Episode 138

138: The Shocking Truth About Blue Light and Your Sleep with Bon Charge's Katie & Andy Mant

📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube

"Blue light after dark can really impact your body's natural ability to produce melatonin," says Katie Mant, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective Podcast with her husband Andy to discuss their journey founding Bon Charge, a company dedicated to optimizing sleep and health through light management. The couple shares how they went from experimenting with "safety goggles" in their bedroom to developing stylish blue light blocking glasses that effectively filter specific wavelengths of light. They explain why managing our exposure to artificial light is crucial in today's world, where our ancient circadian rhythms are constantly disrupted by modern technology.

Andy and Katie delve into the science behind light's impact on our biology, discussing how different frequencies of light affect our hormones, sleep quality, and overall well-being. They also explore the benefits of red light therapy for anti-aging and muscle recovery. This episode offers practical insights on how to incorporate light management into daily life without completely disconnecting from the modern world. Tune in to learn how small changes in your light environment can lead to significant improvements in your health and appearance.

5 Key Takeaways

1. Wear blue light blocking glasses 2-3 hours before bed to improve sleep quality by allowing your body to produce melatonin naturally.

2. Get outside for morning sunlight and evening sunset to support your circadian rhythm and overall wellbeing.

3. Try red light therapy for anti-aging benefits and muscle recovery after workouts. The near-infrared light penetrates deep to relax muscles and smooth skin.

4. Make small, sustainable changes rather than overhauling your entire lifestyle. Simple tweaks like changing a lightbulb or wearing blue blockers can have a big impact.

5. Balance modern technology use with ancestral practices. You don't have to give up devices completely, but be intentional about when you use them and protect yourself with blue blocking glasses.

Memorable Quotes

1. "We want to be able to reach people before they get sick. It's great to help people recover, but how do we reach those who are healthy already or starting to go down the slippery slope?" - Andy Mant
2. "There's nothing wrong with the modern world. We're blessed to be in a time of rapid technological advancement. It's just not letting it overrun us, remembering where we've come from, and making sure we blend both." - Katie Mant
3. "When we apply heat after we work out, it enables the muscles to start relaxing, more energy to be produced in the muscular system. As a result, we start to recover faster." - Andy Mant

Connect with Katie & Andy Mant

Website - boncharge.com

Instagram / Andy - https://www.instagram.com/iamandymant

Instagram / Katie - https://www.instagram.com/katiemant_

Resources Mentioned

Bon Charge: https://boncharge.com/

Whoop (fitness tracker): https://www.whoop.com/

Oura Ring (sleep and activity tracker): https://ouraring.com/

The Telepathy Tapes (podcast): https://thetelepathytapes.com/

Dave Asprey (biohacker and entrepreneur): https://daveasprey.com/

Brian Johnson (biohacker and entrepreneur): https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/

QBC Resources

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You can join the FREE QBC online community here: https://qbcpod.com/freecommunity

Instagram: https://instagram.com/quantumbiologycollective

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/QuantumHealthTV

X/Twitter: https://x.com/IAQB_Foundation

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Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast: https://fullcast.co

Transcript
Meredith Oke:

Andy and Katie Mandt, welcome to the QVC podcast.

Katie Mant:

Hey, how are you doing?

Andy Mant:

Hey, Meredith, thanks for having us.

Meredith Oke:

My pleasure, Andy. We had a great chat last time

Meredith Oke:

and I'm super excited to do it again with Katie

Meredith Oke:

in the house.

Katie Mant:

Yay.

Meredith Oke:

As the two of you founded this company together.

Meredith Oke:

And Katie, I was actually just listening to you

Meredith Oke:

on a podcast talking about how you both, the two

Meredith Oke:

of you started this sort of like out of your

Meredith Oke:

bedroom while you were both working other jobs

Meredith Oke:

and you ordered these glasses and you were like,

Meredith Oke:

oh my gosh, this is so important. People really

Meredith Oke:

need these. And it just kind of took off.

Katie Mant:

That is so true.

Meredith Oke:

Tell me a bit about, like, that's such a fun

Meredith Oke:

journey.

Katie Mant:

Yeah. Do you know what? It's actually quite funny

Katie Mant:

as well. It was leading up to our wedding, which

Katie Mant:

is going on about eight years ago now. Like any

Katie Mant:

bride and groom, you're trying to get into the

Katie Mant:

best physique for those photos. So we were like

Katie Mant:

exercising more, dieting just to sort of get the

Katie Mant:

best physiques. And it was Andy that decided to

Katie Mant:

look into sleep and how that impacts what you eat

Katie Mant:

and your energy levels and how well that you work

Katie Mant:

out at the gym. And he went down this rabbit

Katie Mant:

warren reading all the different scientific

Katie Mant:

studies out there to understand how do you

Katie Mant:

improve sleep. And then through that, learned

Katie Mant:

that artificial blue light after dark can really

Katie Mant:

impact your body's natural ability to produce

Katie Mant:

melatonin. So Andy started off by ordering a pair

Katie Mant:

of blue light blocking glasses off a well known

Katie Mant:

platform. They arrived and oh my gosh, I wish we

Katie Mant:

took photos that I could share it with the

Katie Mant:

community. Now they were full on safety goggles

Katie Mant:

and he'd wear them in the evening watching

Katie Mant:

Cavity. I thought he was mad. Honestly, I was

Katie Mant:

like, I have a pair like that.

Meredith Oke:

They're like the big square plastic orange.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, it's like orange. Like literally something

Katie Mant:

out of laboratory. So he started wearing these

Katie Mant:

off work and I was like, you are a freak. What

Katie Mant:

are you doing? But his sleep did start to improve

Katie Mant:

a little bit. So I was like, okay, there is

Katie Mant:

something here. But the, the signs know that Andy

Katie Mant:

has kept delving deeper and deeper to understand,

Katie Mant:

well, why are they working and why are they not

Katie Mant:

profoundly impacting his sleep? They're only

Katie Mant:

having a slight impact on it. Learned that

Katie Mant:

there's very specific wavelengths that need to be

Katie Mant:

blocked. Not just generic blue light, a very

Katie Mant:

specific wavelength of blue and some green light,

Katie Mant:

and then struggles to find any glasses that

Katie Mant:

actually did block that. So long story short, we

Katie Mant:

were like, there's an opportunity here. To design

Katie Mant:

something that's actually stylish that people

Katie Mant:

would want to wear because there's no way I'd go

Katie Mant:

out to a restaurant wearing the glasses that he

Katie Mant:

was wearing, that correct lens that block the

Katie Mant:

right round frequencies to optimize sleep. And so

Katie Mant:

the journey sort of evolved from there quite

Katie Mant:

quickly, to be honest with you. Once we found out

Katie Mant:

how to develop the, the lens and what needed to

Katie Mant:

be done, the rest was quite smooth sailing,

Katie Mant:

wasn't it really? Reaching out to influencers and

Katie Mant:

people that we were networked with to begin with

Katie Mant:

to give them a pair to see if they could have,

Katie Mant:

have a go and report back. And they all reported

Katie Mant:

back how great they were and how much better than

Katie Mant:

the original pair that they had. And so we just

Katie Mant:

launched the brand and, and ran with it. A little

Katie Mant:

bit blind I guess in the beginning. Just thought,

Katie Mant:

let's just do it and see. We still had jobs at

Katie Mant:

the time, so it was a side hustle. So there was

Katie Mant:

no sort of commitment or impact on us. It was

Katie Mant:

just a side like passion project that quickly

Katie Mant:

grew that allowed us to then leave our day jobs

Katie Mant:

and run it full time and over the years now have

Katie Mant:

grown it. We've got a team of about 35 staff now.

Katie Mant:

So it's been an evil.

Meredith Oke:

That's crazy. Yeah, I think too, I think it's

Meredith Oke:

good. I always say if I knew now what I knew at

Meredith Oke:

the beginning of any given project, I'm like, I

Meredith Oke:

would never have done it. We have to be a little,

Meredith Oke:

a little blind to what we're getting ourselves

Meredith Oke:

into.

Katie Mant:

Just go with it, go with your gut.

Meredith Oke:

You just gotta go for it.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, absolutely.

Meredith Oke:

So Andy, if you could just, you know, I know, I

Meredith Oke:

know everyone listening, I know, you know, but I

Meredith Oke:

don't think we can, I really don't think that we

Meredith Oke:

can hear it too many times, please. And you're so

Meredith Oke:

good at explaining it, Andy. So please tell us

Meredith Oke:

why. Why do we need to block blue light at night?

