54

cortisol. And it's like, again, like, it's a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:21:58

partial truth. We are meant to have cortisol rise

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:02

in the morning and that's with that timing of the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:04

blue light that's from outdoors. So at sunrise we

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:07

get this beautiful red and infrared that speaks

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:11

directly to mitochondria, that allows us to make

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:14

this metabolic water, that allows us to expand

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:18

the cellular water in the body, which is like a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:20

battery of Energy. So you think about, we're

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:23

supporting mitochondria, which, as I mentioned,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:25

is the body's energy management system. By

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:27

getting out there at sunrise, getting that hit of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:30

blue light. It's a very little bit of blue light

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:32

that comes on the horizon at sunrise. And it's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:35

gradual to make cortisol in this natural, gradual

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:38

way. Now, I mentioned Lux. There's a difference

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:42

between Lux and Kelvin. I know this can confuse

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:45

people. There's a lux meter in my app, my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:47

circadian app, that we'll talk about later on in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:50

the episode, I'm sure. But indoors, the lux is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:53

way too low, as I mentioned, maybe 500 maximum.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:57

Most places it's going to be much dimmer than

Sarah Kleiner: 00:22:59

that. So you've got the element of Lux being too

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:02

dim, but then you have the Kelvin being way too

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:05

high. So Kelvin is a, is another measurement of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:08

light. And Kelvin in our indoor modern lighting

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:13

bulbs are like 5700, 6000. Your, your iPhone

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:16

screen or your phone screen is usually 5700 or

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:19

6000. So that is enough blue light, enough

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:22

brightness, again, not brightness, but enough

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:24

blue light really. And intensity. Kelvin is like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:27

intensity of that light. Intensity also signals

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:30

the brain and says, hey, it's the middle of the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:32

day. It's June. It's in the middle of the day.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:35

Even though it might be December at like 7am It's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:41

a signal to that clock in the brain that is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:43

activated by blue light. Says, you got to hurry

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:46

up and make more cortisol because we've, we've

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:48

slept in and now you've got to hurry up and make

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:52

more. So we get a natural rise of cortisol, we

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:56

get metabolic support, mitochondrial support from

Sarah Kleiner: 00:23:59

sunrise, we get a metabolic confusion, or as

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:03

ChatGPT would call it, metabolic chaos. Everyone

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:09

sees in Chat GPT these days, everyone's got

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:12

metabolic chaos. I know you use chat GPT for your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:16

post. Hormone chaos. Anywho, your phone is giving

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:24

you metabolic chaos. Hormone chaos. Sunlight is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:29

this beautiful symphony of light that, that gives

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:31

your body the right signals. And so that's the,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:35

that's the first window of light that you really

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:37

want to get out there for. Then we have UV light,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:41

which, as I mentioned, has really been demonized.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:44

But UV light, especially in the eyes and then on

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:46

the skin, there's some benefits as well. But it's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:48

eye and skin. I've got the papers on that in my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:51

leptin master plan course. It tells the brain to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:55

make something called Alpha msh, which is kind of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:24:59

like fat burning, right? So it's it boosts your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:01

metabolism in, in a very non scientific

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:04

explanation. Explanation. It's boosting your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:07

metabolism, boosting fat burning and it regulates

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:10

your appetite. So I have a lot of people that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:13

come to me that they have no appetite in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:16

morning. They're just like, oh guess what? That's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:19

probably too much cortisol from what did I just

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:21

mention before? The phone screen and the lights

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:24

part of it, stress, the coffee, just getting this

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:28

huge spike and of course you're not hungry. And

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:31

so the way I have people to start regulating

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:34

their appetite is sunrise light because that's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:36

going to start those metabolic clocks spinning

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:38

appropriately. But then you've got UV light where

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:42

you get production of serotonin, dopamine, alpha

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:46

msh and that can help to regulate the appetite.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:50

So if you're someone who's never been hungry in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:52

the morning, I'm like, don't force feed yourself.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:55

