128: Dr Max Gulhane (Replay) - Why Light Is Key To Generative Health

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Dr. Max Gulhane: The key part about why people are eating so much,

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you know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of

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carbohydrates and sugar addictions and, and

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breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all

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are undoubtedly playing a role in food addiction.

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But the absence of that regulated circadian

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rhythm and the cues that are being sent by

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artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella

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kind of causes of, of things like carbohydrate

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addiction, leptin resistance and insulin

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resistance. So we can kind of attack the problem

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later down the causal tree.

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Welcome to the QVC podcast where we explore new

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paradigms in health and science that have a

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meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm

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your host Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.

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I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue

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and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.

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I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away

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in an ivory tower and that wisdom can be found in

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many places and understood by all of us. To keep

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in touch with this podcast, the QVC free

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community, our episode guide and all the show

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notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's

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get together to create the future we all want to

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live in. Dr. Max Gulhan is a family physician

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based in New South Wales, Australia and is the

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host of the wonderful Regenerative Health

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podcast. Early in his career, Dr. Gulhane

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observed the failure of the pharmaceutical based

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medical model to adequately address chronic

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illness and prevent disease. And he began a

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journey starting with diet and leading to light

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to understand the best way to manage the common

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complaints and illnesses he was seeing in his

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practice. In this episode, Dr. Gulhane explains

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why light and circadian rhythms are so important,

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why we need a nature based light dark cycle as

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the foundation of our health, and why most light

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bulbs are the equivalent of junk food. We cover a

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lot of other ground in this conversation as well.

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Those are the key points. Enjoy. Welcome Dr. Max

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Gulhane. It is an absolute pleasure to be doing

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this podcast with you. For anyone who doesn't

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know, Dr. Gulhane is the host of his own podcast

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called the Regenerative Health Podcast. It's

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excellent. I highly recommend anyone. If you like

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this podcast, you will like his. So if you

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haven't checked it out, go ahead and do that.

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There's some great episodes there. So Dr.

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Gulhane, tell us a little bit about your

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background, what you, you know, what you did

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traditionally and then how you sort of made the

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pivot into this weird, weird and wonderful world

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of quantum and circadian biology.

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Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, thank you so much, Meredith, for having me

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on and really respect what you're doing with the

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quantum biology collective here. So I'll give you

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an idea about what I, yeah, how I got into this.

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I've approached quantum health Originally my

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health journey was through the dietary, dietary

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stuff. The short story is that I essentially had

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quite bad acne that I developed in my early,

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early twenties, a bit later than everyone

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normally gets skin problems. And what I found

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worked really effectively for those symptoms was

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a low carbohydrate and then a carnivore type

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diet. And that kind of journey was precipitated

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or hurried along by my encounter with the

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healthcare system, with dermatologists and

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general practitioners who were very readily and

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very able to prescribe medications, but didn't

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discuss lifestyle in any real meaningful way that

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would effectively move the needle. So I guess

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like a lot of the listeners that are tuning in or

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listen to your podcast, it was a situation of the

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patient working out how to treat themselves most

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effectively and not getting that information

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given to them, which I think is, I guess that's

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one of the key problems that I'm hoping to try

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and help with both with my podcast and events and

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things like this is because it shouldn't be up to

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the layperson to kind of wade through, you know,

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all the dietary light circadian stuff themselves.

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I feel like that that's the goal of the medical

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profession is to, to actually be able to heal

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people. And, and we were talking off air a little

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bit about, about your health journey and it's

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onerous. And luckily, you know, I had a medical

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background. I was going through a science degree,

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I was going through medical school. So I guess I

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had the scientific and intellectual training to

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kind of make, make sense of things a bit quicker,

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which was, which was helpful. But the problem

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kind of kind of still exists, exists as well

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today is that it's not as easy as it should be

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for people to access and be supported with, you

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know, with best, best practice kind of lifestyle

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advice. So I, yeah, along this period I went

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through a couple of heavy medications for acne.

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Some of you, your listeners might know of

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roacutane, which is a isotretino and it's quite a

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heavy medication. And after that I kind of just

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basically stopped it because I was having some

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mood side effects. And around the same time I was

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experimenting things like plant based diets. And

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I guess following what was supposed to be the

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mainstream's endorsed approach to treating any

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health condition is go plant based, had a very,

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very adverse reaction to that after about eight,

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nine months. And then, yeah, found low carb

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through. There's a, I guess it's quite similar to

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what you're doing. It's called low carb down

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Under. It's accumulation of videos that, by

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doctors that help people inform on these kind of

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topics. So you're really a parallel of that

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resource, but from a quantum point of view. And

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then got onto Carnivore, which I found was

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really, really, really helpful. I guess how I got

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into the light stuff is that amongst the whole

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intellectual, I guess you could call it a

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battleground on Twitter, there's different

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factions and there's different warring parties

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and Dr. Jack Cruz is an outsized figure in, in

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this kind of, in, in this arena. So I'm not sure

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exactly how I found him, but someone must have

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linked, linked him a video. And I basically went

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down my own kind of rabbit hole because even

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though I was, I'd experienced such benefits on

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Carnivore, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily happy

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to, to say, okay, that's all there is. And I get

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a feeling that some players in the health space

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are content to hit a intellectual boundary of a

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dietary paradigm and not progress any further.

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But I don't like to do that. I always, I'm asking

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why, why, why, why, why? And going deeper and

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deeper and especially with, with someone like

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Cruz and other people in the space, you know,

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hanging such juicy intellectual carrots and

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making claims that I need to investigate for

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myself. So, yeah, some. Somewhere along the line

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I found him and went down a whole bunch of his

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interviews and the whole. For about, you know,

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four or five years I'd been wearing blue light

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blocking glasses because I kind of had an

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intuition that it was something I should do and I

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felt better when I did it. But it wasn't until

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the past, probably year or year and a half that I

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really launched deeper into exactly why they're

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so effective and why we should be doing it. And

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then this has kind of culminated and I obviously,

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I started my podcast in December and then I met,

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met, met someone at a conference and they

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introduced me online to Dr. Cruz and I've kind

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of, I've recorded my, my cruise series. There's

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three podcasts in that so far. And then

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subsequently interviewed Carrie Bennett and, and,

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and kind of engaging and really now delving into

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the quantum side of things. But, but that's,

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that's where I'm at at the moment. And, and I'm

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a. So I did medical school, I worked in emergency

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medicine for a while and now I'm seeing my own

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patients in the context of family medicine and

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I've really got the opportunity to discuss about

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circadian health. And I don't have one on me, but

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I've actually made up a little flyer which I give

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out to people and I think it's about, just got

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six points on it. And I just explain about the

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8020 of circadian health. Seeing the morning

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sunrise, getting out throughout the day to get

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some sun on the skin, creating a low light

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environment, wearing blue light blockers and

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ideally turning off WI fi during, during the

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night. So that kind of journey and the journey of

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learning about quantum biology is I guess gotten

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me to the point where I'm comfortable talking

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about it as an adjunct lifestyle advice to my

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patients. And I guess what my job is or the way I

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sit, one way I see my job is to kind of listen to

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my patients, listen to their story, listen to

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what is going on and I guess pick from a toolbox

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of lifestyle interventions which one is going to

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be the most effective to help their particular

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problem based on what they can do with their

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knowledge, what they're prepared to change. And I

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think the quantum stuff is invaluable as part of

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that.

