140: Screens That EMIT Sunlight? Next Level Tech Is Coming - Peter Veto & Lilliana Lettieri

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:00

Our microhabitat is completely different from the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:04

microhabitat that we had 150, even 200 years ago.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:09

It's completely different. And within that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:12

microhabitat that has a very different light

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:16

structure, let's say, you know, if you're to see

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:18

what's around there, the wavelengths and the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:21

intensity of the light and all of that, it's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:23

completely different. And then within that, we're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:26

also additionally bombarding our eyes with a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:30

very, very specific cue that even though we don't

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:35

see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:38

in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:00:41

it, our bodies are feeling it.

Meredith Oke: 00:00:43

Welcome to the QVC podcast, where we explore new

Meredith Oke: 00:00:46

paradigms in health and science that have a

Meredith Oke: 00:00:49

meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm

Meredith Oke: 00:00:52

your host, Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.

Meredith Oke: 00:00:55

I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue

Meredith Oke: 00:00:58

and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.

Meredith Oke: 00:01:03

I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away

Meredith Oke: 00:01:06

in an ivory tower. And that wisdom can be found

Meredith Oke: 00:01:09

in many places and understood by all of us. To

Meredith Oke: 00:01:14

keep in touch with this podcast, the QVC free

Meredith Oke: 00:01:16

community, our episode guide, and all the show

Meredith Oke: 00:01:19

notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's

Meredith Oke: 00:01:26

get together to create the future we all want to

Meredith Oke: 00:01:29

live in. Okay, you guys, the guests on my show

Meredith Oke: 00:01:34

today are making something that is so super cool.

Meredith Oke: 00:01:39

I don't, I don't even know what to say. It's like

Meredith Oke: 00:01:42

the craziest thing. And I have to say, Peter Vito

Meredith Oke: 00:01:47

and Liliana Lettiari, who are my guests today,

Meredith Oke: 00:01:51

have been working on this for a couple of years.

Meredith Oke: 00:01:54

They've been on my radar and, and you know, they,

Meredith Oke: 00:01:57

we even did a deep dive with them in QVC Pro in

Meredith Oke: 00:02:03

deep into their science. And I'm kind of

Meredith Oke: 00:02:07

embarrassed to say. I was sort of paid attention

Meredith Oke: 00:02:10

to what they were talking about, but not really

Meredith Oke: 00:02:13

until I decided to have them on my podcast and I

Meredith Oke: 00:02:17

started really looking at what they were making.

Meredith Oke: 00:02:20

I was like, oh, okay, yeah, it's a, it's a new

Meredith Oke: 00:02:23

kind of screen. All right, that sounds good.

Meredith Oke: 00:02:24

Like, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then I

Meredith Oke: 00:02:28

started to research what exactly these guys are

Meredith Oke: 00:02:30

doing, and it's crazy.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:02:34

I'm like, what?

Meredith Oke: 00:02:35

How are we not all so super excited about this?

Meredith Oke: 00:02:38

Okay, so when I explain it to you, you're going

Meredith Oke: 00:02:40

to get really excited. It's not available yet.

Meredith Oke: 00:02:43

They're still, you know, building out the

Meredith Oke: 00:02:44

prototype and working on getting their company

Meredith Oke: 00:02:47

going, but what they've done is they've created a

Meredith Oke: 00:02:52

monitor. So a screen that can be used for,

Meredith Oke: 00:02:57

attached to any computer. You could use it as a

Meredith Oke: 00:03:00

television. You know, it's a monitor that is lit.

Meredith Oke: 00:03:06

The light coming out of it is sunlight. Yes,

Meredith Oke: 00:03:12

Correct. The monitor emits sunlight. The sunlight

Meredith Oke: 00:03:17

is collected outside, travels through a fiber

Meredith Oke: 00:03:21

optic cable and, and comes out of the screen.

Meredith Oke: 00:03:25

Like, what? So now it's not. We're not trying to

Meredith Oke: 00:03:31

mitigate. We don't have to do all these hacks to

Meredith Oke: 00:03:35

mitigate the toxic light coming out of the

Meredith Oke: 00:03:37

screen. The light coming out of the screen could

Meredith Oke: 00:03:40

actually just be sunlight. Yes, yes, yes. We

Meredith Oke: 00:03:44

still want to go outside and do all of those

Meredith Oke: 00:03:45

things, but what if the time that we did have to

Meredith Oke: 00:03:49

spend on a screen was good for us? Like, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:03:55

crazy and this thing actually works. It's real.

Meredith Oke: 00:03:58

So I, I'm going to let them get into it and

Meredith Oke: 00:04:01

explain the story of how this all happened.

Meredith Oke: 00:04:04

Liliana and Peter both have PhDs. Peter has a PhD

Meredith Oke: 00:04:10

in psychophysics. And Liana, Liliana is more

Meredith Oke: 00:04:15

cross disciplinary. She studied a lot of

Meredith Oke: 00:04:17

different kinds of sciences. So this is one of

Meredith Oke: 00:04:19

those situations where it's like, as with

Meredith Oke: 00:04:22

anything that is working in the world today, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:04:26

interdisciplinary, it's abolishing silos. It's

Meredith Oke: 00:04:29

people with different backgrounds coming together

Meredith Oke: 00:04:31

and going, what if we did this? What if we tried

Meredith Oke: 00:04:33

this? Peter's really focused on the science and

Meredith Oke: 00:04:35

Liliana is building out the business and I

Meredith Oke: 00:04:38

couldn't be more excited to support them in that

Meredith Oke: 00:04:41

endeavor. So enjoy this conversation. In the

Meredith Oke: 00:04:47

meantime, since a sunlit screen is currently not

Meredith Oke: 00:04:52

in any of our living rooms or on our desks or on

Meredith Oke: 00:04:56

our tables or on our screened in porches where I

Meredith Oke: 00:04:59

currently am, we still should be mindful of how

Meredith Oke: 00:05:04

we use them and, you know, download all the

Meredith Oke: 00:05:07

filters for during the day. That's what I do. If

Meredith Oke: 00:05:09

people are like, why are you wearing blue clips?