Maybe have like a little something, little

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:57

protein, get it started. But don't make yourself

Sarah Kleiner: 00:25:59

sick. But go outside during that UVA window when

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:03

UVA first begins to come online. That's right

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:06

after sunrise, depending on where you are. That's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:09

why I put that in my app, my circadian app, so

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:11

you can understand, oh, it's 45 minutes after

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:14

sunrise. It's in the app. It'll tell you try to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:17

get out there at the beginning of that and if you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:19

can spend 20 minutes out there, that can do

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:21

wonders for your appetite and your metabolism.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:24

Plus you get the lux, you get that appropriate

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:27

amount of lux and brightness. So for metabolic

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:31

benefits that's really, and I'm, there's more

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:34

elements to it. Right? We could probably have a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:36

six hour long podcast about all of this, but this

Sarah Kleiner: 00:26:41

is a dumbed down yes, we.

Meredith Oke: 00:26:43

Just, we want the, we just want the essentials.

Meredith Oke: 00:26:47

Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I like to give

Meredith Oke: 00:26:51

enough information for people to, to be able to

Meredith Oke: 00:26:54

decide to take action. Right. And then if you, if

Meredith Oke: 00:26:57

it's important to you to understand every little

Meredith Oke: 00:27:00

minutia of the science there, by all means go

Meredith Oke: 00:27:04

study it. But I think for most people it's like

Meredith Oke: 00:27:08

especially it's like I need to know enough to,

Meredith Oke: 00:27:12

for this to make sense cognitively. Like my, my

Meredith Oke: 00:27:16

intellect needs enough information to be able to

Meredith Oke: 00:27:19

say, okay, that is a logical good choice. And

Meredith Oke: 00:27:22

we're also, when it comes to the sun, we also are

Meredith Oke: 00:27:25

having to counterbalance like 20 years worth of

Meredith Oke: 00:27:29

propaganda saying that the sun is going to kill

Meredith Oke: 00:27:31

us and we should never go, we should be covered

Meredith Oke: 00:27:34

up everywhere every time we go outside. So.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:41

We also get Nitric oxide, which is, you know,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:44

I've been talking a lot about perimenopause

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:46

because I'm in the thick of it myself. You know,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:48

I'm at that age. But I feel like this stuff helps

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:51

so, so much. And one thing that can happen to a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:55

woman as she goes towards menopause is nitric

Sarah Kleiner: 00:27:58

oxide levels go way down. Now this is also true

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:01

in people with cardiovascular issues. And one of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:05

the things that UV light does, and if you can get

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:08

that morning uva, like get that process started

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:10

in the morning, is increase your, your body's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:13

nitric oxide production. So that's going to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:15

improve certain circulation again, another

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:17

metabolic boost, beta endorphin. So a lot of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:21

people start to do this stuff and they're like, I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:23

crave it, I need it. That's how I, that's how I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:26

am now. But your body makes beta endorphins in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:30

the morning and it's such a great. And dopamine,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:33

it's so many wonderful things. Such a great way

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:38

to start your day rather than scrolling. And

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:40

coffee.

Meredith Oke: 00:28:43

Yeah. And just on the coffee, would your guidance

Meredith Oke: 00:28:49

be to push it later for those of us who still

Meredith Oke: 00:28:52

like to have our coffee?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:54

I do. I, I like people to push it a bit later.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:28:57

You know, I'll do good structured mineral water,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:02

some hydrogen water. When I first wake up, walk

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:05

around the backyard grounding with my dog. She

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:08

always, she's like the reason, okay, I gotta go

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:12

outside and walk around because my dog just has

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:15

to go out. So grounding water. Then I go inside

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:20

and eat something, then I'll have some coffee. I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:23

went a couple of years without coffee and yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:28

it improved my hrv, it improved my sleep,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:31

probably was supportive to thyroid and adrenals,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:35

help me probably get pregnant, stay pregnant and,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:38

you know. But then my son was born, life got

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:42

crazy and I just missed my coffee. So I have

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:45

coffee, but I always have sunlight, some

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:49

grounding, some hydration, some breakfast, then

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:53

I'll have some coffee. And then I cut myself off

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:55

by 9 o' clock. I just don't do it after 9am

Sarah Kleiner: 00:29:59

because it can be a circadian disruptor for sure.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:30:03

Right.