Andy Mant:

I know, yeah, it's, it's that double edged sword,

Andy Mant:

blue light. It's such a fantastic thing when used

Andy Mant:

correctly and such a bad thing when used

Andy Mant:

incorrectly. So I always like to go back to how

Andy Mant:

we were ancestrally. Okay, so hundreds of

Andy Mant:

thousands of years ago we evolved as you know,

Andy Mant:

through our life cycle to human beings that we

Andy Mant:

are now. But one thing that evolved all those

Andy Mant:

hundreds of thousands of years ago was something

Andy Mant:

called a body clock, a circadian rhythm. And it's

Andy Mant:

a little tiny clock system that's in the middle

Andy Mant:

of our brain. And what it does Is it uses light

Andy Mant:

to tell your body, your internal mechanisms, what

Andy Mant:

time of the day it is. And why that's so

Andy Mant:

important is it allows for certain hormones,

Andy Mant:

hormones and neurotransmitters to either be

Andy Mant:

released or suppressed. So as we lived

Andy Mant:

ancestrally, we live mainly outside, right? So we

Andy Mant:

would get up in the morning hundreds of thousands

Andy Mant:

of years ago with the rising sun. And what that

Andy Mant:

would do is that would tell our body clock, our

Andy Mant:

circadian rhythm, that it was daytime. And it

Andy Mant:

knew this because the blue light would stimulate

Andy Mant:

dopamine, serotonin and cortisol, which are all

Andy Mant:

really important for us to be active during the

Andy Mant:

day. We needed to be active during the day

Andy Mant:

because we needed to go out to hunt, to gather,

Andy Mant:

and to do what, what we used to do back in those

Andy Mant:

days. Now, as we were outside all day, the

Andy Mant:

sunlight actually changes in its spectrum gently

Andy Mant:

throughout the day and into the, into the

Andy Mant:

evening. And all those little subtle changes in

Andy Mant:

light was telling our circadian rhythm what time

Andy Mant:

of day it was. And to dial things down, dial

Andy Mant:

hormones up, and just keep us really in hormonal

Andy Mant:

bliss. And then as the sun set in the evenings,

Andy Mant:

that would then signal to our clock system that,

Andy Mant:

okay, blue lights going now, so the evening must

Andy Mant:

be coming. We need to lower cortisol and we need

Andy Mant:

to increase the hormone melatonin, which is our

Andy Mant:

sleep hormone. And then we put the campfire on.

Andy Mant:

You know, we'd probably sit around there talking

Andy Mant:

or eating those types of things. And that would

Andy Mant:

be in the presence of orange and red light, which

Andy Mant:

has been shown in studies to help increase

Andy Mant:

melatonin production, which is great. Then we

Andy Mant:

would go to sleep and we wake up the next morning

Andy Mant:

and that cycle would continue until we died of

Andy Mant:

old age or eaten by a saber toothed tiger,

Andy Mant:

whatever it might have been. But what we've done

Andy Mant:

now is as we've evolved light, like, you know,

Andy Mant:

when you go into like say the 1700s and the

Andy Mant:

1800s, we still would have had that kind of

Andy Mant:

rhythm and that kind of natural light cues. We

Andy Mant:

didn't really have artificial light in those

Andy Mant:

eras. We would have had, you know, moved around

Andy Mant:

the house with a lantern that was like a candle.

Andy Mant:

We'd have had candlelight, firelight, things like

Andy Mant:

that still exist. But it wasn't until recently

Andy Mant:

that the, the governments and the companies,

Andy Mant:

they, they invented something called LED lights.

Andy Mant:

And what they did with these lights is they

Andy Mant:

stripped out all the red light, most of the

Andy Mant:

orange light, and they left in the blue light and

Andy Mant:

some of the green light. And these were put into

Andy Mant:

our house lights at the time. And what this did

Andy Mant:

was every, every time the sun would set and we'd

Andy Mant:

go in and we'd watch telly, which is where LEDs

Andy Mant:

are, or we turn on our house lights or, or in the

Andy Mant:

last 20 years, scroll for our smartphone that

Andy Mant:

still sends light signals to our ancient

Andy Mant:

circadian rhythm, our ancient body clock. So this

Andy Mant:

body clock can't distinguish between artificial

Andy Mant:

and natural light. So what it's doing is these

Andy Mant:

little artificial suns that are all scattered

Andy Mant:

around our house or our workplace after sunset is

Andy Mant:

still telling our body clock that it's evening

Andy Mant:

time, that it's sorry, that it's daytime, and to

Andy Mant:

keep cortisol level high and to not have high

Andy Mant:

levels of melatonin, the sleep hormone. So our

Andy Mant:

bodies are now believing that we're in perpetual

Andy Mant:

daylight, there is no darkness anymore because

Andy Mant:

the light signals aren't stopping after sunset,

Andy Mant:

which they used to do. So we have to think

Andy Mant:

ancestrally and go back to how our ancestors used

Andy Mant:

to live to be able to mimic what they saw, which

Andy Mant:

is darkness after sunset. So we do that by

Andy Mant:

wearing the glasses you're wearing now, by

Andy Mant:

changing some of the lighting in our house, by

Andy Mant:

powering down electronic devices one to two hours

Andy Mant:

before bed so our circadian rhythms can actually

Andy Mant:

understand what time of day it is and to produce

Andy Mant:

the correct hormones to allow us to sleep better.

Meredith Oke:

Right. It makes so much sense when you say it and

Meredith Oke:

yet we don't think about it. I mean, the three of

Meredith Oke:

us do and people listening do, but up and you

Meredith Oke:

know, up until we stumbled on this information,

Meredith Oke:

it just doesn't see, it just doesn't occur to

Meredith Oke:

people. And when, you know, I think anyone who's

Meredith Oke:

interested in their health, they understand,

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, if I eat like ultra processed high

Meredith Oke:

sugar foods, that's going to be really difficult

Meredith Oke:

for my body because that's not food found in

Meredith Oke:

nature. I should eat real food. Everyone's like,

Meredith Oke:

oh yeah, totally, that makes sense. But we don't

Meredith Oke:

take that next step and then apply it to all of

Meredith Oke:

the other things that our body is communicating

Meredith Oke:

with.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, it's so true. It's that whole thing of what

Andy Mant:

you don't know, you don't know. And there's

Andy Mant:

probably tons of other things that as humans we

Andy Mant:

don't know are impacting us from a, you know, a

Andy Mant:

really negative standpoint. I mean, it's only

Andy Mant:

until recently that we weren't even thinking

Andy Mant:

about EMF radiation, you know, like 5G Wi Fi, 4G

Andy Mant:

cellular towers. And it's, that's really allowing

Andy Mant:

people to start wake up. Waking up now to, well,

Andy Mant:

blue light is actually on the EMF spectrum, EMF

Andy Mant:

radiation, like what I've just discussed there is

Andy Mant:

on that spectrum. And it's all impacting and

Andy Mant:

interacting with our cells in a way that the

Andy Mant:

human body has never had before. Like, we've

Andy Mant:

evolved for millions of years and the systems

Andy Mant:

that have evolved within us biologically have

Andy Mant:

been around for that length of time as well. They

Andy Mant:

haven't just suddenly evolved in the last 30

Andy Mant:

years, they've been around for millions of years

Andy Mant:

in us. And now we're almost creating an

Andy Mant:

environment where they've evolved that isn't

Andy Mant:

conducive to how they would function optimally.

Andy Mant:

You know, it's like, you know, it's like building

Andy Mant:

a car to ride on tarmac roads and then taking it

Andy Mant:

down a mountain. It's just not going to work. The

Andy Mant:

environment is very different. But what we're

Andy Mant:

doing in this day and age is we're bringing out

Andy Mant:

these technologies on this electromagnetic

Andy Mant:

spectrum that human bodies just aren't used to

Andy Mant:

receiving. And we're almost like this experiment

Andy Mant:

now of like, well, let's see what happens in the

Andy Mant:

next 30 years like we did with smoking. Let's see

Andy Mant:

what happens in the next 30 years like we did

Andy Mant:

with refined seed oils and low fat diets. And

Andy Mant:

it's only because, like LED artificial lighting

Andy Mant:

and the advent of smartphones and backlit LED

Andy Mant:

devices in the last 20 years that right now we're

Andy Mant:

starting to see the detrimental effects not just

Andy Mant:

on us as adults, but on our children as well.

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And they're getting their screens younger

Meredith Oke:

and younger and they're holding them closer and

Meredith Oke:

closer to their faces. I mean, I remember as a

Meredith Oke:

child, it's like you were like, you got to be six

Meredith Oke:

feet away from the tv. We're all like, why? No

Meredith Oke:

one had an answer. They're like, that's just the

Meredith Oke:

rule.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, I remember that.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Andy Mant:

Or you go blind, I think it was. Or get square

Andy Mant:

eyes.