Meredith Oke: 00:05:11

You don't wear blue blockers during the day. I

Meredith Oke: 00:05:13

use, I use the iris filter and I during the day

Meredith Oke: 00:05:16

and then in the evening if I need to be on a

Meredith Oke: 00:05:19

screen or I'd like to watch a movie or a TV show

Meredith Oke: 00:05:22

with my family, I put on the blue blockers, which

Meredith Oke: 00:05:25

I get from boncharge.com our partner on this

Meredith Oke: 00:05:29

podcast. So if you are using a screen and you

Meredith Oke: 00:05:33

don't have blue blockers, you should really go

Meredith Oke: 00:05:35

get some. The code is QBC at checkout for a

Meredith Oke: 00:05:39

discount. And now back to the future of screens

Meredith Oke: 00:05:43

with Liliana and Peter. Peter Vito. Liliana

Meredith Oke: 00:05:46

Latieri. Welcome to the QVC podcast. I'm really

Meredith Oke: 00:05:50

excited to have you both here. For people who

Meredith Oke: 00:05:53

don't know, I mean, I just will have said it in

Meredith Oke: 00:05:55

the intro, but you're working on some really

Meredith Oke: 00:05:58

exciting technology that literally brings

Meredith Oke: 00:06:02

sunlight into our computer monitors. So we're

Meredith Oke: 00:06:06

going to get into it. But I first want to ask how

Meredith Oke: 00:06:09

you both arrived at this project. It's in some

Meredith Oke: 00:06:14

ways seems so intuitively correct and in other

Meredith Oke: 00:06:17

ways is just completely cutting edge and mind

Meredith Oke: 00:06:20

blowing that you're doing this. Love to hear how

Meredith Oke: 00:06:24

you ended up making a sunlight fueled screen.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:29

Yeah. So I'll give you a little bit of my

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:32

background because I think in context, maybe it

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:36

makes a little bit more sense about how I met up

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:41

with Peter and why it all made sense to me

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:44

immediately. So I was trained in biology. I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:49

worked looking at organisms and how they signal

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:06:55

and use color and light to interact and, and to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:00

survive in their specific environments. So what I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:05

learned was all about vision and how colors and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:09

wavelengths move through the environment in very

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:12

specific ways and in specific channels. And you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:17

know, what we tend to think of as color is based

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:21

on our categorical way of using light to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:25

interpret our environment with our specific

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:27

cones. Right. But bees or mantis shrimp or birds,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:31

they all have very different ways of interpreting

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:34

their environment. So that's sort of always been

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:37

an understanding. And then I eventually moved

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:42

into the business world, into signaling in a very

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:47

different way in home electronics, consumer

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:52

electronics, and learned about Bluetooth and WI

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:07:57

fi and how data is brought in to your home and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:03

signaled throughout the environment. And so

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:06

that's sort of where I came to this understanding

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:11

when I reached sort of my, my health awakening,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:14

if you will. That, that then brought me to, to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:17

meet Peter.

Meredith Oke: 00:08:20

That is so fascinating. And of course, what

Meredith Oke: 00:08:23

strikes me first is, and I find this with

Meredith Oke: 00:08:27

everybody who has deep insights in this field is

Meredith Oke: 00:08:30

that there's almost always overlapping fields

Meredith Oke: 00:08:35

that aren't necessarily ever supposed to, under

Meredith Oke: 00:08:39

normal circumstances, talk to each other. So in

Meredith Oke: 00:08:41

your case, you were looking at biology and

Meredith Oke: 00:08:44

specifically how insects see. And then you moved

Meredith Oke: 00:08:48

into a job that required you to understand how we

Meredith Oke: 00:08:51

receive technology into our lives in our homes.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:55

Right. So it was actually fishes, believe it or

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:08:58

not. So I was actually setting up things to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:02

measure light and communication with color

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:06

underwater in big contrast and building rigs, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:12

know, that would hold a camera and taking

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:16

measurements with little underwater contraptions

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:18

and trying to figure out how organisms

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:22

communicate to each other in the ocean. So then

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:27

moving into technology, you know, it's a whole

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:31

new world. But to me, it all Interconnects very

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:35

much. I mean, I was trained as an

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:37

interdisciplinary scientist. I took classes with

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:41

chemists and engineers, and, you know, the whole

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:44

idea was to sort of like, bring these fields

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:46

together, learn how to talk to one another in a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:49

way that's not so, you know, filled with jargon,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:52

that you're like, I don't know what you're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:54

talking about. You know, that I can see that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:56

you're very smart, but I don't understand what

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:09:58

you're, what you're speaking about. So we learned

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:02

to talk to one another, you know, in a common

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:05

language. And I think that that has served me,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:10

you know, down the road to be able to talk to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:12

people from different fields and understand that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:15

we're, We're. We're. We're tackling the same

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:18

problem, but from very different, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:10:20

expertise. So.

Meredith Oke: 00:10:23

Oh, I love that. And, you know, I really think

Meredith Oke: 00:10:26

that, yeah, this siloing of science and research

Meredith Oke: 00:10:30

and even industries, you know, you have like, the

Meredith Oke: 00:10:34

FTC regulating ems, and they don't, like, what

Meredith Oke: 00:10:37

did the FTC know about biology? Like, they went

Meredith Oke: 00:10:40

to decide, make business decisions. Right. Like,

Meredith Oke: 00:10:43

so this, this siloing has been hugely

Meredith Oke: 00:10:46

detrimental, I think, to civilization. So I love

Meredith Oke: 00:10:48

that you're weaving things together and doing it

Meredith Oke: 00:10:51

in a way where you can talk about it publicly.

Meredith Oke: 00:10:53

My, My soapbox right now is that science needs

Meredith Oke: 00:10:57

storytellers. I, you know, everyone I talk to,

Meredith Oke: 00:11:01

it's like, I know we're just at the beginning of.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:03

The beginning of understanding things, but

Meredith Oke: 00:11:04

there's so much science there. Like, there's so

Meredith Oke: 00:11:06

much. And I think a lot of people, myself

Meredith Oke: 00:11:09

included, have kind of labored under the belief

Meredith Oke: 00:11:12

that once there's enough science to prove

Meredith Oke: 00:11:14

something, we'll just all magically know, right?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:11:18

We'll just all get it, shift to the new right

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:11:20

thing.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:21

And I'm like, oh, no, that's not how it works.

Meredith Oke: 00:11:28

Okay, so, Peter, tell us your way into this world.

Peter Veto: 00:11:33

Yeah, to connect to all of this, beyond the

Peter Veto: 00:11:35

interdisciplinary background, of course, to

Peter Veto: 00:11:39

pixel, and also to what we do, which is similar

Peter Veto: 00:11:42

in that sense to that of Liliana's. The other

Peter Veto: 00:11:45

common thread, I believe, is the personal

Peter Veto: 00:11:49

involvement or having had the experience of

Peter Veto: 00:11:53

health issues which relate to light and how

Peter Veto: 00:11:56

increasing exposure to daylight can help with

Peter Veto: 00:11:58

that and otherwise. I was also a researcher

Peter Veto: 00:12:01

first, so before 2020, I was a researcher in

Peter Veto: 00:12:05

psychophysics, studying human vision and

Peter Veto: 00:12:07

perception, starting with electrophyll.

Meredith Oke: 00:12:10

Okay, sorry, hang on. What is psychophysics? Tell

Meredith Oke: 00:12:14

us more about that. That sounds cool.