Meredith Oke: 00:30:05

Because it's giving that cortisol spike when

Meredith Oke: 00:30:08

you're perhaps not meant to be having it. Yeah,

Meredith Oke: 00:30:12

got it. Okay, then let's talk about sunrise for a

Meredith Oke: 00:30:16

little bit. So I know, I know for me there are

Meredith Oke: 00:30:20

certain times of years, certain times of the year

Meredith Oke: 00:30:23

where I am up at sunrise, but there are also

Meredith Oke: 00:30:26

certain times of the year where sunrise is so

Meredith Oke: 00:30:28

early that I am fast asleep at Sunrise. So I

Meredith Oke: 00:30:32

would say it's probably like an hour later that I

Meredith Oke: 00:30:34

wake up and go outside. Am I still getting

Meredith Oke: 00:30:37

benefits? And for, for people who, you know, for

Meredith Oke: 00:30:41

whatever scheduling reasons are not up at

Meredith Oke: 00:30:42

sunrise, is it just like go outside and get the

Meredith Oke: 00:30:46

morning light? Whatever time it is, is that still

Meredith Oke: 00:30:48

helping?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:30:49

I've learned about just coaching and teaching and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:30:53

understanding this whole thing is it doesn't have

Sarah Kleiner: 00:30:55

to to be perfect, it just has to be consistent.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:30:58

You know, just start to develop some consistency.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:02

And yeah, it's in the summer and I have people

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:05

that live way up in Canada and Sweden and places

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:08

where the sun doesn't even set in the summer,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:10

which can be a whole other conversation. I feel

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:13

like I need to do a video for my YouTube channel

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:16

because I keep getting so many people with these

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:19

questions and I have a whole module about it in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:21

my sunwise course and in my leptin. Like I have

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:23

modules behind my, in my courses that go into

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:27

this and give you tons of strategies and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:29

protocols. But what I've kind of come to the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:32

conclusion of after working with so many people

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:34

and so many people in my community is that number

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:36

one, it's consistency over perfection. I think in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:39

the summertime it's really just more important to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:42

have a consistent wake time and a consistent

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:44

sleep time. And we typically, unless someone's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:49

dealing with a chronic illness, they're really

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:52

trying to heal from something, we can get away

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:54

with a little bit less sleep in the summer. Then

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:57

we need more in the winter. Like summer is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:31:59

vitamin D season. We're supposed to be soaking it

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:02

up. We're supposed to have longer days, make a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:04

little bit more cortisol. Winter, we're supposed

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:07

to be sleeping more, really pumping out that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:09

melatonin, pumping in repair, autophagy, all that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:14

really supposed to be in repair mode in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:16

winter. That's a whole other conversation because

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:19

most people live like it's summer year round. But

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:22

I think that in the summertime, wake times, if

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:25

you can get a little bit of sunrise in there, I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:28

mean just before UV light hits, it's going to be

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:31

a little bit of a different signal than the uv.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:36

So yeah, it's just really going to depend on

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:40

where you live. I live in Georgia, so the latest

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:42

our sunrise really comes up. I think it's like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:44

6:30. That's doable. Yeah, but if it was 5:30,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:49

girl, I'd be sleeping.

Meredith Oke: 00:32:52

Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. It's 5:30

Meredith Oke: 00:32:55

and I'm like, I'm not.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:32:56

Gonna have a five.

Meredith Oke: 00:32:57

Yeah. 6:15 is my, is my earliest. And I've tried,

Meredith Oke: 00:33:00

I've tried forcing myself to get up because I'm

Meredith Oke: 00:33:03

like, I have to see the sunrise. That's the

Meredith Oke: 00:33:05

thing. And I'm really tired all day, even with

Meredith Oke: 00:33:09

the sunrise because I just wasn't ready to get

Meredith Oke: 00:33:11

up. So yeah, I'm like, okay, so in this, in

Meredith Oke: 00:33:16

those. When the sun rises at 5:15.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:19

I know Dr. Sarah, she's flying in here tomorrow.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:22

She's gonna be staying with me for like a month

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:26

tomorrow. She, she doesn't have children. She

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:30

does live in the uk and I know she gets up for

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:33

the sunrise there, which is like four in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:35

morning in the summer. But I can't do that.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:41

Wouldn't do that probably. Even if I lived in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:33:44

UK, I probably would still be like 6:30 gal.