Meredith Oke:

Square eyes. Maybe that's. That was an Australian

Meredith Oke:

thing. That's great. That's funny because. Yeah,

Meredith Oke:

now they, you know, like the. Yeah, they're so,

Meredith Oke:

Their little faces are so close up to them.

Meredith Oke:

Something that I love that you guys did is that

Meredith Oke:

you built, you know, and this was also out of

Meredith Oke:

necessity, I guess, but you really built the

Meredith Oke:

company on top of education and on top of

Meredith Oke:

teaching people about this. So I think it's

Meredith Oke:

really interesting because you've had such

Meredith Oke:

amazing growth. You know, even just to stay

Meredith Oke:

focused on the blue blocking glasses which I'm

Meredith Oke:

wearing, you know, and it's like people were

Meredith Oke:

ready for it, but at the same time, like I'm

Meredith Oke:

still outside of this circle. The only person I

Meredith Oke:

know who wears these, like when I go out in my

Meredith Oke:

normal life like and have meetings with, you

Meredith Oke:

know, I was on a committee at my children's

Meredith Oke:

school and we did zoom meetings at night through

Meredith Oke:

the winter and I rock up in these or go to. And

Meredith Oke:

they were like, what is that? What do you. Why?

Meredith Oke:

So I'm just curious like how you see that

Meredith Oke:

education trajectory playing out in the, in the

Meredith Oke:

public sphere as it's coming out of like the

Meredith Oke:

little biohacking corner that it's been in. It's

Meredith Oke:

growing, but there's still so much more room to

Meredith Oke:

go.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, there is absolutely. There's not enough

Katie Mant:

people talking about artificial blue light and

Katie Mant:

its impact on sleep. And I think there's a long

Katie Mant:

way still to go on that. You're right. It's how

Katie Mant:

we started the company. Because when we did come

Katie Mant:

out with the blue light blocking glasses that we

Katie Mant:

designed and launched, we, we had a massive

Katie Mant:

education piece to let people know that first of

Katie Mant:

all, blue light blocking glasses exist. They're a

Katie Mant:

thing. We had to let them know that artificial

Katie Mant:

blue light is bad after dark and it is impacting

Katie Mant:

your sleep. And then thirdly, had to educate them

Katie Mant:

on the actual wavelengths that they needed to

Katie Mant:

block. So it wasn't just a case of they could buy

Katie Mant:

any blue light blocking glasses. They needed

Katie Mant:

specific tints, specific lenses that would block

Katie Mant:

it. So that was kind of how our journey began.

Katie Mant:

Anyway, it was always education first because it

Katie Mant:

was such a young industry. And I even think it is

Katie Mant:

now, years on, more people are understanding how

Katie Mant:

it impacts sleep. But there is also that

Katie Mant:

reluctance for people to let go of technology. So

Katie Mant:

they don't want to sometimes believe that it's

Katie Mant:

impacting them. I do find that a little bit

Katie Mant:

because it's how we connect with everybody now,

Katie Mant:

right? The world is so digitalized, they don't

Katie Mant:

want to give up their smartphones, their laptops,

Katie Mant:

their tv. And there is still an element of

Katie Mant:

ignorance to the fact that it is impacting their

Katie Mant:

well being and their sleep. Then you have the

Katie Mant:

others that are ready to listen and ready to

Katie Mant:

understand and adopt principles like circadian

Katie Mant:

friendly lighting and artificial or blue light

Katie Mant:

blocking glasses to block artificial light after

Katie Mant:

dark. And then the others I think is going to

Katie Mant:

need more education and more and more touch

Katie Mant:

points. It's the classic principle, isn't it,

Katie Mant:

with marketing that they say you need at least 12

Katie Mant:

different touch points before someone can

Katie Mant:

understand something and absorb it. So there is

Katie Mant:

still the journey to be had. And also we're

Katie Mant:

battling against big tech brands. They don't want

Katie Mant:

people to sleep. You know, there's that famous

Katie Mant:

quote that supposedly, I don't know if it's true

Katie Mant:

or not, that came out from Netflix, where their

Katie Mant:

mission was to stop people going to sleep. And

Katie Mant:

that's why it's got that binge culture where they

Katie Mant:

want you to stay up and keep, basically keep

Katie Mant:

absorbing. Because the longer you're awake and

Katie Mant:

the more that you're on technology, the more

Katie Mant:

you're able to be marketed to and absorbed enough

Katie Mant:

for you to absorb more information from whatever

Katie Mant:

message is being pushed on whatever platform. So

Katie Mant:

there is a bigger piece at play here, really?

Katie Mant:

From, from my standpoint.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, I think, I think on top of that as well, it

Andy Mant:

was Netflix that said that sleep's their biggest

Andy Mant:

competitor.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, my God, Netflix.

Andy Mant:

I know. So that's not great from that standpoint.

Andy Mant:

But, you know, the thing is, to be able to reach

Andy Mant:

people, there's got to be a level of them wanting

Andy Mant:

to help themselves. Right. It's like fitness.

Andy Mant:

It's like healthy diets. These people aren't

Andy Mant:

going to be told by you, me, Katie and anyone

Andy Mant:

else that they need to wear blue light blocking

Andy Mant:

glasses after sunset or they're going to have,

Andy Mant:

you know, metabolic issues when they're older.

Andy Mant:

Because one, they look at it and go, well, I feel

Andy Mant:

like I'm sleeping. Okay. Two, you know, why would

Andy Mant:

I want to wear those silly glasses and not watch

Andy Mant:

all the colors on my favorite TV shows? And

Andy Mant:

they'd look at it and go, well, this is just

Andy Mant:

nonsense. The mainstream aren't talking about it,

Andy Mant:

so it's woo. But those are the things that sort

Andy Mant:

of come up with the masses. And you've got to,

Andy Mant:

you've got to want to change. And we've learned

Andy Mant:

over the years that, you know, we can educate and

Andy Mant:

we can put information out there that explains

Andy Mant:

the science, the evidence behind how these

Andy Mant:

devices will help you from a longevity and

Andy Mant:

wellbeing standpoint. But if you're not ready to

Andy Mant:

listen to that, then, you know, you're really

Andy Mant:

knocking your head against the brick wall, as

Andy Mant:

they, as they would say. I think one of the

Andy Mant:

pivotal moments of education moving forward is

Andy Mant:

probably aligning the brand with trustworthy

Andy Mant:

sources that are, I guess, in the mainstream

Andy Mant:

culture at the moment. So, like celebrities, for

Andy Mant:

instance, trying to get them on board and talking

Andy Mant:

about these issues because a lot of people that

Andy Mant:

perhaps aren't ready to be helped will look up to

Andy Mant:

what these idols are saying and be able to at

Andy Mant:

least start the conversation. Like the big one

Andy Mant:

is. There's a big guy in the uk, Simon Cowell.

Andy Mant:

People in the US know him, but he does all the,

Andy Mant:

like, oh yeah.

Meredith Oke:

He, he judges all the talent shows.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, the talent show, like American Idol, that

Andy Mant:

type of thing. But in the uk and he's now started

Andy Mant:

to wear red lens, blue light blocking glasses on

Andy Mant:

the shows because the lights are giving him

Andy Mant:

migraine headaches and disrupting his sleep. But

Andy Mant:

when he wore them, there was no publicity. He

Andy Mant:

came out to do that because he had any kind of

Andy Mant:

involvement in the company, but because he was

Andy Mant:

wearing them, the press, the media started

Andy Mant:

picking up articles on it. Well, why is he

Andy Mant:

wearing these glasses? And it starts the

Andy Mant:

conversation. And I think those are important

Andy Mant:

moments moving forward. If we want to allow

Andy Mant:

everyone to understand what the, I guess,

Andy Mant:

biological impact is on artificial light, on our

Andy Mant:

health and well being, these people at the top

Andy Mant:

need to start the conversations and then have

Andy Mant:

brands around them and educational hubs around

Andy Mant:

them that then continue that conversation, allow

Andy Mant:

it to make sense to people.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, that really makes sense. And I think that's

Meredith Oke:

true. I've been thinking a lot about how to what

Meredith Oke:

are the ingredients that we need to shift a

Meredith Oke:

paradigm? Because I think right now people are

Meredith Oke:

like, oh, all right, maybe I'll blue light,

Meredith Oke:

whatever. And they see it as a health tip, cold

Meredith Oke:

plunging or something. And it's, it's really to

Meredith Oke:

me much so much more fundamental than that. It's

Meredith Oke:

like if you get into why light matters so much

Meredith Oke:

and what, how our bodies really work it, it's a

Meredith Oke:

completely different way of looking at human

Meredith Oke:

health. And then once you look at human health

Meredith Oke:

differently, you look at the whole universe

Meredith Oke:

differently. So my like, big passion project is

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, so what are the elements required to

Meredith Oke:

make it a paradigm shift and not just a tactic?