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Yes. And I think it's really interesting what you

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were saying about the warring factions on Twitter

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or wherever there are and that because people get

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so locked into like a, into the food dogma and

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you know, my background is in, is in coaching,

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executive coaching and helping people sort of

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change, change their behaviors. So I have spent a

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lot of time reading and thinking about that and I

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notice and in my experience, when something

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helps, right. So if you do switch to a certain

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type of diet and it does solve some of your

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problems, we tend to get extremely attached to

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that and to whoever introduced us to and to the

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very specific criteria of that. And then we

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became, we become very dogmatic about whatever it

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is, the food or the lifestyle intervention. And

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for me I wasn't able to do that. A, I don't like,

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I'm not a super big food person. So I found doing

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all these food, different types of food

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interventions challenging and so I didn't want to

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get attached to them. And B, it wasn't working

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right. Like I the idea that like, oh, maybe I'm

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just not doing the food hard enough, that's why

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I'm not getting better. You know, the results

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just weren't there. So what I like, what I love

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about quantum biology is like there's really no

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dogma like you can do, you can eat whatever you

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want. You just are understanding what is

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happening from a certain perspective. Right.

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Aside from some of the protocols that you just

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mentioned in terms of optimizing light

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environments, like, there's really no dogma in

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this field. It's a totally wide open.

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Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah. And I, I interviewed recovering vegan

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Giselle Besson in one of my early episodes and

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she described exactly what you talk about,

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Meredith, which was in within the vegan ideology

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there was if people were falling sick or they're

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not getting better, there was this idea that

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you're not veganing hard enough. You know, you're

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not doing it enough. And, and which is obviously,

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you know, we've, we've strayed into the territory

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of, of relig by the time, by the time you're not

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veganing hard enough. And I think to a certain

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degree that can be also the case in the Carnivore

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point of view is that perhaps if you're having

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issues, you're not doing it enough or hard

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enough. What I would think or what I think now is

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that there are certain problems that are light

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problems and food can't solve a light problem.

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And, and certain patients who are basically being

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held together so they're feeling better and their

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symptoms are improved on Carnivore. But you can

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see that if you remove that piece of string and

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that band aid, things would fall apart. So to me

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that's pointing to a deeper issue and we're not

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yet getting at the root cause. It's helping, but

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we're not yet solving that kind of root cause

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issue. But for that reason, that's why I still

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support Carnivore in that for someone living at a

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lower latitude, particularly here in Albury

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during the winter, it's very difficult to get a

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meaningful amount of sunlight throughout the day.

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If it's very overcast, yes, we can get outside

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and still get some solar exposure, but it still

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has a place in, again, maintaining people if for

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whatever other reason they can't change things

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like their latitude or the place that they live.

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Yes, absolutely. And then the diet and the light

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work together and everyone's situation is

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slightly different. But there are some

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fundamental pieces and I find too, again from my

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coaching perspective, people also tend to be very

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all or nothing, like, oh, well, it's either food

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or light or it's either this or that or I should

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throw out everything I've been doing and just do,

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just do light stuff. And I think we focus very

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heavily on light because it, it is a missing

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piece that has not been focused on. But once you

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Bring that in. Like all. It's a holistic

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perspective, right? Like every. Everything

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matters.

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Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah, I, I do. And what you said earlier, I

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think there is a tendency within even health is

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for people to basically get behind, as you said,

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what worked for them and find ways of

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scientifically justifying their own personal

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biases. So whatever works for them, they're going

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to keep kind of cheerleading. So it is, it is

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difficult to try and maintain impartiality in the

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face of, of your own personal lived experience,

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however effective that has been. But I agree that

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there is, there isn't a one size fits all.

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Everyone's going to have a different percentage

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response to each different intervention, whether

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that's someone who really can't tolerate any

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light after sunset. And some people really find

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benefit from, you know, cutting out vegetables.

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So everyone's going to respond differently. And

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for that reason, like you said, I emphasize food.

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Diet, like diet. I say that to my patients. You

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know, optimal health lies somewhere in the middle

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of these. And yeah, you want to be doing most of

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them and most that you're able to. If you, if, if

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your health is a problem and you need to get back

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to that thriving point of view, that state of

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being.

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Yes. And I love that food diet, light diet,

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because I think one of the other things is that,

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you know, and we, we talk about this a lot in the

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certification, right? Like if all the research

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on, on margarine came out, right, and we found

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out that actually margarine is really bad for

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you. Everyone's like, okay, I'm going to take

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margarine out of the healthy food category and

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move it over to the toxic food category. Got it.

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But when you say to somebody like, your light

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bulbs are toxic, they're like, what are you

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talking about? Right? Like, we don't even have a

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framework for good light, bad light. We don't

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even think about it in those terms. So I love

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that that you're framing it that way for your

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patients and for someone who's new, how, how

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would you explain what healthy light is versus

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what toxic light is or unhealthy light?

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Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, I was having this exact conversation with

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the last patient of the day yesterday, and I

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pointed up to the fluorescent bulb in my clinic

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room that I try and keep off most of the day, but

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when it's overcast and dark in Aubry, I have to

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turn it on. I'll have my blue blockers on. But I

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said to him, I said, look, that, that is the meth

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of light. Like, that's, that's the

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methamphetamine of light it that it's an isolated

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blue wavelength, it's not balanced by red. It has

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no non visible, you know, infrared or any other

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type of non visible wavelength. It is, you know,

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the color temperature of the midday. And when you

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exposed to it at the wrong time or in general,

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but particularly at the wrong time later in the

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day, after dark, you are stimulating yourself

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massively by that light signal. And that's going

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to prevent your body from making the melatonin

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hormone. It's going to promote your body's

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cortisol level, all this kind of thing. So I try

Meredith Oke: 00:17:48

and explain it that just like there's junk food,

Meredith Oke: 00:17:52

there's also junk light. And it's, it's a, it's a

Meredith Oke: 00:17:57

highly refined form of light. And this is a, the

Meredith Oke: 00:17:59

way that I explain food, food products to people

Meredith Oke: 00:18:03

is if you're eating something that's processed,

Meredith Oke: 00:18:06

anything that's processed is, is by humans is

Meredith Oke: 00:18:08

going to be bad for you. Whether it's processed

Meredith Oke: 00:18:10

wheat, you know, processed seed oils, processed

Meredith Oke: 00:18:15

coca leaf, you know, anything that humans have

Meredith Oke: 00:18:17

refined and purified is, is suboptimal. And that,

Meredith Oke: 00:18:22

that analogy I think maps beautifully onto light

Meredith Oke: 00:18:26

as well. So whenever you've got that blue light

Meredith Oke: 00:18:30

that's been presented without the other

Meredith Oke: 00:18:34

wavelengths, you've got a problem. And it also

Meredith Oke: 00:18:36

helps to bring up the light basically spectra. I

Meredith Oke: 00:18:40

often do that for my patients and I show them,

Meredith Oke: 00:18:43

look at what natural daylight look like, look how

Meredith Oke: 00:18:46

balanced it is across all the different visible

Meredith Oke: 00:18:48

colors and then look at led, look at or all these

Meredith Oke: 00:18:52

different sources. And that's a great way of

Meredith Oke: 00:18:55

communicating to patients. Well, hang on, this is

Meredith Oke: 00:18:57

not natural. And I think we don't have to go too

Meredith Oke: 00:19:01

complex or too deep into it to just, that's a

Meredith Oke: 00:19:03

visual depiction of something that's obviously

Meredith Oke: 00:19:06

not natural. So yeah, that's kind of my general

Meredith Oke: 00:19:10

approach. For someone who's got no idea or.