Meredith Oke: 00:33:48

Yeah, no, that's okay. Good. I'm glad we had this

Meredith Oke: 00:33:52

chat and I wanted to have it because I, I know

Meredith Oke: 00:33:56

that when you're first learning something,

Meredith Oke: 00:33:58

everyone wants to like do it perfectly perfect

Meredith Oke: 00:34:00

and perfect. You know, we develop all these

Meredith Oke: 00:34:05

purity tests and everything. And it's like, you

Meredith Oke: 00:34:09

know, close enough is good enough. And

Meredith Oke: 00:34:12

consistency, consistency is the key. Absolutely.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:16

My, my group members are so good now. They, they

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:19

repeat it to me. They're like consistency over

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:22

perfection. And I think I say that in a lot of my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:25

courses. At the end of each lesson, I really want

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:28

to drill that into people because we can't be

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:31

perfect. We just literally cannot be perfect. We

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:34

can be consistent though, to the best of our

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:36

ability. And when our head hits the pillow at

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:39

night, we know we did our best. We can do that.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:42

But life's gonna happen sometimes. It really is.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:46

And so you just. Consistency is gonna go a long

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:49

way. And remember that for most of your life you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:54

didn't have access to this information. You

Sarah Kleiner: 00:34:56

weren't implementing it. And now here we are. So

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:00

let's just do our best.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:03

Yep. And we will. So, yeah, it's consistent sun,

Meredith Oke: 00:35:07

not perfect sun. So what do you hear from people?

Meredith Oke: 00:35:12

Like, what are some of the biggest sun myths that

Meredith Oke: 00:35:14

you'd like to, that you'd like to burst? And then

Meredith Oke: 00:35:16

I have some other stuff I want to ask you.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:18

More is better. Avoiding seed oils will give you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:24

the superpower ability to lay out in the sun for

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:26

six hours straight in a year UV of 11. No. Yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:34

don't do that.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:34

No.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:37

There. And I think a lot of people, myself

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:40

included, came into this information and, and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:43

what I was following people who said that. And I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:47

did photo age my skin. I did get some Wrinkles

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:54

from overdoing it. And now you can find me in a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:35:57

wide brimmed hat, a visor. I still don't wear

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:00

sunscreen because I'm never in a situation where

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:03

I can't control the amount of sun that I'm

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:05

getting. I can always go to the shade or put on

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:08

some clothing like cover up. But I think that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:13

there's so many researchers out there and there

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:18

are people that want the clicks and the views and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:22

the likes and so they put out this information

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:25

that's very dogmatic and again talks down to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:28

people and is just rude. Like I read some of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:31

these posts and I'm like, rude?

Meredith Oke: 00:36:33

Yeah.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:35

How does this have 3,000 likes? It's rude. I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:41

don't like it. I don't like to see people being

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:46

talked to that way. And then they're like, but I

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:47

can never. But I don't. And I'm like, it just

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:51

doesn't work that way, guys. There can be a case

Sarah Kleiner: 00:36:55

where someone may need to wear a non nano zinc

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:00

oxide sunscreen. There may be a case, and this is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:03

blasphemy, where someone may need to wear a pair

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:08

of sunglasses that are something like Raw Optics,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:11

Blue Sync or I know Bon Charge has some that are.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:14

That they won't shut down your circadian rhythm.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:16

But our eyes are not meant to get glare off of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:21

sidewalks, off of water, off of really white sand

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:25

like you see on the Gulf. I mean like that hurts.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:30

It damages the retina. It puts your body and your

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:33

nervous system into a state of fight flight. It's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:36

an unnatural reflection of the sun and it can

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:38

hurt your eyes. So there. That's one of the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:44

biggest pet peeves of mine lately is that people.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:49