Meredith Oke:

And I think the science obviously is an important

Meredith Oke:

piece. Like you need the scientific research,

Meredith Oke:

even though this is ancient, as you were saying,

Meredith Oke:

just how our bodies have worked since the dawn of

Meredith Oke:

time. But what I think is missing is the

Meredith Oke:

storytelling. I was listening to that podcast,

Meredith Oke:

the Telepathy Tapes. I don't know if that got

Meredith Oke:

popular in Australia, but it was. It's about how

Meredith Oke:

the many non verbal autistic children communicate

Meredith Oke:

with each other telepathically. And where am I

Meredith Oke:

going with this? Where I'm going with this is

Meredith Oke:

that there was a scientist who'd been studying

Meredith Oke:

that for years and years and nobody would really

Meredith Oke:

pay much attention to her. And this podcast, this

Meredith Oke:

documentary producer came along and Turned her,

Meredith Oke:

turned her work into a podcast and turned it into

Meredith Oke:

a story. And it one week on the podcast charts at

Meredith Oke:

Beat Joe Rogan, like it was downloaded like a

Meredith Oke:

bajillion times. And I was like, oh, we need the

Meredith Oke:

science needs storytellers. And I think like Andy

Meredith Oke:

and Katie, I think that's what you are. And then

Meredith Oke:

as you were saying, like the more, the more and

Meredith Oke:

the more famous ones we can get, great. But it's

Meredith Oke:

that it's telling the story in a way because then

Meredith Oke:

people can absorb it into their lives. Whereas

Meredith Oke:

just throwing studies at them doesn't land the

Meredith Oke:

same way.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, 100% right. You got to be able to talk

Andy Mant:

about, you need to be able to, you know, from our

Andy Mant:

point of view, understand the studies, read them

Andy Mant:

and then translate them into actionable sort of

Andy Mant:

items that people can then incorporate into their

Andy Mant:

day to day life. Rather than sort of saying, you

Andy Mant:

know, this study showed that, you know, the

Andy Mant:

statistical significance in this, that and the

Andy Mant:

other was whatever, like no one cares. Like,

Andy Mant:

let's be honest, it's, it's more, it's more like

Andy Mant:

saying, you know, there's a specific banding of

Andy Mant:

light, it's found in your laptops and your house

Andy Mant:

phones. It's going to disrupt your sleep. You've

Andy Mant:

got two options. Go and live in the middle of the

Andy Mant:

field and throw away your devices or wear red

Andy Mant:

lens blue light blocking glasses two to three

Andy Mant:

hours before bed before you start using them. And

Andy Mant:

I think it's sort of, when you were talking

Andy Mant:

there, another thing that sort of came to mind is

Andy Mant:

a lot of the audience that are into this type of

Andy Mant:

thing, whether it be blue light blocking glasses,

Andy Mant:

whether it be red light therapy, whether it be

Andy Mant:

cold plungers, whatever the holistic protocol may

Andy Mant:

be is they're already sick, right? They've been

Andy Mant:

sick, they've had health issues themselves and

Andy Mant:

they know what it feels like to number one, be

Andy Mant:

failed by the institution, big pharma, whatever

Andy Mant:

it may be. But they also understand what it

Andy Mant:

feels, feels like to not be healthy. And they,

Andy Mant:

they use those two things in combination, those

Andy Mant:

two failures to then look at alternatives within,

Andy Mant:

you know, holistic medicine, well being, maybe

Andy Mant:

ancestral practices to really, really get their

Andy Mant:

health back on track as almost a last resort.

Andy Mant:

Sometimes they've tried everything else,

Andy Mant:

everything else has failed. And then when they

Andy Mant:

start doing these basic easy to incorporate

Andy Mant:

holistic measures like grounding outside,

Andy Mant:

barefoot, watching the sun rise, wearing blue

Andy Mant:

light blockers before bed, maybe having a cold

Andy Mant:

plunge if they've got arthritis, things like

Andy Mant:

that, maybe they're doing red light Therapy,

Andy Mant:

really easy protocols. They soon realize that

Andy Mant:

being healthy isn't very complicated at all. And

Andy Mant:

it's actually quite easy to do if you're prepared

Andy Mant:

to change your life very dramatically from what

Andy Mant:

you've been told and how to be told to live your

Andy Mant:

life. And living your life closer to as close as

Andy Mant:

you can to nature and as close as you can to how

Andy Mant:

we lived ancestrally has profound effects on

Andy Mant:

one's well being and getting healthy and, or, you

Andy Mant:

know, even maintaining health. But the big thing

Andy Mant:

for, for us is we want to be able to reach people

Andy Mant:

before they get sick. You know, it's great to

Andy Mant:

help people recover and great to help people

Andy Mant:

live, you know, a more fulfilling, healthy life

Andy Mant:

by these, you know, ancient protocols. But how do

Andy Mant:

we reach the people that are healthy already or

Andy Mant:

the ones that are starting to go down the

Andy Mant:

slippery slope of you're not going to be well in

Andy Mant:

10 to 20 years time because you're eating refined

Andy Mant:

seed oils, you're not exercising, you're not

Andy Mant:

lifting weights, you're eating a very refined

Andy Mant:

processed diet, you're not blocking blue light

Andy Mant:

after dark, you're not outside enough. How do you

Andy Mant:

then tell those people that, well, in 20 you

Andy Mant:

might feel great now, but in 10 to 15, 20 years

Andy Mant:

you're going to feel like the other people that

Andy Mant:

are with us now that are healing from, you know,

Andy Mant:

lifelong issues caused by, you know, eating badly

Andy Mant:

or not managing that blue light. I guess what I'm

Andy Mant:

saying is here that the people that are well now,

Andy Mant:

it's like eating a, eating McDonald's every day

Andy Mant:

when you're 16 until you're 20, you're not going

Andy Mant:

to notice really much difference at all. You'll

Andy Mant:

be all right. You'll probably be a bit

Andy Mant:

overweight, but maybe you exercise a bit as well.

Andy Mant:

But if you continue to eat like that for 20

Andy Mant:

years, you're going to have major metabolic

Andy Mant:

syndrome and major metabolic issues. And the same

Andy Mant:

is true with light. You know, people go, well,

Andy Mant:

I'm falling asleep. Fine. Okay, great. Well,

Andy Mant:

how's the quality of this sleep? Are you tracking

Andy Mant:

it on a whoop or an aura or another tracking

Andy Mant:

device? No. How do you know if your REM and deep

Andy Mant:

sleep are good? Because it doesn't matter if

Andy Mant:

you're sleeping well, falling asleep fast, if

Andy Mant:

you're not getting the restorative deep and REM

Andy Mant:

sleep that your body needs to recover and clear

Andy Mant:

out the dead and dying damaged cells over time,

Andy Mant:

that's going to have a compounding impact on your

Andy Mant:

health and well being.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, it's so true. And and it's like I. So often

Meredith Oke:

I hear people and they're like, oh, okay, all

Meredith Oke:

right, I'm gonna get healthy. And they're like,

Meredith Oke:

I'll just. And they're like, and they're. I. And

Meredith Oke:

what they think that means, it never includes

Meredith Oke:

light and it often includes taking supplements

Meredith Oke:

and eating vegan.

Katie Mant:

Okay, we see that too much. I know, I think

Katie Mant:

that's, that's the default setting for getting

Katie Mant:

healthy, isn't it? Or they go the other route and

Katie Mant:

they take on too much. They try to take on all

Katie Mant:

these different practices, do an ice bath every

Katie Mant:

morning, go for, you know, 20 kilometer runs. And

Katie Mant:

they take on so much that they actually can't do

Katie Mant:

it day to day. It becomes, it becomes too much,

Katie Mant:

it's not sustainable. And then they give up and

Katie Mant:

they go, nah, being well, it's too hard or

Katie Mant:

looking after my well being, it takes too much

Katie Mant:

out of my time. I'm not feeling that I am unwell

Katie Mant:

right now, so I'll just carry on as I am. And

Katie Mant:

that's the message that we're trying to put out

Katie Mant:

there as well. It's not complicated. It's just a

Katie Mant:

few, few simple tweaks, A lot of them free as

Katie Mant:

well. You don't have to invest in these big

Katie Mant:

expensive products. Some of them are just getting

Katie Mant:

out into the sun in the morning or changing a

Katie Mant:

bulb, switching one bulb out and putting it

Katie Mant:

circadian friendly bulb in the lamp that you're

Katie Mant:

sitting in the evening. They're simple things,

Katie Mant:

but they really do change their well being.