Meredith Oke: 00:19:12

No background in it, that makes a lot of sense. I

Meredith Oke: 00:19:17

like that a lot. So the light that comes out of

Meredith Oke: 00:19:19

the sun is different at different types of times

Meredith Oke: 00:19:22

of day, but it tends to have a full spectrum.

Meredith Oke: 00:19:26

Whereas the light that comes out of a light bulb

Meredith Oke: 00:19:29

is like processed light in the way that refined

Meredith Oke: 00:19:35

sugar is processed or refined flour is processed

Meredith Oke: 00:19:38

and it's harsh and narrow. So we don't have all

Meredith Oke: 00:19:41

of those other frequencies balancing anything out.

Meredith Oke: 00:19:44

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, and like to your point earlier, people just

Meredith Oke: 00:19:48

don't have an understanding or framework of, of

Meredith Oke: 00:19:50

this. You know, people have an inclination that

Meredith Oke: 00:19:53

eating refined sugar is bad. You know, a Lot of

Meredith Oke: 00:19:56

people have an inclination that eating vegetable

Meredith Oke: 00:19:59

oils is, is not intuitively healthy for them. But

Meredith Oke: 00:20:02

you know, every new house that's being, that gets

Meredith Oke: 00:20:05

built in Australia and in these, in estates, they

Meredith Oke: 00:20:08

have led down lights and they're the harshest,

Meredith Oke: 00:20:13

whitest, harshest, widest light you can, you can

Meredith Oke: 00:20:17

find. And you know, there's the street lights in

Meredith Oke: 00:20:19

these places are blaring. So people are getting

Meredith Oke: 00:20:23

light into their bedrooms. They're not having a

Meredith Oke: 00:20:26

fully dark, dark bedroom. And then the WI fi

Meredith Oke: 00:20:30

router, the Internet ethernet port is in the

Meredith Oke: 00:20:34

walking closet or opposite the main bedroom. So

Meredith Oke: 00:20:38

where people are default plugging their WI fi

Meredith Oke: 00:20:40

routers in is going to be next to very close to

Meredith Oke: 00:20:44

where they sleep. So the whole, not only do

Meredith Oke: 00:20:46

people not have a framework for understanding how

Meredith Oke: 00:20:50

harmful this light environment, this artificial

Meredith Oke: 00:20:52

light environment is, the whole environment, the

Meredith Oke: 00:20:55

built environment, whether that's at home or at

Meredith Oke: 00:20:57

work, is also set up for the exact opposite of

Meredith Oke: 00:21:02

what you and I know to be an optimal human light

Meredith Oke: 00:21:05

environment. So there's no wonder why people are

Meredith Oke: 00:21:11

sick, overweight, or having carbohydrate

Meredith Oke: 00:21:14

addictions. All these problems that we know have

Meredith Oke: 00:21:17

a deep contribution by their light environment.

Meredith Oke: 00:21:21

It's, that's why I respect what you're doing so

Meredith Oke: 00:21:23

much. Because we really need to give an awareness

Meredith Oke: 00:21:27

that, that this is not normal, this is not

Meredith Oke: 00:21:30

natural, and this is very, very meaningfully

Meredith Oke: 00:21:32

impacting health.

Meredith Oke: 00:21:35

Yes. So explain to us what's happening. So let's

Meredith Oke: 00:21:41

start with, with the harmful piece and then we'll

Meredith Oke: 00:21:44

talk about the healing piece, which would be, you

Meredith Oke: 00:21:47

know, going out in natural sunlight, especially

Meredith Oke: 00:21:48

in the morning. But so the harmful piece is I

Meredith Oke: 00:21:52

come home from work at the end of the day, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:21:54

starting to get dark out. I throw on my overhead

Meredith Oke: 00:21:57

led, I turn on the television, I'm scrolling on

Meredith Oke: 00:22:00

my phone, and I do that till like 11 o'clock at

Meredith Oke: 00:22:04

night. And then I shut it all off and go to bed.

Meredith Oke: 00:22:06

And there's still some of those super harsh

Meredith Oke: 00:22:09

street lights coming through the cracks in the

Meredith Oke: 00:22:11

blinds. And it's not quite dark and I can still

Meredith Oke: 00:22:14

kind of see, but whatever, that's the way it is.

Meredith Oke: 00:22:17

And then I wonder why I'm not sleeping well. So

Meredith Oke: 00:22:22

if that's my sort of environment, what is that

Meredith Oke: 00:22:26

light doing to my body? What is the effect?

Meredith Oke: 00:22:30

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so I think of it as you're basically not

Meredith Oke: 00:22:34

giving your body a break, you're not allowing

Meredith Oke: 00:22:36

your body to recover. And the reason why is

Meredith Oke: 00:22:41

because prior to the invention of the electricity

Meredith Oke: 00:22:44

grid, the only sources of light that we had were

Meredith Oke: 00:22:49

candlelight, firelight after dark. And prior to

Meredith Oke: 00:22:54

organized civilization, for the millions of years

Meredith Oke: 00:22:58

of human evolution, we were adapted and evolved

Meredith Oke: 00:23:02

to having periods of distinct absence of light.

Meredith Oke: 00:23:06

So we had sun rising, we had a changing but

Meredith Oke: 00:23:12

balanced exposure to sunlight with visible and

Meredith Oke: 00:23:16

non, non visible spectra that that changed and

Meredith Oke: 00:23:19

modulated throughout the day. That was in a

Meredith Oke: 00:23:22

constant state of programming our biological

Meredith Oke: 00:23:25

functions. And then it ended and there was

Meredith Oke: 00:23:28

complete darkness. And during that period the

Meredith Oke: 00:23:31

body was able to go into its, you know, nocturnal

Meredith Oke: 00:23:34

or its sleep mode with a whole bunch of, of

Meredith Oke: 00:23:38

hormonal actions taking place, particular of that

Meredith Oke: 00:23:42

melatonin hormone from your pineal gland. So

Meredith Oke: 00:23:47

that's kind of the norm. That was what allowed us

Meredith Oke: 00:23:50

to exist and that's what we were adapted to. I

Meredith Oke: 00:23:53

think that's the key point. What is normal, what

Meredith Oke: 00:23:56

is natural? What does our biology need? And that

Meredith Oke: 00:23:58

was it. It was absence of light at dark and it

Meredith Oke: 00:24:01

was constant exposure to natural sunlight

Meredith Oke: 00:24:05

frequencies. So with the invention of the

Meredith Oke: 00:24:07

electric grid and then or fast forward all the

Meredith Oke: 00:24:09

way up to today, the presence of that artificial

Meredith Oke: 00:24:13

light at night is preventing us from accessing

Meredith Oke: 00:24:19

that, that normal light absence period during,

Meredith Oke: 00:24:23

during darkness that we need to recover. So when

Meredith Oke: 00:24:27

that, when that's occurring, we're not making

Meredith Oke: 00:24:29

melatonin, we're not, we have having cortisol

Meredith Oke: 00:24:32

elevated, we're not recovering. And when we're

Meredith Oke: 00:24:36

sending critically the wrong signals to our

Meredith Oke: 00:24:40

biology about how to program the entire organism.