Peter Veto: 00:12:16

Psychophysics is basically measuring something in

Peter Veto: 00:12:18

physical reality and using that as a stimulus and

Peter Veto: 00:12:21

then measuring on the other end of the

Peter Veto: 00:12:24

interaction something in the psychological realms

Peter Veto: 00:12:28

to how animals or humans in my case react to

Peter Veto: 00:12:31

that. Basically my main topics were around

Peter Veto: 00:12:36

vision, so how we see things. And firstly

Peter Veto: 00:12:38

starting with electrophysiology, so EEG and tms,

Peter Veto: 00:12:42

which is measuring electric waves from outside of

Peter Veto: 00:12:46

the skull, so electric activity of the brain. And

Peter Veto: 00:12:49

then TMS is using electromagnetic policies to

Peter Veto: 00:12:53

induce some activity in the brain. But then I

Peter Veto: 00:12:56

moved on to psychophysics, which is kind of

Peter Veto: 00:12:59

leaving this middle ground of the messy

Peter Veto: 00:13:03

neuroscience part out and measures on what is

Peter Veto: 00:13:07

more tangible. And so that came in my career, I

Peter Veto: 00:13:11

think more just accidentally. But looking back,

Peter Veto: 00:13:14

I'm very, very grateful for that because it

Peter Veto: 00:13:18

brought me much closer to whatever is pragmatic.

Peter Veto: 00:13:22

So measuring really reality and not just trying

Peter Veto: 00:13:25

to figure out through some modeling what's going

Peter Veto: 00:13:28

on inside. The biggest issue there being with all

Peter Veto: 00:13:30

the neuroscience stuff, is that no one really

Peter Veto: 00:13:33

understands what the brain does. So that's how I

Peter Veto: 00:13:36

got to vision and action as well. So I was using

Peter Veto: 00:13:40

their eye tracking, pupilometry, motion capture,

Peter Veto: 00:13:43

stuff like that.

Meredith Oke: 00:13:45

Okay, so I heard some interesting things in your

Meredith Oke: 00:13:48

answer as well, which is that a lot of brain

Meredith Oke: 00:13:51

science is done based on modeling and you prefer

Meredith Oke: 00:13:54

to work on actual observations, which I think is

Meredith Oke: 00:13:59

also really in the wheelhouse that we're all

Meredith Oke: 00:14:01

operating in, which is how does this science help

Meredith Oke: 00:14:05

people right now? What choices can I make in my

Meredith Oke: 00:14:09

life, in my day to day life that's going to help

Meredith Oke: 00:14:12

me right now versus just funneling it into

Meredith Oke: 00:14:17

research and research and research that never

Meredith Oke: 00:14:18

quite bridges into real life. And it's

Meredith Oke: 00:14:21

interesting, I was YouTube served me up a video

Meredith Oke: 00:14:24

just yesterday of some neuroscience guy who was

Meredith Oke: 00:14:28

like, well, psychology and philosophy are fine,

Meredith Oke: 00:14:31

but it's really neuroscience because now we know

Meredith Oke: 00:14:33

that this part of the brain does this, and this

Meredith Oke: 00:14:35

part of the brain, I'm like, you don't know

Meredith Oke: 00:14:36

anything. Shut up. You and your 28 million, 28

Meredith Oke: 00:14:40

million views on YouTube. But I just, it, it's

Meredith Oke: 00:14:46

interesting to me the certainty with which people

Meredith Oke: 00:14:49

can convey things that they've studied that

Meredith Oke: 00:14:53

aren't, you know, really necessarily the whole

Meredith Oke: 00:14:56

story at all.

Peter Veto: 00:14:57

Absolutely. And the other thing that connects to

Peter Veto: 00:14:59

here with what you said, is that we know plenty

Peter Veto: 00:15:02

enough to do better in lighting in this place. So

Peter Veto: 00:15:06

looking for impact, I was thinking I could do

Peter Veto: 00:15:09

some more research and write papers which will be

Peter Veto: 00:15:12

read by a few more academics and that's it. But

Peter Veto: 00:15:15

actually we know plenty enough to know how it can

Peter Veto: 00:15:18

be done better. And of course, daylight being the

Peter Veto: 00:15:21

optimal Light source, it just really seemed

Peter Veto: 00:15:23

trivial, but also, again, from personal

Peter Veto: 00:15:27

experience and other backgrounds to how Pixar

Peter Veto: 00:15:30

came to be. But this is one of it that it's

Peter Veto: 00:15:35

always cool to know more and to dig into

Peter Veto: 00:15:36

mechanisms, but if we can see which light source

Peter Veto: 00:15:41

works better for people, that's a very simple

Peter Veto: 00:15:43

thing. I think we know plenty enough about that

Peter Veto: 00:15:45

to know how we could do better.

Meredith Oke: 00:15:48

Yeah, exactly. It's like, okay, oh, this is

Meredith Oke: 00:15:51

clear. Like, let's take some. Make some practical

Meredith Oke: 00:15:54

changes to the world. So tell me, tell me about

Meredith Oke: 00:15:57

your personal health story that led you to this

Meredith Oke: 00:15:59

and your epiphany about daylight.

Peter Veto: 00:16:02

In my case, this started really in 2018. I was a

Peter Veto: 00:16:05

postdoc at Cambridge and working mainly in a dark

Peter Veto: 00:16:09

length. So for these vision experiments and

Peter Veto: 00:16:12

humans, we of course need a controlled light

Peter Veto: 00:16:14

environment. So it's all dark with electric

Peter Veto: 00:16:16

lighting and mainly display. So that's where I

Peter Veto: 00:16:18

spent most of my day. And when I was not there,

Peter Veto: 00:16:22

my office setup was really not very ergonomic. So

Peter Veto: 00:16:25

the only chance I had to play somewhere desktop

Peter Veto: 00:16:27

monitor was right in a west facing window. So it

Peter Veto: 00:16:32

was always sunny when I got to that point in my

Peter Veto: 00:16:35

day to use it. And I had to block the window and

Peter Veto: 00:16:37

block the sun completely. And so that's when I

Peter Veto: 00:16:40

was starting to think that I could just get rid

Peter Veto: 00:16:42

of the backside of the monitor and use the

Peter Veto: 00:16:45

sunlight for that. And meanwhile, because of more

Peter Veto: 00:16:47

work and other issues, I also had increasing

Peter Veto: 00:16:51

symptoms of light sensitivity. And I was looking

Peter Veto: 00:16:54

for answers for that, which my professional

Peter Veto: 00:16:56

really couldn't give. Again, it's not

Peter Veto: 00:16:59

interdisciplinary enough so that lighting

Peter Veto: 00:17:02

research would be connected enough to basic

Peter Veto: 00:17:04

vision science, which, the latter, of course, was

Peter Veto: 00:17:07

my field at that, at that time, let alone to

Peter Veto: 00:17:10

anything. And that has to do with light

Peter Veto: 00:17:12

physiology. And so that's when I started to learn

Peter Veto: 00:17:16

more about this and realize that this is about so

Peter Veto: 00:17:19

much more than.