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And I love, I try to hammer that message all

Meredith Oke:

the time. Like it doesn't have to be complicated.

Meredith Oke:

And small little things, especially when it comes

Meredith Oke:

to light, make a huge difference. Like just

Meredith Oke:

throwing on those glasses, going outside in the

Meredith Oke:

morning. Like, yeah, it doesn't need to be a

Meredith Oke:

major life overhaul. It makes such a difference.

Meredith Oke:

And I have, you know, over the, over the years,

Meredith Oke:

like I have yet to meet anybody who, who started

Meredith Oke:

wearing blue blockers and didn't notice a

Meredith Oke:

difference. Like I have friends who are like,

Meredith Oke:

who, you know, they're like, they're like, oh

Meredith Oke:

right, I guess, like should, I really should get

Meredith Oke:

them. I'm like, yeah, you really should. And then

Meredith Oke:

they like the next day they're like, oh my God, I

Meredith Oke:

slept so much better like that night.

Andy Mant:

That's the thing. It's crazy. And it's like, it's

Andy Mant:

like this, like this whole biohacking, this whole

Andy Mant:

sort of quantum science when people want to try

Andy Mant:

and holistically get healthy. Right. It's Very

Andy Mant:

much a spectrum. You could be at the beginning of

Andy Mant:

it, you could be at the end of it and be the

Andy Mant:

ultra biohacker like Brian Johnson, Dave Asprey,

Andy Mant:

people like that. But it's fine for an individual

Andy Mant:

to be anywhere along there on their journey. And

Andy Mant:

the big thing is where I would start off is I

Andy Mant:

would look at it from a point of view of what

Andy Mant:

would I like to improve in my life? And that's

Andy Mant:

what we did. That's how we founded the company.

Andy Mant:

We looked at our sleep and said, how do we

Andy Mant:

improve this? And what can I do that isn't

Andy Mant:

conventional to improve my sleep? Okay, so maybe

Andy Mant:

someone says, my sleep's not great. Okay, well,

Andy Mant:

wear blue light blocking glasses two to three

Andy Mant:

hours before bed and watch the sun rise and your

Andy Mant:

sleep will improve. Someone could say, I've had

Andy Mant:

arthritis for years. What could I do that isn't

Andy Mant:

conventional? To help? Maybe I'm going to have an

Andy Mant:

ice bath once a day. I'm going to get in there

Andy Mant:

and have an ice bath and feel amazing. Maybe I'm

Andy Mant:

going to try red light therapy to help with, with

Andy Mant:

it. Maybe someone suffers from migraine

Andy Mant:

headaches, so they change the flickering LED

Andy Mant:

light bulbs in some of their house lights and

Andy Mant:

wear light sensitivity glasses when they're

Andy Mant:

working on a computer. You know, it's kind of

Andy Mant:

looking at your, looking at your current life and

Andy Mant:

going, am I optimal? And the answer is always

Andy Mant:

going to be no. Right? No one's going to get to

Andy Mant:

that 100%. It's just impossible in the world we

Andy Mant:

live in. But where would you put yourself out of

Andy Mant:

10? You know, how do you feel in the mornings?

Andy Mant:

How do you feel during the day? Are, are you

Andy Mant:

crashing at 3:00pm? You know, are you struggling

Andy Mant:

to get to sleep? Little things like that. Pick

Andy Mant:

one that's a nuance in your life and go, how can

Andy Mant:

I holistically do something to make myself feel

Andy Mant:

better? And just try it, because you're not going

Andy Mant:

to lose either way. It's not as though you're

Andy Mant:

taking a medication, a pill that may have some

Andy Mant:

profound and unwanted side effects. You're only

Andy Mant:

going to try these things and go, oh, you know

Andy Mant:

what, that worked for me. Or you know what? Cold

Andy Mant:

plungers aren't for me. I, I literally, my body

Andy Mant:

cannot get into an ice bath or something like

Andy Mant:

that. So maybe I'll look at red light therapy

Andy Mant:

instead for my joints. So it's kind of looking at

Andy Mant:

it like that. And I think a lot of people like

Andy Mant:

what Katie was alluding to in alternative health

Andy Mant:

Biohacking well, being quantum science, I think

Andy Mant:

they bite off more than they can chew too

Andy Mant:

quickly. They go full. I don't do anything to

Andy Mant:

full Dave Asprey in like a day. And it's just

Andy Mant:

because you've got to have 150 supplements and

Andy Mant:

you know, 400 hours of red light therapy a day,

Andy Mant:

which just isn't practical. But there's so many

Andy Mant:

cool things people can do just to like make those

Andy Mant:

little incremental 1% improvements and it will

Andy Mant:

compound over time. It's like investing money.

Andy Mant:

Right. If you do 1% more every week, you know,

Andy Mant:

in, in two years you're going to be up at the

Andy Mant:

Dave Aspirate sort of level. Or you may go in two

Andy Mant:

years. You know what? I'm fine at 20% because I

Andy Mant:

feel great. And that's all the time in my life

Andy Mant:

that allows for it. Because, you know, rather

Andy Mant:

than biohacking 24 hours a day and sleeping, I

Andy Mant:

wouldn't mind playing with the kids or the

Andy Mant:

grandkids or you know, going out for a dinner

Andy Mant:

with friends and stuff like that, which is all

Andy Mant:

fine to do. Have that odd glass of wine if that's

Andy Mant:

what some something you want to do. Life is still

Andy Mant:

there to be lived and biohacking just needs to be

Andy Mant:

incorporated into it to just optimize that time

Andy Mant:

you've got on this planet. So we're aging well.

Andy Mant:

We're not, you know, adding 10 years of, you

Andy Mant:

know, I'm going to be sat in a nursing home for

Andy Mant:

an extra 10 years. Brilliant. That was kind of

Andy Mant:

not worth the extra 10 years I did biohacking.

Andy Mant:

You're not, you're going to be living the way

Andy Mant:

we're living now, into old age and living well

Andy Mant:

and being mobile. And that's what biohacking does

Andy Mant:

for you.

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And it's, it's, yeah, it's, I think that

Meredith Oke:

term reverse aging has come up right where it's

Meredith Oke:

like the, the chronology rolls on. You know,

Meredith Oke:

we're not going to not get older. But yeah, our

Meredith Oke:

bodies don't have to decay in the, in the way

Meredith Oke:

that we thought they did and we don't have to be

Meredith Oke:

these crazy biohackers in order to support the

Meredith Oke:

process. There's so many things to do and it's,

Meredith Oke:

I've been seeing lately, you know, I think, I

Meredith Oke:

mean, I think everyone should do whatever they

Meredith Oke:

want. I don't care. But, but these gurus who do

Meredith Oke:

all the things right, they, people get turned off

Meredith Oke:

and they're like, I'm not doing that, like all

Meredith Oke:

this health stuff is nuts. And I saw, I saw a

Meredith Oke:

post recently from a young woman, I think she

Meredith Oke:

works like in Silicon Valley or something. And

Meredith Oke:

she was like, all right, listen, I talked to one

Meredith Oke:

of those health people and I guess they're not

Meredith Oke:

all crazy because I've been like turning off my

Meredith Oke:

TV and going for more walks. And I don't know,

Meredith Oke:

she had a few things that she did which are all

Meredith Oke:

really good. Basically she's like, and you know

Meredith Oke:

what? I actually feel a lot better. She was sort

Meredith Oke:

of like begrudgingly acknowledging that the

Meredith Oke:

health freaks maybe have a point on something.

Meredith Oke:

But that's what I loved is that you don't, you

Meredith Oke:

know, you don't have to be crazy. My friend Kelly

Meredith Oke:

Ritter did a post recently. She called it like

Meredith Oke:

barefoot and bougie. And she was like, you don't

Meredith Oke:

have to be like an outdoorsman or like an

Meredith Oke:

outdoorsy person, like living off the land to

Meredith Oke:

benefit from, from this. Like, just take your

Meredith Oke:

shoes off sometimes and still like have whatever

Meredith Oke:

kind of life you want.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, that's super important, you know, and

Andy Mant:

that's, that makes it relatable, makes it easier

Andy Mant:

for people to comprehend that, you know, you

Andy Mant:

don't have to be a mad scientist and you know,

Andy Mant:

obsessive to be able to get healthy. And you

Andy Mant:

know, that's, that's super important. And you

Andy Mant:

know, I think another topic that's, that's well

Andy Mant:

worth sort of covering as well is a little bit

Andy Mant:

about red light therapy as well. We're starting

Andy Mant:

to see, you know, light can be used for so many

Andy Mant:

different things. Like, like blue lights, great

Andy Mant:

to keep you alert. Blocking it helps you sleep.