Meredith Oke: 00:24:46

So that's how I think about it at a very high

Meredith Oke: 00:24:49

level. Again it's just like people in this

Meredith Oke: 00:24:54

society are used to eating every two hours. What

Meredith Oke: 00:24:57

was evolutionarily normal that we would have

Meredith Oke: 00:25:00

periods of fasting where we didn't have any food.

Meredith Oke: 00:25:02

So that yin and Yang, the absence and the

Meredith Oke: 00:25:04

presence, absence of food, presence of food,

Meredith Oke: 00:25:06

absence of light, presence of food has been lost.

Meredith Oke: 00:25:08

And now we're constantly just sipping from the

Meredith Oke: 00:25:10

slurpee of artificial light all through the

Meredith Oke: 00:25:14

night. And we can go into the exact mechanisms,

Meredith Oke: 00:25:17

but that's critically the issue because you're

Meredith Oke: 00:25:22

not allowing the body to recover and it has

Meredith Oke: 00:25:25

deleterious effects on our ability to use glucose

Meredith Oke: 00:25:29

to all the mitochondrial function, everything. So

Meredith Oke: 00:25:34

that, that's I guess how I think about it at a

Meredith Oke: 00:25:36

high level.

Meredith Oke: 00:25:39

Lovely, thank you for that explanation. And

Meredith Oke: 00:25:42

that's the explanation that I like to go with

Meredith Oke: 00:25:44

that makes sense to me. Now I know that there are

Meredith Oke: 00:25:47

people listening who are like he said, mechanism,

Meredith Oke: 00:25:50

what is it? So let's, we will briefly, I don't

Meredith Oke: 00:25:54

want to go go too deep into, into that side of

Meredith Oke: 00:25:58

things. But the high level, the high level

Meredith Oke: 00:26:01

explanation is that a lack of darkness and the

Meredith Oke: 00:26:03

presence of artificial light is causing our

Meredith Oke: 00:26:07

bodies to not be able to restore and repair them.

Meredith Oke: 00:26:10

Repair the way we're supposed to when we're

Meredith Oke: 00:26:13

sleeping. So what is the mechanism at play there?

Meredith Oke: 00:26:16

Just briefly, we don't have to spend too long

Meredith Oke: 00:26:18

here, but I know if I don't ask.

Meredith Oke: 00:26:21

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so. So it's the blue, the blue and green

Meredith Oke: 00:26:24

wavelengths when they hit your retina, your eye.

Meredith Oke: 00:26:29

And that light gets sensed by your non visual

Meredith Oke: 00:26:34

photoreceptors, your intrinsically photosensitive

Meredith Oke: 00:26:38

retinal ganglion cells. And there's the opsins,

Meredith Oke: 00:26:41

like melanopsin, sense these light wavelengths

Meredith Oke: 00:26:44

and they send signals all the way from your

Meredith Oke: 00:26:47

retina to your hypothalamus to your

Meredith Oke: 00:26:52

suprachiasmatic nucleus. And that affects the way

Meredith Oke: 00:26:57

your body's, your, your body's ability to make

Meredith Oke: 00:27:00

melatonin. So the melatonin hormones is secreted

Meredith Oke: 00:27:04

by the pineal gland at nighttime, a couple of

Meredith Oke: 00:27:07

hours after sunset, in, in the absence of light,

Meredith Oke: 00:27:09

it gets secreted. So when we're exposed to these

Meredith Oke: 00:27:12

artificial lights, we're telling the body, no,

Meredith Oke: 00:27:15

don't make melatonin. Because again, you, you,

Meredith Oke: 00:27:17

it's the color temperature of the daytime. It's a

Meredith Oke: 00:27:19

daytime like signal. So you, you get that dump of

Meredith Oke: 00:27:24

melatonin that we're supposed to make

Meredith Oke: 00:27:26

appropriately. Plus, people haven't seen this

Meredith Oke: 00:27:28

morning sunrise because their first light that

Meredith Oke: 00:27:31

they've seen has been their phone when they've

Meredith Oke: 00:27:34

woken up. So the programming, the coordination of

Meredith Oke: 00:27:38

the circadian signaling from the beginning of the

Meredith Oke: 00:27:41

day all the way to the point at which they lay

Meredith Oke: 00:27:44

down is being disrupted and is being confused in

Meredith Oke: 00:27:49

the absence of. I mean, melatonin is not the only

Meredith Oke: 00:27:52

hormone. But there's a reason why shift workers

Meredith Oke: 00:27:56

have increased risk of cancer. There's reasons

Meredith Oke: 00:28:01

why vitamin D deficiency is associated with all

Meredith Oke: 00:28:05

these cancers and ischemic heart disease and all

Meredith Oke: 00:28:08

the rest. Because it's a proxy for sunlight

Meredith Oke: 00:28:11

exposure, and it's a proxy for the

Meredith Oke: 00:28:14

appropriateness of one's circadian rhythm. And

Meredith Oke: 00:28:16

when those things are disrupted, then again, your

Meredith Oke: 00:28:22

endogenous antioxidant system, which is governed

Meredith Oke: 00:28:25

by melatonin, precisely, is out of whack. And

Meredith Oke: 00:28:30

melatonin is not only secreted by the pineal

Meredith Oke: 00:28:33

gland, this melatonin made in your mitochondria

Meredith Oke: 00:28:36

by yourselves during the day on exposure to

Meredith Oke: 00:28:38

infrared and UVA light. And that melatonin is

Meredith Oke: 00:28:42

locally having an antioxidant effect. So if

Meredith Oke: 00:28:44

people are not getting daytime sunlight and

Meredith Oke: 00:28:50

they're also exposed to artificial light. They're

Meredith Oke: 00:28:52

having the double whammy of lack of exposure,

Meredith Oke: 00:28:54

lack of secretion of that local daytime melatonin

Meredith Oke: 00:28:57

and the nighttime melatonin. So again, it's like

Meredith Oke: 00:29:01

the antioxidant system isn't being properly

Meredith Oke: 00:29:05

primed or properly allowed to function and you

Meredith Oke: 00:29:08

get mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress

Meredith Oke: 00:29:12

and all these things. So yeah, that's I guess

Meredith Oke: 00:29:18

again focused on the action to melatonin, but

Meredith Oke: 00:29:21

that is how I think about it particularly.

Meredith Oke: 00:29:26

Okay, so these are all the problems that we're

Meredith Oke: 00:29:30

causing in our system by not having a

Meredith Oke: 00:29:33

sufficiently dark or dim light environment in the

Meredith Oke: 00:29:35

evening and while we're sleeping. So what is

Meredith Oke: 00:29:39

going on when we go outside in the morning,

Meredith Oke: 00:29:42

particularly at sunrise or UVA rise that those

Meredith Oke: 00:29:47

first few hours of the day, how is that helping

Meredith Oke: 00:29:51

us?

Meredith Oke: 00:29:52

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, I see it as, as a, the signal, it's like

Meredith Oke: 00:29:57

the, it's maybe it's almost like the, the band or

Meredith Oke: 00:30:01

the orchestra is getting the cue to all start

Meredith Oke: 00:30:04

playing at the same time. You know, otherwise

Meredith Oke: 00:30:07

without, without that coordinating signal, you

Meredith Oke: 00:30:09

know, everyone's kind of still warming up,

Meredith Oke: 00:30:11

playing odd, odd notes at the wrong time. But the

Meredith Oke: 00:30:16

critical aspect of that morning sunlight through

Meredith Oke: 00:30:20

visible and non visible light and later, as you

Meredith Oke: 00:30:24

said, the UVA comes in later in the day is that

Meredith Oke: 00:30:28

we're basically pressing play on all our bodily

Meredith Oke: 00:30:32

processes and getting them aligned and

Meredith Oke: 00:30:34

coordinated to start. I love how Dr. J.