Meredith Oke: 00:17:21

So the requirements of your job where you were in

Meredith Oke: 00:17:25

darkness a lot during the day. Is that right? And

Meredith Oke: 00:17:28

then in front of your computer in the. So you had

Meredith Oke: 00:17:32

like dark mornings, computer lit afternoons. Is

Meredith Oke: 00:17:36

that sort of. That was the setup of your life and

Meredith Oke: 00:17:39

then started to take a toll?

Peter Veto: 00:17:40

Yes, definitely. Yes. And when I could have had a

Peter Veto: 00:17:43

sun office space, I had to block the sun to even

Peter Veto: 00:17:46

be able to see the monitor.

Meredith Oke: 00:17:48

Okay.

Peter Veto: 00:17:48

So I was thinking if I could channel the sun into

Peter Veto: 00:17:51

the display, that would help with both. Both

Peter Veto: 00:17:54

problems.

Meredith Oke: 00:17:58

Wow, I love how your brain works. So what were

Meredith Oke: 00:18:01

some of the symptoms that you noticed when you

Meredith Oke: 00:18:02

were living a life where it was you had Darkness

Meredith Oke: 00:18:07

for the first half of the day and then computer

Meredith Oke: 00:18:10

monitor light in the second half of the day. How

Meredith Oke: 00:18:12

were you feeling physically, mentally, like what

Meredith Oke: 00:18:15

was going on?

Peter Veto: 00:18:16

I think I have always had some sensitivities and

Peter Veto: 00:18:19

especially for light, light sources which are

Peter Veto: 00:18:21

weird. And that really started with car

Peter Veto: 00:18:24

headlights a little earlier when LED headlights

Peter Veto: 00:18:27

started to become more popular and I realized

Peter Veto: 00:18:30

that I no longer enjoy driving at night and it

Peter Veto: 00:18:33

took some while to even figure out why. And

Peter Veto: 00:18:36

obviously that means that my symptoms were not so

Peter Veto: 00:18:39

severe. But then this got much worse when I spend

Peter Veto: 00:18:43

more time indoors, more time in front of computer

Peter Veto: 00:18:46

screens and that then connects to headaches, all

Peter Veto: 00:18:49

sorts of other issues and just eye strain in

Peter Veto: 00:18:51

general with various symptoms. Part of that can

Peter Veto: 00:18:56

also be temporary myopia which I experienced

Peter Veto: 00:18:59

periodically, which is interesting because in my

Peter Veto: 00:19:02

adolescent years I was myopic and then I kind of

Peter Veto: 00:19:06

successfully trained myself out of it because I

Peter Veto: 00:19:08

was lucky enough to be sent to a more forward

Peter Veto: 00:19:12

thinking ophthalmologist who didn't just

Peter Veto: 00:19:15

prescribe sunglasses, but also gave exercises and

Peter Veto: 00:19:18

good advice, which in my case were wow. But I

Peter Veto: 00:19:22

guess I'm still myopic in the sense that the

Peter Veto: 00:19:25

symptoms can come back. And so this place can

Peter Veto: 00:19:28

induce temporary myopia in many people. And it's

Peter Veto: 00:19:32

still a somewhat open question how much that

Peter Veto: 00:19:34

translates to longer term myopia. It seems to do

Peter Veto: 00:19:37

translate to some degree and in my case that that

Peter Veto: 00:19:40

is also part of the symptoms that I can

Peter Veto: 00:19:43

experience. So I guess there are these flashbacks

Peter Veto: 00:19:47

of blurry vision even though normally I don't

Peter Veto: 00:19:50

have it and I don't need glasses any longer even

Peter Veto: 00:19:52

for driving.

Meredith Oke: 00:19:54

Wow. So you were having headaches and eye strain

Meredith Oke: 00:19:58

and your. My myopia was getting worse.

Peter Veto: 00:20:02

Yes, that's right. And I, I never have had that.

Meredith Oke: 00:20:04

And then when you changed and had a. Yeah, when

Meredith Oke: 00:20:08

you changed your lighting environment to get more

Meredith Oke: 00:20:10

daylight during the day, what happened?

Peter Veto: 00:20:11

Yeah, so this got pretty much fixed through just

Peter Veto: 00:20:14

more, more awareness of how to organize my day

Peter Veto: 00:20:18

and how to be exposed to daylight increasingly

Peter Veto: 00:20:20

starting from the morning because I'm. I was

Peter Veto: 00:20:23

especially then more sunsens as well. So it

Peter Veto: 00:20:26

really needs to start gently and with daylight.

Peter Veto: 00:20:29

And that just helps and reduces all the

Peter Veto: 00:20:32

sensitivity symptoms also to bright sources

Peter Veto: 00:20:35

including headlights. And it doesn't go away. And

Peter Veto: 00:20:38

who knows why that is the case really. I don't

Peter Veto: 00:20:40

think we understand why some people are sensitive

Peter Veto: 00:20:43

to LEDs and others not. There are many aspects to

Peter Veto: 00:20:46

this, but at least you can reduce the symptoms by

Peter Veto: 00:20:50

just being more aligned to nature.

Meredith Oke: 00:20:55

Yes, and that's true A lot of the time when I

Meredith Oke: 00:20:58

talk to people about this, they're like, oh, I

Meredith Oke: 00:20:59

can't go outside. Like, it's too bright. My eyes

Meredith Oke: 00:21:01

are, you know, and that's actually a symptom of

Meredith Oke: 00:21:04

not being outside enough. So what you're saying

Meredith Oke: 00:21:06

is you went out, you started early in the morning

Meredith Oke: 00:21:08

before it's like super, super bright and, and

Meredith Oke: 00:21:11

gradually adjusted. Seems like a good way to do

Meredith Oke: 00:21:14

it.

Peter Veto: 00:21:14

Exactly. This is huge. And so many people say

Peter Veto: 00:21:16

that, oh, the sun is stronger now than it used to

Peter Veto: 00:21:18

be. And as children they were, whatever, playing

Peter Veto: 00:21:21

outdoor all day long and it didn't burn them. And

Peter Veto: 00:21:25

it doesn't even occur to them that it's not so

Peter Veto: 00:21:27

much probably the sun that changed, but they

Peter Veto: 00:21:30

have, right?