Andy Mant:

Green light shown in studies to help with

Andy Mant:

migraines and the symptoms of migraines it seems,

Andy Mant:

which is, which is fascinating. But red light has

Andy Mant:

been been shown and the most studied frequency of

Andy Mant:

light to have a profound effect on all sorts of

Andy Mant:

different situations like you know, from skin

Andy Mant:

appearance to joint and muscle pain to weight

Andy Mant:

loss to sort of skin conditions like eczema,

Andy Mant:

psoriasis, sleep. You know, it's, it's, it's

Andy Mant:

absolutely fascinating. And one of our top

Andy Mant:

selling products in, in red light therapy and our

Andy Mant:

most top selling product is our red light face

Andy Mant:

mask. So interesting, like it's utilizing visible

Andy Mant:

red light at 630 nanometers, the most studied for

Andy Mant:

reducing the signs of aging and near infrared

Andy Mant:

light as well. And that's been incredible for

Andy Mant:

tens of thousands of people in terms of how they

Andy Mant:

look physically. Yes, that might not be a health

Andy Mant:

benefit, but it's a mental health benefit on

Andy Mant:

aging. You Know, the face sure is. You know what

Andy Mant:

I mean?

Meredith Oke:

Yeah.

Andy Mant:

Katie's a great. She uses the red light face mask

Andy Mant:

like three to four times a week. So maybe you

Andy Mant:

could talk to the effects that you've seen.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, and I wanted to bring that up because we

Meredith Oke:

actually haven't really covered. I'm always

Meredith Oke:

wanting people to sleep better and feel better.

Meredith Oke:

And I was like, you know, we actually haven't

Meredith Oke:

talked about how all this makes you look better.

Meredith Oke:

And I'm not gonna pretend that doesn't matter to

Meredith Oke:

all of us. So. Yeah, Katie, tell us, you know,

Meredith Oke:

tell us how like, like red light can make my.

Meredith Oke:

Make me look younger.

Katie Mant:

Yeah. Really, there's no shame in saying how we

Katie Mant:

look matters to us. It does. Like Andy said, it's

Katie Mant:

your mental well being. You know, when you wake

Katie Mant:

up in the morning and you look in the mirror, do

Katie Mant:

you see the person that you feel? And if you

Katie Mant:

don't, there's a disconnect. And that does play a

Katie Mant:

role on a lot of people's well being. And it's

Katie Mant:

been something I've had to challenge as I left

Katie Mant:

late 30s and moved into 40 the other month. It's

Katie Mant:

a big transition and you feel a lot younger

Katie Mant:

inside than how you look. But equally don't want

Katie Mant:

to go down the route of doing other procedures

Katie Mant:

that maybe aren't very holistic or, you know, I

Katie Mant:

want to sort of stay with within modalities that

Katie Mant:

are going to be okay for my well being long term

Katie Mant:

as well. And red light therapy has been fantastic

Katie Mant:

for that because like Andy said, there's two

Katie Mant:

frequencies, the near infrared and the red. The

Katie Mant:

red light, that's the color that you see, that

Katie Mant:

has all of your surface level concerns. So any

Katie Mant:

fine lines, wrinkles, sort of any imperfections,

Katie Mant:

any discoloration, your skin tone and texture,

Katie Mant:

it's great for that overall surface level

Katie Mant:

appearance. But what near infrared does, and this

Katie Mant:

is the big one, that really helps with the anti

Katie Mant:

aging properties. Near infrared goes right

Katie Mant:

through to your muscles and through down to your

Katie Mant:

joints. And it is so, so good at relaxing the

Katie Mant:

muscles. So if you think about relax a muscle,

Katie Mant:

what that does to the skin, it then relaxes the

Katie Mant:

skin, which then smooths it out, which is then

Katie Mant:

reducing the appearance of fine lines and

Katie Mant:

wrinkles further. So just by relaxing the muscle

Katie Mant:

itself, it can have an effect visually on the

Katie Mant:

surface level appearance of your skin. Because

Katie Mant:

there's other procedures out there that are all

Katie Mant:

tailored around relaxing muscles. We know what

Katie Mant:

those are, those injectables. It's the principle

Katie Mant:

of just stopping the muscle getting so tight.

Katie Mant:

Because when it gets tight it's pulling on the

Katie Mant:

skin and creating those creases. But you can do

Katie Mant:

that holistically with red light therapy, just

Katie Mant:

relaxing it and doing things like gua sha, you

Katie Mant:

know, just to sort of keep that muscle relaxed

Katie Mant:

and then your skin will follow suit, it won't be

Katie Mant:

so crinkled up which will then reduce the

Katie Mant:

appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. Again,

Katie Mant:

it's a very simple principle, but I think a lot

Katie Mant:

of people don't realize that near infrared does

Katie Mant:

that and then have to in their eyes resort to

Katie Mant:

some maybe injectables and things that possibly

Katie Mant:

aren't suitable long term for the, for their well

Katie Mant:

being. So Nia and Fred is a great alternative for

Katie Mant:

that.

Meredith Oke:

Yes. And it's really like what we were saying

Meredith Oke:

earlier. I've been thinking about this lately,

Meredith Oke:

like the difference between reverse aging and

Meredith Oke:

anti aging. Right. And where you do when you do

Meredith Oke:

chemicals or you inject things or you do

Meredith Oke:

surgeries and it's like you're fighting your body

Meredith Oke:

and it's going to wear off and it's really

Meredith Oke:

expensive and then you got to go into it again

Meredith Oke:

and whereas when we utilize light therapy,

Meredith Oke:

phototherapy, when we harmonize our body and like

Meredith Oke:

everything you just said, relaxing the muscles

Meredith Oke:

naturally were the benefits are compounding over

Meredith Oke:

time. Like our bodies are getting healthier and

Meredith Oke:

better and we look better but underneath like

Meredith Oke:

we're not, we're not adding chemicals and trying

Meredith Oke:

to change ourselves.

Katie Mant:

Exactly that. And it's exactly that not changing

Katie Mant:

yourself. You're not wanting to look like a

Katie Mant:

different person. If you go and have certain

Katie Mant:

procedures done, you might look like a different

Katie Mant:

person. It doesn't even look like you when you

Katie Mant:

were younger. It is a completely different

Katie Mant:

whereas. What?

Meredith Oke:

It's weird.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, right, it is. And a lot of us just want to

Katie Mant:

look fresh and like we've slept and you know that

Katie Mant:

the effects of time haven't taken its toll on our

Katie Mant:

appearance and we just want to look in the mirror

Katie Mant:

and see reflected back at us who we feel inside.

Katie Mant:

So. And it's actually quite confronting. I've

Katie Mant:

heard some, you know, quite sort of challenging

Katie Mant:

stories from, from people that have gone under

Katie Mant:

procedures and then it's actually had a worse

Katie Mant:

effect on their well being because yes, they

Katie Mant:

might look younger but they no longer identify

Katie Mant:

with a person that's looking back because it's

Katie Mant:

completely changed the structure and it doesn't

Katie Mant:

look like them anymore. So yes, they might have

Katie Mant:

reduced fine lines and wrinkles and you know,

Katie Mant:

might look a bit younger. It's not how they

Katie Mant:

looked when they were younger. And therefore it's

Katie Mant:

still that disconnect. And it's always that

Katie Mant:

disconnect. It doesn't feel authentic. And then

Katie Mant:

when you don't feel authentic, you don't feel

Katie Mant:

true to yourself. And that just impacts so many

Katie Mant:

different areas of your life. And there is so

Katie Mant:

much you can do holistically now for not just

Katie Mant:

your well being but, but beauty as well. You

Katie Mant:

know, just, just skincare products themselves,

Katie Mant:

just checking the ingredients in them. You know,

Katie Mant:

some of those aren't great for, for the body, you

Katie Mant:

know, toxins that are in them and the overload

Katie Mant:

that's going on on the skin. But you know, I

Katie Mant:

question sometimes whether some products actually

Katie Mant:

contribute to aging.

Meredith Oke:

I don't know.

Katie Mant:

That's not something I've had proven. But it's

Katie Mant:

things that play in the back of your mind. You

Katie Mant:

know, it's a bit like the medical industry. You

Katie Mant:

know, they, they want you to keep taking

Katie Mant:

medication. You know, it'll have a little bit of

Katie Mant:

an impact to make you feel better, but you need

Katie Mant:

to keep taking it in order for it to, to have

Katie Mant:

long term effects.

Meredith Oke:

And yeah, they want us medicated in front of

Meredith Oke:

Netflix.