Meredith Oke: 00:30:39

Montgomery describes it. It's like that your eye

Meredith Oke: 00:30:43

is one of the most, it's a most powerful

Meredith Oke: 00:30:46

neuroendocrine organ. So what people I guess

Meredith Oke: 00:30:52

would benefit from understanding is that that eye

Meredith Oke: 00:30:56

is sensing your light environment. It's not only

Meredith Oke: 00:30:59

forming images, it's actually sensing the light

Meredith Oke: 00:31:05

and the different wavelengths of light. And the

Meredith Oke: 00:31:07

morning light is critical because it's

Meredith Oke: 00:31:10

essentially setting you up for not only to start

Meredith Oke: 00:31:13

the day, but it's also setting you up for that,

Meredith Oke: 00:31:16

that night's sleep later in the day. So yeah, I

Meredith Oke: 00:31:21

talked to Kerry Bennett about this and you know,

Meredith Oke: 00:31:23

we, we made the comment that, you know, if

Meredith Oke: 00:31:25

cutting out seed oils is the 8020 of nutrition,

Meredith Oke: 00:31:28

then getting morning sunlight is probably, you

Meredith Oke: 00:31:30

know, the 6040 of, of circadian biology just

Meredith Oke: 00:31:34

because of how important it is in, in programming

Meredith Oke: 00:31:37

everything.

Meredith Oke: 00:31:39

Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting

Meredith Oke: 00:31:42

because before I sort of came to all of this from

Meredith Oke: 00:31:46

a, from a health and healing perspective, the

Meredith Oke: 00:31:49

only time I thought about circadian rhythm was

Meredith Oke: 00:31:51

when I traveled through time zones and became jet

Meredith Oke: 00:31:53

lagged. And I kind of had a vague idea that like,

Meredith Oke: 00:31:57

yeah, circadian rhythm is like why I feel tired

Meredith Oke: 00:32:01

in the middle of the day when I'm in a different

Meredith Oke: 00:32:03

time zone. But I had no understanding, and even

Meredith Oke: 00:32:08

some of the foremost experts in circadian rhythms

Meredith Oke: 00:32:11

had no understanding of just how critical having

Meredith Oke: 00:32:16

a regulated circadian biology is. Could you

Meredith Oke: 00:32:20

really bring that home for us? Because I think

Meredith Oke: 00:32:22

that that's a piece that we often miss. I've come

Meredith Oke: 00:32:26

to the place where I feel like it's basically

Meredith Oke: 00:32:29

impossible to be healthy if your circadian

Meredith Oke: 00:32:32

rhythms are misaligned.

Meredith Oke: 00:32:35

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah. And it ties back to the point we were

Meredith Oke: 00:32:37

making earlier in the discussion, is that the

Meredith Oke: 00:32:40

dietary stuff is important, and it will

Meredith Oke: 00:32:44

definitely help, but it is a facet. I see dietary

Meredith Oke: 00:32:51

interventions. And the biochemistry behind what

Meredith Oke: 00:32:55

we do with diet is fitting into this wider. This

Meredith Oke: 00:33:00

wider area of circadian and mitochondrial health,

Meredith Oke: 00:33:03

which is fundamentally a problem of physics and

Meredith Oke: 00:33:07

of biophysics. So the point is that all these

Meredith Oke: 00:33:13

bodily functions do have a circadian regulation.

Meredith Oke: 00:33:18

And I talked to Dr. Jack Cruz in my podcast

Meredith Oke: 00:33:21

series about Pomse, and for the listeners, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:33:27

essentially a gene that's expressed in a bunch of

Meredith Oke: 00:33:31

neurons and a bunch of places in the body, but it

Meredith Oke: 00:33:34

has all these different products that get made

Meredith Oke: 00:33:38

when we're exposed to UV light that govern

Meredith Oke: 00:33:43

metabolism, they govern the stress response, they

Meredith Oke: 00:33:46

govern addiction centers. So the key. The key

Meredith Oke: 00:33:53

part about why people are eating so much, you

Meredith Oke: 00:33:56

know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of

Meredith Oke: 00:33:59

carbohydrates and sugar addictions and. And the

Meredith Oke: 00:34:03

breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all

Meredith Oke: 00:34:05

are undoubtedly playing a role in. In food

Meredith Oke: 00:34:08

addiction. But the absence of that regulated

Meredith Oke: 00:34:11

circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent

Meredith Oke: 00:34:15

by artificial light exposure. Afternoon. A light

Meredith Oke: 00:34:17

I look at as umbrella kind of causes of. Of

Meredith Oke: 00:34:21

things like carbohydrate addiction, you know,

Meredith Oke: 00:34:23

leptin resistance and insulin resistance. So we

Meredith Oke: 00:34:28

can kind of attack the problem later down the

Meredith Oke: 00:34:31

causal tree. And it's not to say that that, that

Meredith Oke: 00:34:34

won't work. I mean, I. I'm. I just helped a

Meredith Oke: 00:34:37

patient come, you know, half his insulin dose,

Meredith Oke: 00:34:39

and we've only, you know, we. We're doing. On

Meredith Oke: 00:34:42

the. We're doing a low carb diet. But I think

Meredith Oke: 00:34:44

that if we could also get him regulated from a

Meredith Oke: 00:34:47

circadian point of view, then the improvement

Meredith Oke: 00:34:50

that we'd make would be even greater and getting

Meredith Oke: 00:34:54

him out in the sun. So to answer the question, I

Meredith Oke: 00:34:58

see it as the umbrella problem. The umbrella

Meredith Oke: 00:35:01

problem is our. It's our regulated or lack of

Meredith Oke: 00:35:05

regulated circadian rhythm. And the exposure to

Meredith Oke: 00:35:07

all these artificial lights, whether they're

Meredith Oke: 00:35:10

Visible like blue light or non visible like WI fi

Meredith Oke: 00:35:14

and the rest of those types of non native emf.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:19

Right. And so what kind of outcomes are you

Meredith Oke: 00:35:22

seeing in your practice and with your patients

Meredith Oke: 00:35:26

for? Let's start with people who are able to

Meredith Oke: 00:35:30

comply with your suggested light protocols.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:33

What's happening with those people?