Meredith Oke: 00:21:33

Yeah. Their environment, their indoor environment

Meredith Oke: 00:21:36

has changed, which has made us more sensitive to

Meredith Oke: 00:21:38

our outdoor environment. Liliana, what's your

Meredith Oke: 00:21:42

story of coming to understand how important light

Meredith Oke: 00:21:45

is and natural light is in terms of overall

Meredith Oke: 00:21:48

health?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:21:49

Yeah, so I would say after about a decade in

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:21:54

academic research, which was many times in labs

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:21:58

and, you know, very controlled lighting

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:01

environments and indoors largely, and then

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:05

transitioning into the business world where I was

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:08

often on calls with international teams before

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:12

sunrise and then after sunset and just, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:15

a lot of screen time, a lot of indoor office

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:19

spaces and a lot of exposure to different

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:23

communication varieties, I started to experience

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:30

sort of weird metabolic related symptoms, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:34

know, and, and I sort of first attributed it to,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:37

oh, it seems like it's maybe early menopause,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:40

early perimenopause and you know, hot flashes,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:45

night sweats, headaches, insomnia, dopamine

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:49

dysregulation, just all kinds of weird things

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:53

that, you know, if, if I talk to people, they're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:55

like, oh, you're just getting older, that's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:22:57

normal. And, and I, and I, you know, I, I sort of

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:01

took that as the acceptance storyline at the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:06

time. And then it started to really feel like

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:09

this isn't quite, I don't really feel like this

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:11

is the root, this isn't really what's happening.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:14

So I started to really do some more research and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:19

when I started to learn more about this, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:23

know, the circadian science and really started

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:25

to, you know, recognize and make the connection

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:27

between like, oh, my natural environment is very

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:31

unnatural and so maybe I need to really realign.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:34

And so when I started to do that, these symptoms

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:37

started to go away on their own. And, and you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:42

know, and then I was, then I, it was like the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:44

light bulb really went off and I was like, okay,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:47

I really need to learn a lot more about this and,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:50

and I really started to piece together that,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:23:55

well, two things that one of the things that I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:00

had been attributing to just general, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:03

getting, getting older and perimenopause was

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:05

really mitochondrial energy loss. That, that was

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:10

really what was at the root of my symptoms. And

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:13

the more that I did things to give my cells what

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:17

they needed to be able to recharge and repair

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:20

those symptoms just went away. And the other

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:24

thing that I really learned was that there was a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:26

lot of screen time in my life and that it was, it

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:30

was a huge part of the stressor that would

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:34

trigger when I would, when I would struggle with

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:36

the symptoms. So. Yeah. Wow.

Meredith Oke: 00:24:41

And did, did it, did you connect back to when

Meredith Oke: 00:24:44

you'd done your work with animals and how

Meredith Oke: 00:24:46

everything about them was based on their

Meredith Oke: 00:24:49

environment?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:49

Totally.

Meredith Oke: 00:24:50

It's like for us, whatever, yeah, we're. I'll

Meredith Oke: 00:24:53

just be on zoom nine hours a day. It's fine.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:55

Yeah, exactly. It was like it all just came right

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:24:58

back and I was like, oh, our microhabitat is

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:03

completely different from the microhabitat that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:06

we had 150, even 200 years ago. You know, it's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:11

completely different. And within that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:13

microhabitat that has a very different light

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:17

structure. Let's say, you know, if you're to see

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:20

what's around there, the wavelengths and the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:24

intensity of the light and all of that, it's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:26

completely different. And then within that, we're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:30

also additionally bombarding our eyes with a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:34

very, very specific cue that even though we don't

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:39

see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:42

in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:46

it, our bodies are feeling it, they are getting

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:48

that signal through our eyes. You know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:53

subconsciously, invisibly, secretly, whatever you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:56

want to call it, the body is aware of it. Even

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:25:59

though we as, you know, organisms with a fancy

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:04

eyeball that has some very fancy cones and rods

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:07

that can help us attune to our environment. I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:11

think what we often forget is that there's so

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:14

much information flying around on so many

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:16

channels. And in order to survive, we as

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:20

organisms, every organism, we actually have to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:23

filter out a lot of information. And that

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:27

information is filtered out to help us survive.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:31

Right. There's only so much information we can

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:33

process. But when that happens, I think we as

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:37

humans with our big fancy brains, we start to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:41

think, well, this is just all I need to pay

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:43

attention to is what I can see and what I can

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:45

perceive and everything else doesn't matter or,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:48

or everything else that I don't need to pay

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:49

attention to becomes inconsequential when the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:53

reality is our bodies are very attuned to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:26:57

everything going on around us.

Meredith Oke: 00:27:02

Yes, yes. And when you. When you start to look at

Meredith Oke: 00:27:07

it from the subatomic level, which we can't see

Meredith Oke: 00:27:11

at all, but we know exists, it's like those

Meredith Oke: 00:27:15

frequencies are like tractors driving through the

Meredith Oke: 00:27:20

living room to ourselves.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:22

Right, right, Absolutely.

Meredith Oke: 00:27:25

Okay, so how did you connect with Peter and

Meredith Oke: 00:27:31

decide to, like, fully shift into. Into this as

Meredith Oke: 00:27:35

your. As your main thing?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:38

Yeah, so Peter and I met when I was starting to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:43

look for just other people in the community who

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:47

were doing something that I felt like I could. I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:52

could believe in. You know, like, I felt like I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:54

had been in this consumer electronics world for

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:27:57

so, you know, almost a decade. I had really, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:01

know, shifted my awareness to be like, this stuff

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:04

is killing us. We need to do this tech better.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:09

You know, and it. I mean, you know, literally, co

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:12

workers who had, you know, been very healthy,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:15

gone to the gym, they did all the things, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:17

know, started to drop off because they had cancer

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:20

and they had to, you know, just leave. So, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:25

know, it. It was time for me to really look for

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:27

something that. That made more sense to me

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:30

professionally. And so I. When I met Peter, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:33

know, he had already developed this amazing

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:37

technology, and I immediately was like, I know

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:42

how to build these things because this is what I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:44

do for my job. You know, I was project managing,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:49

building electronics that go in people's homes,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:52

working with the factories, working with the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:54

engineering teams, you know, making sure it's got

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:57

all the features and all the parts that we need

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:28:59

to get it out there. And, you know, I. When I.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:03

When we had our first conversation, I was like, I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:06

think we can. I think we can do this. Like, I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:08

think I can help. I can. I can bring something to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:11

the table here. So. So, yeah, I was excited.

Meredith Oke: 00:29:14

Oh, that's so cool.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:16

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:29:16

Oh, I love this. Okay. So you brought all of that

Meredith Oke: 00:29:20

valuable experience and knowledge and

Meredith Oke: 00:29:22

understanding of supply chain things and all

Meredith Oke: 00:29:26

that, that stuff.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:29:29

All that fun stuff, all that stuff that makes me.