Katie Mant:

Yeah. Lathering on skincare products that we

Katie Mant:

think are making us look younger, but actually

Katie Mant:

it's aging us.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. And then going to get Botox because we're

Meredith Oke:

all, we look wrecked.

Katie Mant:

Yeah, absolutely. There is a better way. Yeah,

Katie Mant:

there is, there is. And there's freeways just,

Katie Mant:

you know, getting out into the morning sun,

Katie Mant:

morning sunrise and sunset. That's the best time

Katie Mant:

to be out. You know, even if you're not going to

Katie Mant:

go and do red light therapy with the panels, at

Katie Mant:

least get the beneficial frequencies in the sun

Katie Mant:

naturally outside of the peak UV periods for your

Katie Mant:

skin. That's great as well. The morning morning

Katie Mant:

sun and evening sun.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. There's so much we can do. And I liked what

Meredith Oke:

you said too, you know, about the authenticity

Meredith Oke:

piece. Because what I have found is, you know,

Meredith Oke:

taking this route that we're talking about where

Meredith Oke:

we learn to understand how our bodies really work

Meredith Oke:

and to support that. It makes you feel happier,

Meredith Oke:

it makes you feel more powerful. It makes you

Meredith Oke:

feel like, oh, you know what, I belong on this

Meredith Oke:

planet. I'm not just like spinning out through

Meredith Oke:

some weird like pre, pre made synthetic reality

Meredith Oke:

that I'm just gonna hobble through until I get

Meredith Oke:

sick and die. Like it, I think it, you know, I,

Meredith Oke:

there's a spiritual element to stepping outside,

Meredith Oke:

you know, and as you were saying, like wanting to

Meredith Oke:

understand sunlight and darkness cycles and

Meredith Oke:

Support our lives, lives that way and wean off

Meredith Oke:

technology, especially at night. It's like there

Meredith Oke:

are not a lot of forces that are supportive of

Meredith Oke:

that. They're working against us. And so but when

Meredith Oke:

we connect with it, it's like, oh, this is what

Meredith Oke:

it's supposed to feel like to be alive.

Katie Mant:

It's very true. It's very true. And there's

Katie Mant:

nothing wrong with the modern world. There isn't,

Katie Mant:

you know, blessed to be in a time where, you

Katie Mant:

know, technology and advancements in anything in

Katie Mant:

the world are happening at such a rapid rate and

Katie Mant:

we're to see that, you know, that's great. We

Katie Mant:

shouldn't take away from that. It's just not

Katie Mant:

letting it overrun us. Remembering where we have

Katie Mant:

come from and the short time that we have been as

Katie Mant:

humans on the planet and making sure we blend the

Katie Mant:

both and use the little hacks that are available

Katie Mant:

to us to live in the modern world while still

Katie Mant:

kind of remembering where we've come from and who

Katie Mant:

we are at the core. And I think there's, there's

Katie Mant:

the opportunity to have both. There really is,

Katie Mant:

you know, otherwise we'd be advocating not having

Katie Mant:

smartphones, not having TVs, not having laptops

Katie Mant:

and disconnecting from everything. We don't

Katie Mant:

advocate that. They're fantastic. We're able to

Katie Mant:

have this conversation now for the very reason

Katie Mant:

this technology here. We're just advocates for

Katie Mant:

the glasses that you're wearing to protect you

Katie Mant:

whilst you're on the call to us. So there isn't,

Katie Mant:

it doesn't need to be a fee mongering thing where

Katie Mant:

it's like forget everything in the modern world.

Katie Mant:

It's just using it with intent, not being

Katie Mant:

consumed by it. You know, picking the moments in

Katie Mant:

your day where you are on social media and maybe

Katie Mant:

disconnecting the rest of the time and then just

Katie Mant:

making sure you're looking after your well being

Katie Mant:

whilst you're in the modern, the modern world.

Katie Mant:

And it really is as simple as that from my, from

Katie Mant:

my standpoint anyway.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I like the modern

Meredith Oke:

world. Yeah, I like living on the grid. I have no

Meredith Oke:

plans to leave. Okay. So I mentioned earlier at

Meredith Oke:

my, at my family dinner tonight, I told my

Meredith Oke:

children, I'm like, oh, I'm interviewing the

Meredith Oke:

founders of Boncharge tonight. So they all, we

Meredith Oke:

have lots of on charge stuff in our house. So

Meredith Oke:

they were all, they all knew what that, knew what

Meredith Oke:

that was. So I made them all come up with a

Meredith Oke:

question for you. So while we're on the red

Meredith Oke:

light, I'll start with My older daughter, who she

Meredith Oke:

just finished her first year at university and at

Meredith Oke:

Christmas I let her bring the Bon Charge sauna

Meredith Oke:

blanket back to school with her. And her friends

Meredith Oke:

were like, what is that? It's weird. And then

Meredith Oke:

they all wanted to borrow it. But she said she,

Meredith Oke:

she started going to the gym a lot more than she

Meredith Oke:

used to and she would come back all shaky and she

Meredith Oke:

would, especially on, on leg days. This is, yeah,

Meredith Oke:

this is what she was saying at dinner. But then

Meredith Oke:

she would put the sauna blanket around and she

Meredith Oke:

said it, she would feel so much better. Better.

Meredith Oke:

So she wanted to know why.

Andy Mant:

Yeah, absolutely. No, it's a great question. And

Andy Mant:

it comes all comes down to recovery and how light

Andy Mant:

can be used to penetrate deep within to the

Andy Mant:

muscles. So when she's been in the gym, you know,

Andy Mant:

she's a female, she's going to be working her

Andy Mant:

lower body constantly. Like that's just how

Andy Mant:

females do it. Like guys work up the work on the

Andy Mant:

chest, the girls work on the legs and the glutes.

Andy Mant:

So she's had a hard day in the gym and she's had

Andy Mant:

a good session. She's going to have all that

Andy Mant:

energy sapped out of the muscle. You know,

Andy Mant:

they're going to be. She would have pushed them

Andy Mant:

to the point of, you know, failure so she can

Andy Mant:

grow those muscles which leaves them feeling

Andy Mant:

wobbly and jelly like after, after an intense

Andy Mant:

session. So the way infrared sauna works is

Andy Mant:

different from red light therapy. So it's not

Andy Mant:

near infrared and it's not red light, it's far

Andy Mant:

infrared light. So it's used for heating

Andy Mant:

purposes. Now when you go into a normal sauna,

Andy Mant:

like a cold sauna, it heats the air around you,

Andy Mant:

so it just sort of heats the outer part of the

Andy Mant:

body. Whereas what the far infrared light does,

Andy Mant:

it penetrates deep into the muscles and starts to

Andy Mant:

heat within the muscles. It starts to raise the

Andy Mant:

temperature internally. And what studies have

Andy Mant:

shown is that when we apply heat, not cold, after

Andy Mant:

we work out, that enables the muscles to start

Andy Mant:

relaxing, more energy to be produced in the

Andy Mant:

muscular system. And when there's more energy

Andy Mant:

produced in that system, we start to recover

Andy Mant:

faster. And as a result, those shakes will stop a

Andy Mant:

lot quicker because we're warming those muscles,

Andy Mant:

providing more energy for them to heal quickly.

Andy Mant:

And she'll come out of that sauna blanket and

Andy Mant:

just, yeah, feel like she can walk again

Andy Mant:

normally, which is something that wouldn't have

Andy Mant:

happened that quickly without utilizing far

Andy Mant:

infrared light for that sort of internal heating

Andy Mant:

process of the muscle.

Meredith Oke:

Cool. Thank you. Okay. There's that's the clip

Meredith Oke:

for Millie. All right. So then my younger, my

Meredith Oke:

youngest, her question was, how do you get the

Meredith Oke:

orange glasses? Orange?

Katie Mant:

Oh, it's quite a process, actually. Actually

Katie Mant:

takes about a few hours per lens. It's basically

Katie Mant:

just keep it brief. It's a constant dying. So it

Katie Mant:

goes in and out of a. Of a bath, I guess you

Katie Mant:

could call it, of dye, and it sits within there

Katie Mant:

for, say, 30 minutes. You pull it out, rinse it,

Katie Mant:

and it just keeps getting repeated until it gets

Katie Mant:

to the potency that that's needed. But

Katie Mant:

ultimately, it is a sort of a dye that takes

Katie Mant:

place in a little bath. It's quite a cute process.

Andy Mant:

But you don't just have one bath for one pair.

Andy Mant:

Our lab has, like, multiple baths with multiple

Andy Mant:

glass lenses in there.

Meredith Oke:

So the lenses go in the back bath?