If you live in Canada and you've decided to go to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:52

Florida and it's March, you need to be really

Sarah Kleiner: 00:37:57

careful. Like you don't. You can really burn

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:00

yourself if you think that you're not avoiding,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:03

you're avoiding seed oils and you're going out in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:06

the morning for sunrise and for uva and you can

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:09

spend all day on the beach. Like you know, you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:15

may not want to do that. Not to say that those

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:17

things don't help. They absolutely do help there.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:20

I just put out an article in my newsletter

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:23

recently about skin protective foods. You've got

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:26

astaxanthin. There are phytochemicals and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:30

compounds in things like lycopene that do protect

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:34

the skin from strong UV and that they actually

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:38

have some like built in sunscreen effects. There

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:41

is a lot of scientific data that shows things

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:43

like seed oils can actually mutate and cause skin

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:47

cancers. And I put those papers in that article

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:50

as well. But it doesn't make us immune. Like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:54

there's a certain point that everyone's body will

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:56

come to depending on your Fitzpatrick skin type,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:38:59

depending on if you've built up resilience and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:02

solar tolerance and callous. So yeah, that's my

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:08

long winded answer.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:09

Yes. Yes. And it's. It goes back to like that

Meredith Oke: 00:39:13

perfectionism thing and the ability to have like

Meredith Oke: 00:39:15

a balanced mind and a mature cognitive capacity

Meredith Oke: 00:39:20

where it's like, oh, the sun is really good for

Meredith Oke: 00:39:22

me, but that doesn't mean eight hours outside in

Meredith Oke: 00:39:27

a UV 11 when I'm fair skinned and I'm not used to

Meredith Oke: 00:39:31

it is good for me. Like it's not all one thing.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:35

There, there is balance. Like fat is good for me,

Meredith Oke: 00:39:40

but that doesn't mean I'm going to eat an all fat

Meredith Oke: 00:39:42

diet or I'm going to. Right. Like we.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:45

Or nothing but sugar. That's the new thing. Yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:49

the sugar diet. That's got everyone.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:51

What?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:52

Why are you guys so mad about this right now?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:39:54

People are so mad about the sugar diet.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:57

What's the sugar diet? I only follow like you and

Meredith Oke: 00:40:01

my quantum people. So when weird things happen,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:03

I'm like, what? What's happening? What's this

Meredith Oke: 00:40:06

craze?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:08

It's a thing. It's a thing people are doing. Mark

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:10

Bell is doing it and just talking about how

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:13

shredded he's getting from it. It's so dumb.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:17

I swear to God. You put a picture of yourself

Meredith Oke: 00:40:19

looking fit on the, on the Internet and then say

Meredith Oke: 00:40:22

I got looking like this by doing this and it's

Meredith Oke: 00:40:26

like somehow proof that that's the best thing to

Meredith Oke: 00:40:29

do for everybody. What sugar diet? So like, like,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:35

like fruit or like.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:37

Like sugar, like fruit and candy is what people

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:42

are. Maple syrup, honey.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:45

Sorry. What's the like rationale for like what

Meredith Oke: 00:40:49

are they?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:51

It's hitting the other side of the Randall cycle

Sarah Kleiner: 00:40:54

and there is a hormone, I think it's called FG1.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:00

I don't know. I talked with Dr. Sarah about this

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:02

whole thing on my YouTube channel and all the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:04

carnivores came out of the woodwork and were like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:06

pissed off. Which we weren't even like saying

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:09

people should do it. We were just discussing it

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:10

and like what it was and how it worked. Everyone

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:13

got so mad.

Meredith Oke: 00:41:15

You can't talk about sugar. Yeah, we get a little

Meredith Oke: 00:41:24

attached to these concepts, don't we? And then

Meredith Oke: 00:41:27

they become like our, our safety, our safety

Meredith Oke: 00:41:32

blanket our personality. And so Whenever any

Meredith Oke: 00:41:35

information, and especially if it comes through

Meredith Oke: 00:41:37

someone who we think is on our side and it's like

Meredith Oke: 00:41:42

interfering with what we believe, it's the way

Meredith Oke: 00:41:44

it's supposed to be, we get really triggered.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:49

Yeah, I just don't, I'm not on anyone's like,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:52

quote unquote side. I think I piss people off

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:55

because even the sun stuff, I'm like, yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:41:58

sometimes you might need to protect your eyes on

Sarah Kleiner: 00:42:01

the water or on snow sometimes.