Meredith Oke: 00:29:34

Good night. But yes, it's very important if you

Meredith Oke: 00:29:37

want to make things. I totally, I value that. So

Meredith Oke: 00:29:41

you brought that to the table and then Peter

Meredith Oke: 00:29:43

brought the technology, which so. And I love this

Meredith Oke: 00:29:46

story. So, Peter, it's like one of those aha

Meredith Oke: 00:29:48

moments. You're sitting in your office, you've

Meredith Oke: 00:29:53

started to understand how important natural light

Meredith Oke: 00:29:55

is. You realize that you're blocking out the

Meredith Oke: 00:29:57

sunlight coming through your western facing

Meredith Oke: 00:29:59

window in order to see Your monitor. And you're

Meredith Oke: 00:30:01

like, wait a minute, what if the sun was the

Meredith Oke: 00:30:05

light source for the monitor? Like, so. Good.

Peter Veto: 00:30:09

Thank you. Good summary.

Meredith Oke: 00:30:10

What happened?

Peter Veto: 00:30:12

Much better than that.

Meredith Oke: 00:30:15

So you had this epiphany and then what'd you do?

Peter Veto: 00:30:18

Yeah, and then I. Well, I built it. I started to

Peter Veto: 00:30:21

experiment, and I started with how many others

Peter Veto: 00:30:25

have to remove the backside of an LCD to somehow

Peter Veto: 00:30:28

gather daylight directly and channel it into the

Peter Veto: 00:30:32

display? And first I wanted to use louvers. And

Peter Veto: 00:30:35

that was an idea with which I experimented with

Peter Veto: 00:30:39

and realized that in some cases it might work,

Peter Veto: 00:30:42

but it will never work for any broader use case.

Peter Veto: 00:30:47

And even in a single use case, it so much depends

Peter Veto: 00:30:50

on the angle of the sun, which keeps changing

Peter Veto: 00:30:52

throughout the day. And later, Ezai, a small

Peter Veto: 00:30:55

startup, did a product which did something

Peter Veto: 00:30:57

extremely similar, but instead of louvers, they

Peter Veto: 00:31:00

just had the backside of the display to open. And

Peter Veto: 00:31:03

then you can change that angle to hopefully

Peter Veto: 00:31:05

channel more light from whatever direction, maybe

Peter Veto: 00:31:08

from a window into the display. And it kind of

Peter Veto: 00:31:12

works, but not really. So they also for their

Peter Veto: 00:31:15

next round of products, immediately they moved on

Peter Veto: 00:31:17

to rscd, which is then what Hisense and Sun

Peter Veto: 00:31:22

Vision Display and Daylight Computer and all the

Peter Veto: 00:31:25

others are doing. But nobody has really managed

Peter Veto: 00:31:28

to get this daylight collection to work properly.

Peter Veto: 00:31:32

And then as a next stage, I thought, okay, we

Peter Veto: 00:31:34

have to concentrate sunlight. So I started with

Peter Veto: 00:31:37

larger Fresnel lenses to collect light from a

Peter Veto: 00:31:41

larger surface in the window and channel into the

Peter Veto: 00:31:44

display. And maybe to try to direct them to with

Peter Veto: 00:31:46

lens arrays, which can change the direction of

Peter Veto: 00:31:49

daylight. But of course, again, daylight is very

Peter Veto: 00:31:52

diffuse and it keeps changing its angle with the

Peter Veto: 00:31:55

sun. So then sooner I realized that this is the

Peter Veto: 00:32:00

same situation, just a little better. It might

Peter Veto: 00:32:02

work, but definitely not in all the cases where I

Peter Veto: 00:32:06

want it to work. And even then, you need to be in

Peter Veto: 00:32:09

the window or very close for this to work. And

Peter Veto: 00:32:13

then meanwhile, I moved back to Germany. I was

Peter Veto: 00:32:15

doing another postdoc at Ulm, and I got some help

Peter Veto: 00:32:19

from an optics professor at. And then it slowly

Peter Veto: 00:32:25

became clear that really the way to do this

Peter Veto: 00:32:27

properly is to collect daylight outside and use a

Peter Veto: 00:32:31

fiber optic cable to channel it indoors. And then

Peter Veto: 00:32:35

you can use it anywhere, and then you can use it

Peter Veto: 00:32:37

in the basement, in a windowless office,

Peter Veto: 00:32:39

anywhere. And it's going to be an intense light

Peter Veto: 00:32:42

source, because the issue with all the displays

Peter Veto: 00:32:45

is that you need much more light than what you

Peter Veto: 00:32:48

have just from a reflective surface of the same

Peter Veto: 00:32:51

size of your display, because it needs to pass

Peter Veto: 00:32:53

through so many layers to give you the colored

Peter Veto: 00:32:56

image. And because of that, any reflective

Peter Veto: 00:32:59

display, any other daylight technology, will

Peter Veto: 00:33:02

always look much dimmer than if you just place a

Peter Veto: 00:33:05

white piece of paper next to it. So generally

Peter Veto: 00:33:08

they are too dim. And that's also why the image

Peter Veto: 00:33:10

quality has to be low for it to work. But if you

Peter Veto: 00:33:14

can concentrate daylight, then you can achieve

Peter Veto: 00:33:16

all the visual qualities of regular desktop

Peter Veto: 00:33:19

monitors while using daylight, so. While also

Peter Veto: 00:33:22

offering all the health benefits and comfort

Peter Veto: 00:33:25

benefits of anything that is daylight. And so

Peter Veto: 00:33:29

that's when it really started. 2019, I guess, the

Peter Veto: 00:33:35

first prototyping. Of course, many iterations

Peter Veto: 00:33:38

came, but that's when the concept started to

Peter Veto: 00:33:40

solidify.

Meredith Oke: 00:33:44

Okay, so I heard you describing this on another

Meredith Oke: 00:33:49

call and you were like, oh, yes, all this

Meredith Oke: 00:33:51

technology, we just do this. And I'm thinking,

Meredith Oke: 00:33:53

I'm like, wait a minute, did Peter just say that

Meredith Oke: 00:33:57

he's got a cable channeling sunlight into my,

Meredith Oke: 00:34:02

into the monitor? And so the light coming out of

Meredith Oke: 00:34:06

the monitor is full spectrum sunlight. I know you

Meredith Oke: 00:34:10

mentioned you blocked uv, but other than that,

Meredith Oke: 00:34:13

like, is that what's happening?

Peter Veto: 00:34:15

Yes, it is. And of course it's not my invention.

Peter Veto: 00:34:17

So these tools have existed.

Meredith Oke: 00:34:18

This seems like amazing.

Peter Veto: 00:34:20

No, no, no.

Meredith Oke: 00:34:21

Sorry, you're okay. Yeah.