Meredith Oke: 00:35:35

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so people, people just feel a lot more

Meredith Oke: 00:35:38

grounded. They feel a lot better. A lot of people

Meredith Oke: 00:35:43

have just described again, what you, what you've

Meredith Oke: 00:35:46

said to me, which is, you know, they felt it was

Meredith Oke: 00:35:48

kind of the missing piece in, in what they have

Meredith Oke: 00:35:51

been doing. I mean, one of my favorite stories is

Meredith Oke: 00:35:53

a old couple, an old lady in her 80s who, who

Meredith Oke: 00:35:59

hadn't slept through the night in the past

Meredith Oke: 00:36:00

probably 15 years. And I just said to her, look,

Meredith Oke: 00:36:04

because I'm a little bit careful with the

Meredith Oke: 00:36:05

elderly, with the low light environment because I

Meredith Oke: 00:36:08

don't want them to fall over after dark, but I

Meredith Oke: 00:36:11

just said, go sit on the porch and see the

Meredith Oke: 00:36:14

sunrise every morning without any kind of glasses

Meredith Oke: 00:36:17

on. And just sitting out there with her husband

Meredith Oke: 00:36:20

every morning was enough to. She came back

Meredith Oke: 00:36:23

ecstatic that she'd slept through the night and

Meredith Oke: 00:36:25

was sleeping through the night for the first time

Meredith Oke: 00:36:27

in over a decade. So really simple and nothing

Meredith Oke: 00:36:32

fancy. But yeah, those type of stories are, are

Meredith Oke: 00:36:37

very, very common. And yeah, people, people are

Meredith Oke: 00:36:43

finding that, you know, often I'm seeing a lot of

Meredith Oke: 00:36:47

patients who perhaps have been through

Meredith Oke: 00:36:49

naturopaths, a couple maybe functional doctors

Meredith Oke: 00:36:54

and you know, they're on a, they're on a list of,

Meredith Oke: 00:36:56

of supplements and that no one's talked about

Meredith Oke: 00:37:00

their line environment. And again, it's like,

Meredith Oke: 00:37:03

yeah, we can add all these things in. But you

Meredith Oke: 00:37:07

know, maybe you listeners of Red, Nassim Taleb,

Meredith Oke: 00:37:10

he's got a concept of via Negativa, which is

Meredith Oke: 00:37:12

first remove the bad before we add things on. And

Meredith Oke: 00:37:17

I think removing that or improving that line

Meredith Oke: 00:37:20

environment should be in terms of order of

Meredith Oke: 00:37:23

operations. It takes precedent. Before we add,

Meredith Oke: 00:37:26

you know, a list of expensive supplements.

Meredith Oke: 00:37:30

Yeah, yeah, I really come to think that as well.

Meredith Oke: 00:37:36

And again, when I first got into that, like I was

Meredith Oke: 00:37:38

saying earlier, we have that all or nothing

Meredith Oke: 00:37:40

thinking, I was like, I'm never taking a

Meredith Oke: 00:37:42

supplement ever again. It's all about light. So

Meredith Oke: 00:37:45

I've now sort of softened that stance and I do

Meredith Oke: 00:37:49

think that supplementation has its place. But as

Meredith Oke: 00:37:52

you said, after you've optimized your light

Meredith Oke: 00:37:55

environment. Because how, like, how can a

Meredith Oke: 00:37:58

practitioner even know what supplement would be

Meredith Oke: 00:38:01

useful to somebody if their body is in total

Meredith Oke: 00:38:04

circadian chaos? Right. If they're totally

Meredith Oke: 00:38:06

dysregulated if they're not. Like if you put

Meredith Oke: 00:38:09

someone on a melatonin supplement when the

Meredith Oke: 00:38:12

problem could be fixed with light, like you're

Meredith Oke: 00:38:14

not solving any problems, as you pointed out.

Meredith Oke: 00:38:17

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah. And the point I wanted to make as

Meredith Oke: 00:38:20

well is that you know that, that the light part,

Meredith Oke: 00:38:25

the signals like the retinal hypothalamic tract

Meredith Oke: 00:38:28

that goes from your eye to your hypothalamus,

Meredith Oke: 00:38:31

that projects to your pituitary gland and the

Meredith Oke: 00:38:33

regulation of all those pituitary hormones is

Meredith Oke: 00:38:36

influenced by, by our light environment. So it's

Meredith Oke: 00:38:39

not just the pineal and the melatonin, but

Meredith Oke: 00:38:42

everything along all these axes, the ovarian, the

Meredith Oke: 00:38:45

adrenal, everything, the thyroid, all these axes

Meredith Oke: 00:38:49

have an influence by, by light signal. And the

Meredith Oke: 00:38:52

coordination of a lot of these hormones which

Meredith Oke: 00:38:56

follow diurnal curves is influenced by the light

Meredith Oke: 00:39:00

environment. And the other point, Meredith, is

Meredith Oke: 00:39:04

that this is not like hoodoo or it's not like

Meredith Oke: 00:39:08

this is not science that exists. If you look in

Meredith Oke: 00:39:12

PubMed and you type in these findings, there is a

Meredith Oke: 00:39:17

massive body of scientific literature that is

Meredith Oke: 00:39:21

describing everything that we're talking about

Meredith Oke: 00:39:24

and as is the case with a range of lifestyle

Meredith Oke: 00:39:28

medicine, is that that scientific foundation is

Meredith Oke: 00:39:32

simply not being translated or applied in a

Meredith Oke: 00:39:37

clinical practice setting. It's not because

Meredith Oke: 00:39:40

there's an absence of evidence of efficacy. It's

Meredith Oke: 00:39:43

simply that the guidelines are not reflecting

Meredith Oke: 00:39:46

what we know to be true and effective. And we say

Meredith Oke: 00:39:52

the same thing in the dietary low carb paradigm.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:56

And there's lots of different reasons for that,

Meredith Oke: 00:39:59

but one could, especially a patient or other

Meredith Oke: 00:40:02

doctors who might be listening. One could be

Meredith Oke: 00:40:04

misled to think that this is very, very fringe,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:07

or there's simply not the evidence to justify

Meredith Oke: 00:40:10

what we're talking about. But it takes a very,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:13

very cursory look at the evidence in the

Meredith Oke: 00:40:15

literature to even. You can look up Wikipedia if

Meredith Oke: 00:40:19

you, if you don't want to go that deep. But

Meredith Oke: 00:40:21

everything that we've talked about is very well

Meredith Oke: 00:40:24

researched and, and applied, kind of established.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:28

And the application of the knowledge through

Meredith Oke: 00:40:32

things like blue light blocking glasses and red

Meredith Oke: 00:40:34

lights and all this kind of thing is simply the

Meredith Oke: 00:40:37

application of that science that already exists.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:41

So I just want to make that point to some of your

Meredith Oke: 00:40:45

listeners who might think this is fringe. It's.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:48

If you look yourself and not rely on a filter of

Meredith Oke: 00:40:53

perhaps mainstream medicine, functional medicine,

Meredith Oke: 00:40:57

all these entities that have their own reasons,

Meredith Oke: 00:41:01

often financial, for promoting certain treatment

Meredith Oke: 00:41:05

protocols over others, if you do your own

Meredith Oke: 00:41:07

research, you'll find that what we've been

Meredith Oke: 00:41:09

talking about is very well established.

Meredith Oke: 00:41:13

That is a really, really good point. Yes. The

Meredith Oke: 00:41:19

research just on circadian rhythm alone is. I

Meredith Oke: 00:41:23

mean, I feel like every month some major new

Meredith Oke: 00:41:26

paper comes out just showing just how important

Meredith Oke: 00:41:29

it is. And last summer, the New York Times

Meredith Oke: 00:41:31

Magazine did a huge cover story. It was like 10

Meredith Oke: 00:41:35

pages long on circadian rhythm. And there's like

Meredith Oke: 00:41:39

an anecdote in there where some of the research

Meredith Oke: 00:41:42

came out that showed just how, how important it

Meredith Oke: 00:41:45

is. And the, the head of the Circadian Research

Meredith Oke: 00:41:48

Institute was like, what? Really? Oh, we, we were

Meredith Oke: 00:41:52

just, we were just thinking like light and like

Meredith Oke: 00:41:55

sort of light cycles, and they had no idea. So

Meredith Oke: 00:41:57

it. Yes, it is. Absolutely. The evidence is all

Meredith Oke: 00:42:00

there and that's what we talk about a lot. And

Meredith Oke: 00:42:02

why, like, we started the certification is like.