Meredith Oke: 00:42:06

Which is, which is a true and reasonable thing to

Meredith Oke: 00:42:09

say. And it's only because we can't. A lot of us

Meredith Oke: 00:42:12

came to this information through such a, you

Meredith Oke: 00:42:16

know, one sided, dogmatic, puritanical, stupid

Meredith Oke: 00:42:21

really approach that. Like, of course you need to

Meredith Oke: 00:42:26

wear goggles when you're skiing. Of course you

Meredith Oke: 00:42:29

need to protect your eyes if you're out on a boat

Meredith Oke: 00:42:32

or anywhere with a glare. And our family learned

Meredith Oke: 00:42:35

that, like, we were like, oh, this, we want to

Meredith Oke: 00:42:37

get as much sun as possible. And we went on a ski

Meredith Oke: 00:42:39

trip and we had gone on like a beach trip and

Meredith Oke: 00:42:43

we'd been, you know, we didn't use sunscreen. We

Meredith Oke: 00:42:45

did all the other things instead and went in the

Meredith Oke: 00:42:47

shade when we got pink and all this stuff and it

Meredith Oke: 00:42:49

was great. So then we went on a ski trip and

Meredith Oke: 00:42:51

we're like, ah, all the sun all the time and we

Meredith Oke: 00:42:54

didn't put on sunblock. And one day we were, we

Meredith Oke: 00:42:59

were in the like the Alps, which is really high

Meredith Oke: 00:43:02

altitude. It was, it was stupid. It was stupid.

Meredith Oke: 00:43:05

And after one day we were like, we're idiots. We

Meredith Oke: 00:43:08

bought some zinc. But, you know, this is how we

Meredith Oke: 00:43:14

learn.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:16

I mean, I did, I had to learn for myself.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:19

Thankfully, there's no irreparable damage that's

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:22

been done. I don't, I don't know, I feel like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:25

it's hard to do irreparable, irreparable damage.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:29

I don't know why I can't talk today. Because

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:32

people freak out about this stuff and think that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:34

they have with their health. And I, I always say,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:37

you're only broken if you say you are you.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:39

There's no point of return if you say there's no

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:42

point of return. So yeah, we screw up, we make

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:45

mistakes, but we have highly adaptable bodies if

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:49

we can course correct. So, you know, sunburn.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:53

Okay.

Meredith Oke: 00:43:54

Oops.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:43:56

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:43:58

Yeah. And as you said, you know, the, the UV

Meredith Oke: 00:44:02

light will cause photo damage. And so I've become

Meredith Oke: 00:44:06

as well, a hat wearer. So people who've met me in

Meredith Oke: 00:44:09

the last five years are like, oh, you're really

Meredith Oke: 00:44:12

love wearing hats. Like, oh, I do now. This is

Meredith Oke: 00:44:17

just about. Yeah. Developing a way of living

Meredith Oke: 00:44:20

that's not insane, that doesn't feel super hard.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:24

Like, maybe changing habits in the beginning does

Meredith Oke: 00:44:26

require a lot of support. Support. That's why I

Meredith Oke: 00:44:28

think it's good that you have communities, that

Meredith Oke: 00:44:30

there are health coaches. Right. Like, we do need

Meredith Oke: 00:44:32

that support to change things, to do new things,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:35

Things that maybe the people in our normal lives

Meredith Oke: 00:44:38

are like, why would you do that? But once it

Meredith Oke: 00:44:42

becomes a habit, you don't have to think about it

Meredith Oke: 00:44:43

anymore, Right?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:44:44

Correct.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:45

And you don't have to hold yourself to some kind

Meredith Oke: 00:44:48

of false standard that you've concocted from

Meredith Oke: 00:44:55

various Instagram posts of people telling you

Meredith Oke: 00:44:59

there's only one way to do things.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:45:03

Exactly.