Peter Veto: 00:34:22

These tools have existed for 60 years or more.

Peter Veto: 00:34:25

The thing is that they have a very niche market

Peter Veto: 00:34:28

because they compete with Windows. So they are

Peter Veto: 00:34:30

adding a space. It is much cheaper and simpler if

Peter Veto: 00:34:33

you just use Windows or even light tunnels. But

Peter Veto: 00:34:36

for display, they cannot work, and that's why

Peter Veto: 00:34:38

they are very useful. So I guess I just connect

Peter Veto: 00:34:42

it to Fields and then what needed to be

Peter Veto: 00:34:45

engineered by us, and the proprietary part is the

Peter Veto: 00:34:48

backlighting architecture of Pixan. So how do you

Peter Veto: 00:34:51

deal with a very intense and small light source

Peter Veto: 00:34:53

and spread that light evenly on the back surface

Peter Veto: 00:34:56

of the lcd, while of course also having an

Peter Veto: 00:34:59

electric light source. You need that whenever

Peter Veto: 00:35:01

sunlight is not available. And to have a

Peter Veto: 00:35:04

standalone, fully usable display also for the

Peter Veto: 00:35:07

nighttime.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:08

Okay, this is just really crazy to me. So,

Meredith Oke: 00:35:11

Liliana, how would you explain what's happening

Meredith Oke: 00:35:16

here? And how did you first wrap your head around

Meredith Oke: 00:35:18

it? Because I hear Peter saying, oh, there's been

Meredith Oke: 00:35:21

versions of this technology where you put

Meredith Oke: 00:35:23

sunlight through a cable. Really? There has been.

Meredith Oke: 00:35:26

And like, could we people use that to light their

Meredith Oke: 00:35:29

basements? But I'll hold that question. Just,

Meredith Oke: 00:35:31

let's just stay focused on this on the other

Meredith Oke: 00:35:34

monitor for now.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:35

Yes. So when Peter first explained it, I also

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:40

kind of had to ask a few follow up questions. I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:42

was like, wait a minute, so you're, you're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:44

powering the monitor. And he's like, no, no, not

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:47

with solar panels, solar collectors. So it's, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:52

know, these lenses that are collecting and then

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:35:55

concentrating light and then using fiber optics,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:00

which is, you know, in the communications world,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:02

that's what we use to bring in data instead of

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:06

photons necessarily. But the, the fiber optics

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:10

are the same, right? I mean, you know, my mind

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:13

immediately went to, oh, yeah, you know, people

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:16

used to put satellite dishes on their homes, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:18

know, to collect information. And then, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:22

we use fiber optics to bring data into our homes

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:26

and then we connect it to our little. So it was

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:28

like all the pieces made, sentiment, made sense

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:31

to me. But when he said it, I was like, oh, yeah,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:35

that's what we should be doing. We should be

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:39

using the sunlight to backlight the monitor,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:43

because the monitor has these very, very narrow

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:47

wavelengths that are only indivisible. We're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:50

missing all of that, you know, beautiful,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:53

restorative, regenerative part of the spectrum.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:56

The part that you go out, you know, early in the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:36:59

morning to collect, to get everything going and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:02

healing. And, you know, people are now using

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:05

photobiomodulation because we know that we're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:07

infrared deprived and all. You know, we know how

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:12

to use fiber optics. We do it all the time. We

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:15

call the cable guy to come. You know, like, yeah,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:19

it's not, you.

Meredith Oke: 00:37:20

Know, it was just like, my brain is exploding

Meredith Oke: 00:37:23

here. Okay, so we're just, instead of the

Meredith Oke: 00:37:27

information that's bringing in our HBO or

Meredith Oke: 00:37:29

whatever, we're switching to photons, which is in

Meredith Oke: 00:37:33

which our information. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So if I

Meredith Oke: 00:37:43

put one of these monitors in my house, how does

Meredith Oke: 00:37:45

it work? Do I put something outside that connects

Meredith Oke: 00:37:48

to it?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:49

Yeah. So there'll be a solar collector that would

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:52

have to be placed somewhere, obviously, where it

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:54

can collect sunlight and have access to sun at

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:37:59

different parts of the day. And then a fiber

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:02

optic cable would run similar to how you would

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:06

conduit to run fiber optics when you have the guy

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:09

come out and fix up your, you know, your home.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:12

Home network and. And then wherever you want your

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:15

monitor to be, that fiber optic will then connect

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:18

to this monitor through, you know, a regular

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:21

looking cable. You plug it in just like any other

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:24

monitor. And then throughout the daytime, you're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:28

just using sunlight. And then as the sun sets

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:32

and, you know, if you, if you need and want to,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:35

as many people do need to use their monitor

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:37

during the nighttime, we're still using LEDs, but

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:41

just filling in that spectrum so it's more of a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:44

sunlight, you know, broader spectrum of light. So

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:48

that you're still getting some of those healing

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:49

wavelengths, but, you know, during the day,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:52

you're saving energy, you're getting all the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:38:54

healing stuff. You know, the win, win.

Meredith Oke: 00:38:57

And then the. The lighting that you've put in

Meredith Oke: 00:38:59

there at night, you've got actually taken into

Meredith Oke: 00:39:01

account the biological impact of it.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:04

Right, right.

Meredith Oke: 00:39:07

Okay. That's really crazy. So what if you wanted

Meredith Oke: 00:39:10

to have, like, a lot of monitors, would you. Do

Meredith Oke: 00:39:13

you just set up like a cable?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:15

Yeah, so. So there are many sizes of solar

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:19

collectors that can, you know, concentrate enough

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:24

light to run to, you know, you could go from one

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:26

fiber optic cable up to probably 20. So depending

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:31

on. If you're an enterprise that wants to just

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:35

have one massive solar collector and hook it up

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:38

to a bunch of monitors and maybe some light

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:40

sources too, that can be task lights. That's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:43

possible, too. You can use it for task lighting,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:45

you can use it for ambient lighting. I mean,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:49

you've talked to some pretty amazing lighting

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:52

designers now who they all are aware of this need

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:39:56

for different types of lighting. And our monitor

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:40:00

is arguably another type that we just. We use to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:40:04

work. We need to work with. And it's not. It's

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:40:07

not a light bulb, but it's a light source going

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:40:11

into our eyes and helping us work and helping us

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:40:14

do our lives. So.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:16

Yeah, and right now, I mean, we, very few of us

Meredith Oke: 00:40:19

have a life where we don't need to be on the

Meredith Oke: 00:40:21

computer sometimes, or want to be. I mean, I love

Meredith Oke: 00:40:24

doing this. Here we are. But everything involved

Meredith Oke: 00:40:27

with the computer, I'm continuously mitigating

Meredith Oke: 00:40:31

its effects on my biology. So, like, right now, I

Meredith Oke: 00:40:34

don't have blue blockers on, but I have the iris

Meredith Oke: 00:40:38

filtering, you know, on one of the settings

Meredith Oke: 00:40:40

that's filtering out some of the harsher blue

Meredith Oke: 00:40:42

light. So, Peter, what you've created is a

Meredith Oke: 00:40:47

monitor that's. We don't need to hack it because

Meredith Oke: 00:40:50

it's actually. The light coming out is actually

Meredith Oke: 00:40:52

good for that.