Andy Mant:

Yes. Yeah, they go in the tint bath and then

Andy Mant:

they. They cook in there for probably about two

Andy Mant:

to three hours. Then they come out and then they

Andy Mant:

go into a spectrometer. So the spectrometer tests

Andy Mant:

the frequencies of light that pass through the

Andy Mant:

lenses and the ones that don't. So if we pull it

Andy Mant:

out and we aim for 100% light blocking from 400

Andy Mant:

to 550 nanometers, which is the. The melatonin

Andy Mant:

disruption zone, according to the science. And if

Andy Mant:

it's at 98% or 99%, goes back in the bath for a

Andy Mant:

few extra minutes to cook a bit more, then it

Andy Mant:

goes back and it's tested. But 99% of the time,

Andy Mant:

we know the exact time that each lens needs to be

Andy Mant:

within the tint bath to achieve the 100% blocking

Andy Mant:

between those frequencies. So, yeah, they have a

Andy Mant:

lovely warm bath in a lovely solution, and then

Andy Mant:

they come out looking like yours.

Meredith Oke:

That's so funny. That's a good question, Twyla. I

Meredith Oke:

didn't actually know that. So it's like the clear

Meredith Oke:

glass absorbs the color and then depending on how

Meredith Oke:

long you leave it in, all the way up to 100%.

Andy Mant:

Yes. And if you leave it in for like an hour, it

Andy Mant:

would look like paler orange all the way up. If

Andy Mant:

you left it in for, like 10 hours, it would be

Andy Mant:

bright red and you wouldn't see anything red. But

Andy Mant:

you have to time it just right. It takes a lot of

Andy Mant:

experimentation, but we managed to have the

Andy Mant:

recipe. Now that works really well. And the tin

Andy Mant:

is developed in partnership with our lab partner

Andy Mant:

as well. So it's proprietary to our glasses,

Andy Mant:

which is really good.

Meredith Oke:

That is so cool. Okay, that was a good one. I

Meredith Oke:

didn't know That I love thinking of all the

Meredith Oke:

little lenses in there.

Katie Mant:

I like it.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah. Well, you know, I should get a little bit.

Meredith Oke:

Get the 11 year old to do the podcast questions

Meredith Oke:

going forward. So my son, he succeed. He, he

Meredith Oke:

didn't have a question, but he wanted to say

Meredith Oke:

thank you for using. I don't even know what,

Meredith Oke:

remember what they're called. But the thing that

Meredith Oke:

plugs in, he's like, that's the. He liked it was

Meredith Oke:

the kind that you can use and that it plugs into

Meredith Oke:

anything. You know what I'm talking about? Like

Meredith Oke:

where you go to charge it. What's the little

Meredith Oke:

piece that sticks in called?

Katie Mant:

Oh, for. On the phones, like the. Is that what

Katie Mant:

you. Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

Or on the, on the night lights. We have all the

Meredith Oke:

little clip on night lights.

Katie Mant:

Oh, yes. Yes.

Meredith Oke:

That you would plug in to charge them. Yes, that

Meredith Oke:

you can see how technical I am. Right? The thing

Meredith Oke:

that plugs in to charge it.

Katie Mant:

Okay.

Meredith Oke:

He was happy because he could use any plug and it

Meredith Oke:

charges.

Andy Mant:

Yeah.

Meredith Oke:

That was his feedback. That's all I got.

Katie Mant:

Nice. I'm glad. Yeah. Again, look at him spotting

Katie Mant:

all these little things.

Meredith Oke:

I said, are you sure you don't want me to double

Meredith Oke:

check that I'm not overreacting, making you wear

Meredith Oke:

orange glasses and make your turn your screen red

Meredith Oke:

all the time? He's like, no, I believe you. I

Meredith Oke:

actually noticed a difference, Mom. Like, okay.

Meredith Oke:

And then Twyla also wanted to know where you got

Meredith Oke:

the name Bon Charge.

Katie Mant:

Oh, do you know what? That took what, a year to

Katie Mant:

18 months? That was a mission. That was an

Katie Mant:

absolute mission. Because we wanted a name that

Katie Mant:

reflected the products that we currently had, but

Katie Mant:

also the vision of where we're going as well. So

Katie Mant:

it all comes down basically. Bon Charge means

Katie Mant:

good energy. So we're principled around the fact

Katie Mant:

that we harness the good energies of nature and

Katie Mant:

then try and block the bad energies of the modern

Katie Mant:

day world. So it was all about good energy. But

Katie Mant:

it was just a lot of brainstorming, a lot of

Katie Mant:

troubleshooting to find a name that, that worked.

Katie Mant:

So. Yeah, nothing glamorous really. It was just

Katie Mant:

me and Andy bouncing names around until we found

Katie Mant:

one that worked. So I wish there was a more

Katie Mant:

polished story.

Meredith Oke:

No, that's a great, I mean, good energy. That's,

Meredith Oke:

that's a good. And it is, it's a cute little

Meredith Oke:

like, it's a good name. It's a good.

Katie Mant:

I'm glad you like it.

Meredith Oke:

You did a good job. Yeah, it lands. And it's

Meredith Oke:

funny because whenever I work with, you know,

Meredith Oke:

people who, you know, like my podcast producer or

Meredith Oke:

technical people who don't really know anything

Meredith Oke:

about the content of what I do. They're just

Meredith Oke:

there to help me. A few. A few months in of

Meredith Oke:

listening to all of my. The interviews that I do

Meredith Oke:

and pros, you know, editing all my stuff, they're

Meredith Oke:

like, okay, send me a link for the blue for those

Meredith Oke:

glasses. So I remember I said, my podcast

Meredith Oke:

producer, she. She wrote me back. She's like,

Meredith Oke:

they're not cute. And I was like, okay, try. Try

Meredith Oke:

this one. And I sent her Bon Charge. She was the

Meredith Oke:

ones she was finding. She's like, I understand

Meredith Oke:

why to wear them, but they're not. They don't

Meredith Oke:

have.

Katie Mant:

They're not cute.

Meredith Oke:

And I'm like, oh, Bon Charges are cute. So I

Meredith Oke:

don't know if that was you, Katie, or what, but

Meredith Oke:

this woman had like a trend level that she was

Meredith Oke:

not willing to go below even to save herself from

Meredith Oke:

the blue light.

Katie Mant:

I'm here for that as well.

Meredith Oke:

So that was. She was happy.

Andy Mant:

If it was up to me, they'd all be looking like

Andy Mant:

lab safety goggles. Thanks for them looking cute.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, I thought maybe I was like, oh, Andy's.

Meredith Oke:

Yeah, Andy did this with his wife. Maybe that's

Meredith Oke:

why his are so cute. So, yeah, I just wanted to

Meredith Oke:

wrap up. So I alluded to this earlier, but I

Meredith Oke:

really do think that entrepreneurs play such an

Meredith Oke:

important role in the progress of society because

Meredith Oke:

what you identified in order to start this

Meredith Oke:

company was a problem, and now you built a

Meredith Oke:

product to help to solve that problem. In order

Meredith Oke:

to sell the product, you need to educate the

Meredith Oke:

public on that problem. And so we all work

Meredith Oke:

together. And I just want to say that because I

Meredith Oke:

coach a lot of people who. In the health and

Meredith Oke:

wellness space, and they just want to help people

Meredith Oke:

and they don't want to charge any money and they

Meredith Oke:

don't want to start. They're like, oh, the

Meredith Oke:

business stuff, oh, I don't know. But I think it

Meredith Oke:

really matters. And I think it's a really

Meredith Oke:

important, crucial piece of creating a healthy

Meredith Oke:

culture to have companies that are rooted in good

Meredith Oke:

stuff. And so I just wanted to say that because I

Meredith Oke:

know it's hard.

Katie Mant:

You believe in and you're passionate about it,

Katie Mant:

and for those people that.

Meredith Oke:

Oh, thanks, Andy. Well, I. I really do love

Meredith Oke:

partnering with you guys. And you run a really

Meredith Oke:

tight ship. You know, your company is really well

Meredith Oke:

run, your marketing is good, all your stuff is

Meredith Oke:

good, and I think that matters. And you're

Meredith Oke:

modeling how to do that in a way that has

Meredith Oke:

integrity and that is overall, you know,

Meredith Oke:

contributing to our culture and to our society.

Meredith Oke:

And so good job. Yeah. It was a pleasure to have

Meredith Oke:

you both back on and, you know, to everyone

Meredith Oke:

listening, if you want to dig in more. Andy. I

Meredith Oke:

made Andy go really deep on his how to build a

Meredith Oke:

successful business in our first interview. So

Meredith Oke:

circle back and listen to that one. But thank you

Meredith Oke:

both, such a pleasure.

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