Meredith Oke: 00:42:05

And what you're doing with your podcast, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:42:07

like building a bridge from the science into the

Meredith Oke: 00:42:10

practice. Because I don't know if it ever existed

Meredith Oke: 00:42:14

or if it, or if the bridge broke, but there does

Meredith Oke: 00:42:16

not seem to be a pipeline of best practice into

Meredith Oke: 00:42:21

that's going into the offices of the

Meredith Oke: 00:42:24

practitioners, even the naturopaths. Right. Like,

Meredith Oke: 00:42:26

it's, there's a disconnect there. And all of, all

Meredith Oke: 00:42:31

of this. And maybe it's because the answer is so

Meredith Oke: 00:42:33

simple, right? Like, go and watch. Sit on your

Meredith Oke: 00:42:37

porch at sunrise with your husband. It's like, if

Meredith Oke: 00:42:42

I feel like solving 15 years of insomnia should

Meredith Oke: 00:42:45

be more complicated than that. Yeah, but it's not

Meredith Oke: 00:42:48

in most cases.

Meredith Oke: 00:42:50

Dr. Max Gulhane: And, and that point you made about the

Meredith Oke: 00:42:53

simplicity, I do think that the degree to which

Meredith Oke: 00:42:57

something is simple is that agree to which

Meredith Oke: 00:42:59

someone can't make money off it. So, yeah,

Meredith Oke: 00:43:03

getting your feet on the bare earth and watching

Meredith Oke: 00:43:06

the morning sunrise is the cheapest intervention,

Meredith Oke: 00:43:10

health intervention in maybe the history of the

Meredith Oke: 00:43:13

world. And no one can make money off that. And we

Meredith Oke: 00:43:19

see not only mainstream medicine, but as you

Meredith Oke: 00:43:24

mentioned, functional neuropathy, that there's

Meredith Oke: 00:43:27

expensive solutions to problems that have, you

Meredith Oke: 00:43:31

know, that these are light problems. So perhaps

Meredith Oke: 00:43:34

that's, that's, you know, if I was putting my

Meredith Oke: 00:43:37

skeptical hat on, I would, I would definitely say

Meredith Oke: 00:43:39

that it's a money issue. And no one can make

Meredith Oke: 00:43:41

money from these simple circadian interventions.

Meredith Oke: 00:43:45

So that's why they're less well promoted, I

Meredith Oke: 00:43:50

guess. What. And I really like how you framed

Meredith Oke: 00:43:53

the, the job of making this pipeline into. To the

Meredith Oke: 00:43:56

practitioners. And yeah, I see that as critical.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:01

And just like what you're doing, you don't

Meredith Oke: 00:44:03

necessarily need to have an MD to kind of give

Meredith Oke: 00:44:06

this advice. Health Coaches, anyone can give this

Meredith Oke: 00:44:08

advice and if it's in the best interest of the

Meredith Oke: 00:44:13

patient, then other MDs need to put aside their

Meredith Oke: 00:44:17

egos and not feel like this is, you know,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:21

privileged information and they're the only ones

Meredith Oke: 00:44:23

able to give this information. If it's in the

Meredith Oke: 00:44:25

best interest of the patient, then this needs to

Meredith Oke: 00:44:27

be talked about by everyone. No matter what their

Meredith Oke: 00:44:30

training background is. If they understand what,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:33

what, how the biology works and they're giving

Meredith Oke: 00:44:35

good advice, then that, that, that's key. The,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:38

the other point I wanted to make is that coming

Meredith Oke: 00:44:42

from metabolic lifestyle, a dietary kind of

Meredith Oke: 00:44:47

paradigm originally and actively practicing as a

Meredith Oke: 00:44:51

doctor who's reversing diabetes and lifestyle

Meredith Oke: 00:44:54

diseases with low carb carnivore, I see it as a

Meredith Oke: 00:44:58

personal interest of mine to integrate the

Meredith Oke: 00:45:01

dietary and the light stuff from a metabolic

Meredith Oke: 00:45:05

point of view. And that's why I'm so interested

Meredith Oke: 00:45:08

in what Dr. Jack Cruz was talking about, about

Meredith Oke: 00:45:13

COMC and protein called clip and all these

Meredith Oke: 00:45:19

ability for blue light to promote fasting, raised

Meredith Oke: 00:45:24

fasting glucose and fasting insulin irrespective

Meredith Oke: 00:45:27

of food. Because I think that is a real

Meredith Oke: 00:45:30

underserved or under talked about area, which is

Meredith Oke: 00:45:32

the intersection of, of the light environment and

Meredith Oke: 00:45:35

metabolism. And that, that is really, really

Meredith Oke: 00:45:38

fascinating because so many people are insulin

Meredith Oke: 00:45:40

resistant and metabolically unwell and have

Meredith Oke: 00:45:43

visceral fat. So that is, yeah, that's a personal

Meredith Oke: 00:45:47

interest of mine. And I hope to, I guess, keep

Meredith Oke: 00:45:50

keep going on this intellectual journey and keep

Meredith Oke: 00:45:52

talking to people from both areas and, and kind

Meredith Oke: 00:45:56

of package this up in a way that again is most

Meredith Oke: 00:46:01

able to give to a patient who's got diabetes,

Meredith Oke: 00:46:04

fatty liver, visceral fat, and be like, okay,

Meredith Oke: 00:46:07

here you go. This is how we start to heal you.

Meredith Oke: 00:46:12

That's a wonderful idea. I love that so much and

Meredith Oke: 00:46:17

what it brings up for me again as a coach who

Meredith Oke: 00:46:21

works with people on the more emotional and

Meredith Oke: 00:46:23

behavior change side, is that bringing in the

Meredith Oke: 00:46:28

light piece and marrying the metabolic with the

Meredith Oke: 00:46:32

circadian, I think also just gives people such a,

Meredith Oke: 00:46:37

it's a real relief, right? Because there's so

Meredith Oke: 00:46:40

much shame around our food habits, especially if

Meredith Oke: 00:46:43

you have diet, you know, you have type 2 diabetes

Meredith Oke: 00:46:45

or you're overweight, people feel so much shame

Meredith Oke: 00:46:48

that they can't control it. And then to get the

Meredith Oke: 00:46:51

knowledge that there are other habits in their

Meredith Oke: 00:46:54

life that they see as completely disconnected

Meredith Oke: 00:46:56

from this problem, like looking at their phone at

Meredith Oke: 00:47:00

midnight on full factory settings, to know that

Meredith Oke: 00:47:04

those things are actively working against them

Meredith Oke: 00:47:07

and making everything worse. And it's not just a

Meredith Oke: 00:47:09

willpower it's not just that they're totally

Meredith Oke: 00:47:15

screwed and there's no way out. I do see that it

Meredith Oke: 00:47:19

offers relief and hope to know that actually I've

Meredith Oke: 00:47:22

been swimming against the current trying to

Meredith Oke: 00:47:26

change how my body's responding to food without

Meredith Oke: 00:47:28

changing my life.

Meredith Oke: 00:47:30

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, definitely, yes.

Meredith Oke: 00:47:31

So anything else Dr. Gilhane, that you'd like to

Meredith Oke: 00:47:34

leave us with?