Meredith Oke: 00:45:07

So before we wrap up, I want to talk about the

Meredith Oke: 00:45:11

app, because for anyone listening who does want

Meredith Oke: 00:45:14

to embrace the sun, I just. I want to say Sarah

Meredith Oke: 00:45:20

and I have both embraced this way of life. And I

Meredith Oke: 00:45:23

don't know, I think we look really good. I don't

Meredith Oke: 00:45:25

feel wrinkled. You look way younger than you just

Meredith Oke: 00:45:29

said you were. So it's fun. I have more energy. I

Meredith Oke: 00:45:34

feel so much better. I no longer suffer from

Meredith Oke: 00:45:36

chronic fatigue. And it's not like everything's

Meredith Oke: 00:45:39

perfect all of the time, but it's like, if you've

Meredith Oke: 00:45:43

ever changed your eating habits and you're like,

Meredith Oke: 00:45:45

oh, wow, how did I ever eat that way before? I

Meredith Oke: 00:45:47

feel so much better. It's. It's like that with.

Meredith Oke: 00:45:49

But with a son.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:45:51

Exactly.

Meredith Oke: 00:45:52

And a very helpful way to, like, get inside of

Meredith Oke: 00:45:56

this and do it sensibly and effectively is to use

Meredith Oke: 00:46:00

the Circadian app that Sarah had made. She hired

Meredith Oke: 00:46:03

a designer and, like, she's like, here's all the

Meredith Oke: 00:46:06

things that are important to track, like, make an

Meredith Oke: 00:46:08

app. Tell us. Tell us about it, because I think

Meredith Oke: 00:46:11

it's really good.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:12

Yeah. It's called my Circadian app. It's all one

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:15

word. And I had a lot of clients and people with

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:19

brain fog, and they just. I was giving them

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:21

several different apps to help them to figure out

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:24

these different things. And so the app will

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:28

essentially let you know what time, Daybreak,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:32

sunrise, uva, which we talked about those earlier

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:36

in the episode, why they're important. Uvb.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:39

That's when we actually make vitamin D, because

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:41

people, most people have no idea that you only

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:44

can synthesize D at certain parts of the day in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:47

certain parts of the year. So the app is going to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:49

let you know when that happens for you. And it

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:51

has a timer in there, so you can Put in your skin

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:54

type and how much clothing you're wearing, and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:57

the app will say you need to, you know, it'll

Sarah Kleiner: 00:46:59

kind of gauge the time based on UV index, skin

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:04

type, clothing, how safe it is for you to be out

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:06

there. Now, obviously, you never want to override

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:09

your own tuition because an app says you have,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:11

like, two more minutes. If you feel, like, really

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:13

warm and you're getting that erythema dose in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:16

skin, you're feeling kind of warm, then go, you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:19

know, get out of it. But I find it to be pretty

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:21

spot on for people that are just building a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:24

relationship with the sun. So that timer, the D

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:27

timer, will help you to figure out how long is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:30

appropriate for you to be out in that stronger

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:32

light. Also lets you know when sunset happens,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:36

when nightfall happens. I use that as my reminder

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:39

to get the blue blockers out, start mitigating

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:41

the artificial light at night, because we didn't

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:43

really talk about that, but that's another huge

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:45

metabolic destroyer, really. And there's tons of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:50

literature on that. I know Meredith has tons of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:51

episodes on that, but the app will let you know

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:54

when that's happening. And then with the full

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:56

version, you can forecast up to five days in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:47:59

advance. So you can know what time sunrise is

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:01

tomorrow, the next day, the next day, uva. Right.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:03

Because these times change, as we mentioned, with

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:06

the early sunrises in the summer, it's not like

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:09

that in the winter, It's a bit later in the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:10

winter. So these times just change a little bit

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:14

every single day depending on where you live. The

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:16

further north you live, the more extreme the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:19

change is from day to day. Like me, it's a little

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:22

more moderate, but it really gives you all in one

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:25

what you need to know. It's got a lux meter, so

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:28

you can understand. Am I getting enough Lux in

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:31

the morning, even if it's cloudy and rainy? Oh,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:34

I'm going to measure my Lux, and that's going to

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:36

give me that little extra motivation to get out

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:39

there and get that light. Even though it's not

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:42

very pretty, it's not very fun. And then you can

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:45

measure Lux in your bedroom at night, too,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:48

because there's also studies. And the app has

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:50

tons of studies in there, so it backs up all this

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:52

information that you want to have Your lux below

Sarah Kleiner: 00:48:56

10 the three hours leading up to bed, along with

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:00

the blue blockers. And so you can measure from

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:04

where you're sitting. Like, is it dim enough

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:07

here? Because I've seen people sit in front of

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:09

these really bright red light therapy panels that

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:11

can trigger the cortisol response, if that goes

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:14

in. So it's just got all that. It's got a moon

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:18

tracker to tell you phases of the moon. It's got

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:21

a compass to tell you north, south, east, and

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:23

west. So lots of cool stuff in there. And we even

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:27

just got a red screen mode, so you can. Oh, cool.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:32

Yeah, you can go in Settings and it'll adapt the

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:34

app for red screen mode so that you can see, you

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:39

know, because red screen will wipe out certain

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:41

apps. You're like, what's happening? So it has a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:44

red screen mode now, which is pretty cool.

Meredith Oke: 00:49:47

Oh, that's so good.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:49:48

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:49:49

Yeah. So I definitely recommend downloading this

Meredith Oke: 00:49:52

app, my Circadian app, because it's like one of

Meredith Oke: 00:49:55

those things, you're like, okay, like, I'll do

Meredith Oke: 00:49:57

the sunlight thing. And then as you start doing

Meredith Oke: 00:49:59

it, you're like, oh, wait, what about this? Oh,

Meredith Oke: 00:50:01

wait, what about that? And so this app just

Meredith Oke: 00:50:03

answers all the questions and you know that, you

Meredith Oke: 00:50:07

know, you're keeping yourself safe and not

Meredith Oke: 00:50:08

staying out too long. And then, as you said,

Meredith Oke: 00:50:10

Sarah, eventually you'll know intuitively. But

Meredith Oke: 00:50:12

it's a really great way to get started and stay

Meredith Oke: 00:50:15

on track. I use it all the time. I didn't know

Meredith Oke: 00:50:17

about the bed, like, using it in my bedroom to

Meredith Oke: 00:50:20

make sure it's dark enough. That's a good pro tip.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:23

Your sleeping environment, love it less and a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:26

one. But that evening environment, 10 and below,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:30

three hours getting up to bed. So, yeah, Sarah

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:33

and I, when we watch tv, I'll put a pair of blue

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:36

blockers over the lens and, like, measure, like.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:38

Okay, we're good. Cover up the skin, watch a

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:43

little tv.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:45

Okay, good. I was gonna ask of, like, what if

Meredith Oke: 00:50:47

you're wearing blue blockers but watching Netflix.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:52

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:53

So we're still okay?

Sarah Kleiner: 00:50:55

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:55

And good. All right, well, thanks for jumping on

Meredith Oke: 00:51:01

and sharing all of this. It's going to be so

Meredith Oke: 00:51:04

helpful. And this is such a good episode to share

Meredith Oke: 00:51:07

with your friends who are like, what are you

Meredith Oke: 00:51:11

doing? Why are you wearing those glasses? What's.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:13

What's going on? Where's your SPF 50? You can

Meredith Oke: 00:51:16

just send them this episode. That's what this is

Meredith Oke: 00:51:18

for. And you can follow Sarah, Sarah Kleiner

Meredith Oke: 00:51:22

Wellness on Instagram. She provides tons of super

Meredith Oke: 00:51:27

great information on there. You have a newsletter

Meredith Oke: 00:51:30

and of course, the Circadian app.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:51:33

Amazing. Thank you for having me. Okay. Yeah,

Sarah Kleiner: 00:51:37

thank you.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:38

We'll see you soon.

Sarah Kleiner: 00:51:40

Alrighty.