Meredith Oke: 00:47:35

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, so, so I'm yeah, on, on the vein of, of I

Meredith Oke: 00:47:39

guess marrying all this together. I'm hosting an

Meredith Oke: 00:47:43

event in, in Albury and hopefully it'll be the

Meredith Oke: 00:47:47

first of many. But I've got Dr. Jalal Khan who's

Meredith Oke: 00:47:51

a circadian quantum dentist and I'll be talking.

Meredith Oke: 00:47:56

We've got Dr. Anthony Chaffee who's on the

Meredith Oke: 00:47:59

carnivore side. We've got some regenerative,

Meredith Oke: 00:48:02

regenerative pharma who I work with. So we're

Meredith Oke: 00:48:05

really kind of bringing in all aspects of, of

Meredith Oke: 00:48:08

what I think is, is good, relevant for people's

Meredith Oke: 00:48:11

health. And I really think that moving forward,

Meredith Oke: 00:48:15

like collectively we don't need more drugs,

Meredith Oke: 00:48:20

people don't need more drugs, they don't need

Meredith Oke: 00:48:24

more supplements, they need more very high

Meredith Oke: 00:48:30

quality, regeneratively raised ruminant meat.

Meredith Oke: 00:48:33

They need more seafood, they need more circadian

Meredith Oke: 00:48:37

regulation and they need less WI fi and less,

Meredith Oke: 00:48:41

less, less drugs. So that is I guess an angle

Meredith Oke: 00:48:46

that I'm really excited about in the future. And

Meredith Oke: 00:48:50

I think that optimal health for everyone, for the

Meredith Oke: 00:48:54

population, for reversing this chronic disease

Meredith Oke: 00:48:57

epidemic, for reversing the metabolic disease

Meredith Oke: 00:48:59

epidemic, for addressing all the fundamental

Meredith Oke: 00:49:04

problems, rising cancer and dementia rates,

Meredith Oke: 00:49:07

everything in my mind this is just my opinion

Meredith Oke: 00:49:10

lies in this confluence of an optimal human

Meredith Oke: 00:49:16

species, appropriate diet of unprocessed food

Meredith Oke: 00:49:19

rich in animal products and a highly regulated

Meredith Oke: 00:49:23

circadian rhythm, the absence of artificial light

Meredith Oke: 00:49:27

at night and morning sunrise and everything like

Meredith Oke: 00:49:31

that. And I think that regenerative farming is a

Meredith Oke: 00:49:34

key point because that's one of the delivery

Meredith Oke: 00:49:36

mechanisms of getting that high quality food into

Meredith Oke: 00:49:38

people. So that's, I guess to end this

Meredith Oke: 00:49:42

discussion. Again, it's like I'm emphasizing the

Meredith Oke: 00:49:44

holistic aspect of this. And again it's not just

Meredith Oke: 00:49:48

one thing, it's a whole confluence of things. And

Meredith Oke: 00:49:51

if we can add up, you know, all these 5

Meredith Oke: 00:49:53

percenters in terms of behavior change, then

Meredith Oke: 00:49:56

that's the key to, to optimal health as I see it.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:01

I love it. Okay. And we actually there are quite

Meredith Oke: 00:50:05

a lot of quantum enthusiasts in Australia so I

Meredith Oke: 00:50:09

want to just give some more details. When is your

Meredith Oke: 00:50:12

event?

Meredith Oke: 00:50:13

Dr. Max Gulhane: So it will be on August 6th in Albury here,

Meredith Oke: 00:50:18

Aubrey. New South Wales.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:20

Okay. And Albury is, you said sort of in between

Meredith Oke: 00:50:24

Sydney and Melbourne, is that right? Did I get

Meredith Oke: 00:50:27

that? Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:27

Dr. Max Gulhane: Correct.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:27

Okay.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:28

Dr. Max Gulhane: So it's about, it's about a six hour drive from

Meredith Oke: 00:50:30

Sydney and it's a three and a half hour drive

Meredith Oke: 00:50:32

from Melbourne on the border of Queens of

Meredith Oke: 00:50:36

Victoria and New South Wales.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:37

Okay. And this event takes place over, over two

Meredith Oke: 00:50:40

or three days or it's a.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:43

Dr. Max Gulhane: It'S a single day event. There'll be about,

Meredith Oke: 00:50:45

there's four, four speakers and. But we're

Meredith Oke: 00:50:49

organizing a farm tour at the local Jake Wilkes

Meredith Oke: 00:50:52

farm that will be happening day before and we'll

Meredith Oke: 00:50:56

also be organizing an event dinner. So I'll, I

Meredith Oke: 00:51:00

might send you the details. You can put them in

Meredith Oke: 00:51:02

the show notes.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:02

We will put the details to that in the show

Meredith Oke: 00:51:04

notes. We have shared this event in our

Meredith Oke: 00:51:07

newsletter. We'll do that again and I'll

Meredith Oke: 00:51:09

especially make sure that all of, all of our, the

Meredith Oke: 00:51:12

Australian QVC members are aware of it and. Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:17

Are you going to record the speakers? Will people.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:19

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:21

Great.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:21

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:22

So we'll share those details when they come out

Meredith Oke: 00:51:24

as well for people if they want to access the

Meredith Oke: 00:51:27

recordings because this sounds like a, sounds

Meredith Oke: 00:51:30

like a beautiful event. I'm so happy you're doing

Meredith Oke: 00:51:32

it. I do think, as much as I love leveraging

Meredith Oke: 00:51:35

technology, I do think in person meetups are, are

Meredith Oke: 00:51:38

absolutely the key. We've got a quantum entangle

Meredith Oke: 00:51:42

at a close up range.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:44

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:48

Okay.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:51

Dr. Max Gulhane: Yeah. And if, if anyone is wanting to follow my

Meredith Oke: 00:51:54

podcast. Yeah. As you said earlier, it's the

Meredith Oke: 00:51:56

Regenerative Health podcast on the podcasting

Meredith Oke: 00:52:00

apps. And I'm also on Twitter maxcorhan md and

Meredith Oke: 00:52:05

Instagram. Dr. Underscore. Max underscore Gulhein.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:10

Perfect. And we will have links to all of that in

Meredith Oke: 00:52:13

the show notes as well. So check out Dr.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:16

Gulhane's podcast and follow him on his socials

Meredith Oke: 00:52:21

and yeah, let's, let's keep this movement

Meredith Oke: 00:52:24

growing. Thank you so much for your time today.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:27

This has just been an absolute pleasure.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:29

Dr. Max Gulhane: Thank you Meredith and thanks for everything you

Meredith Oke: 00:52:31

do as well.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:32

Thank you. This has been the Quantum Biology

Meredith Oke: 00:52:37

Collective podcast to find a practitioner who

Meredith Oke: 00:52:40

practices from this point of view. Visit our

Meredith Oke: 00:52:43

directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are

Meredith Oke: 00:52:48

a practitioner, definitely take a look at the

Meredith Oke: 00:52:51

Applied Quantum Biology certification. A six week

Meredith Oke: 00:52:55

study of the science of the new human health

Meredith Oke: 00:52:57

paradigm and its practical application with your

Meredith Oke: 00:53:01

patients and clients. We also love to feature

Meredith Oke: 00:53:04

graduates of the program on this very podcast.

Meredith Oke: 00:53:08

Until next time, the QVC.