Peter Veto: 00:40:52

Exactly. The mitigation is the right word.

Meredith Oke: 00:40:54

It's the we don't. The blue blockers and the

Meredith Oke: 00:40:57

filters and all that.

Peter Veto: 00:40:58

Yeah, we have so many products to mitigate. And

Peter Veto: 00:41:01

that just shows that there is a problem. Right.

Peter Veto: 00:41:04

That none of them truly work, because that's why

Peter Veto: 00:41:07

we have to keep using them. And still, it only

Peter Veto: 00:41:11

solves the problem to some people, partially

Peter Veto: 00:41:13

because digital eye strain itself can come from

Peter Veto: 00:41:17

so many causal pathways. So some people have

Peter Veto: 00:41:22

issues with the spectrum, some people have issues

Peter Veto: 00:41:24

with the flicker, and it's very hard to figure

Peter Veto: 00:41:27

out which one hurts you. And then there are all

Peter Veto: 00:41:30

the invisible physiological aspects there. And

Peter Veto: 00:41:33

then there are many visual aspects as well which

Peter Veto: 00:41:36

go beyond just mere color vision. And so all of

Peter Veto: 00:41:40

these together, you cannot mitigate for

Peter Veto: 00:41:42

everything. That's great because now we have a

Peter Veto: 00:41:46

huge choice of various surrogate products which

Peter Veto: 00:41:49

we try to mitigate and people try to choose

Peter Veto: 00:41:53

whichever suits them. But nobody can really

Peter Veto: 00:41:56

tackle the root cause because that's not fixed

Peter Veto: 00:41:59

until you actually change the light source. So if

Peter Veto: 00:42:03

you filter out blue light from anyway very choppy

Peter Veto: 00:42:06

and limited LED spectrum, then all that you have

Peter Veto: 00:42:09

left is an even narrower part of even just the

Peter Veto: 00:42:14

visible spectrum. Right. And that's why all the

Peter Veto: 00:42:16

colors turn orange, which is just a color issue.

Peter Veto: 00:42:19

With a better, broader spectrum light source,

Peter Veto: 00:42:22

even without any blue light, you could have much

Peter Veto: 00:42:24

better colors, which we do as well. For the night

Peter Veto: 00:42:27

mode, happy to go more into details, but just to

Peter Veto: 00:42:32

finish the previous thought, that cannot add back

Peter Veto: 00:42:36

to the spectrum which what is missing. And then

Peter Veto: 00:42:38

to add to the spectrum, let's say some infrared

Peter Veto: 00:42:41

light, many people use extra desktop lamps next

Peter Veto: 00:42:46

to the monitor. But again, that doesn't really

Peter Veto: 00:42:49

account for what the issues with the monitor,

Peter Veto: 00:42:52

with the slicker, with the other spectral

Peter Veto: 00:42:54

problems. And it doesn't even necessarily reach

Peter Veto: 00:42:57

those parts of the retina where it need to reach

Peter Veto: 00:43:00

because you are still looking at the monitor. So

Peter Veto: 00:43:02

the full VR is always doused in the light that

Peter Veto: 00:43:05

comes from the display and not from anywhere

Peter Veto: 00:43:07

else. And this is by the way, also an issue when,

Peter Veto: 00:43:10

when you have a properly ambient daylit room, the

Peter Veto: 00:43:15

vast majority of the receptor cells in the retina

Peter Veto: 00:43:20

will be still doused in the light from the

Peter Veto: 00:43:22

display and not from the room. Because the

Peter Veto: 00:43:24

display is designed in such a way that it doesn't

Peter Veto: 00:43:27

reflect ambient light. That's why you don't have

Peter Veto: 00:43:30

glare and reflection. So that's important for the

Peter Veto: 00:43:33

display. But since you are looking at around the

Peter Veto: 00:43:36

center of the display and it's kind of large, the

Peter Veto: 00:43:39

vast majority of the retina receives that light

Peter Veto: 00:43:42

and not the daylight which might be in your room

Peter Veto: 00:43:45

if you are lucky otherwise.

Meredith Oke: 00:43:49

Right. So even if you have the window open or you

Meredith Oke: 00:43:53

have a light box nearby supplementing the

Meredith Oke: 00:43:57

spectrum, if your eyes are focused on the screen,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:01

you're still mostly ingesting that.

Peter Veto: 00:44:04

Yes.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:05

And so it's also interesting what you were

Meredith Oke: 00:44:06

saying. There's multiple factors like flicker,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:09

which are, you know, these filters aren't

Meredith Oke: 00:44:12

accounting for. And I think that's interesting

Meredith Oke: 00:44:15

because I have personally noticed we get these

Meredith Oke: 00:44:19

headaches on and off. And I do all the things

Meredith Oke: 00:44:23

right, like I do all the things And I'm like,

Meredith Oke: 00:44:25

where. What are these headaches? So I went to see

Meredith Oke: 00:44:28

my chiropractor and I told her, like, I showed

Meredith Oke: 00:44:31

her where. Where it was like on each side at the

Meredith Oke: 00:44:34

base of my skull. And she's like, those are the

Meredith Oke: 00:44:36

muscles connected to eye stream. And are you

Meredith Oke: 00:44:42

spending a lot of time on your computer? And I'm

Meredith Oke: 00:44:44

like, yes, well, some days, yes, some days, no.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:46

But I do all the things. But what I'm hearing you

Meredith Oke: 00:44:49

say is that there are so many layers to it. Like

Meredith Oke: 00:44:52

there could. It could be the flicker. It could be

Meredith Oke: 00:44:54

that maybe I need to wear my reading glasses and

Meredith Oke: 00:44:57

I'm not.

Peter Veto: 00:44:59

Yes.

Meredith Oke: 00:44:59

What are your thoughts as an eye strain expert?

Peter Veto: 00:45:01

Well, certainly not an eye strain expert. Thank

Peter Veto: 00:45:04

you.

Meredith Oke: 00:45:04

Yeah.

Peter Veto: 00:45:05

And of course, I didn't want to say that it's not

Peter Veto: 00:45:08

better if you can have the window open or can

Peter Veto: 00:45:10

have some near infrared source nearby. And very

Peter Veto: 00:45:14

interesting tie to Scott Zimmerman's work, which

Peter Veto: 00:45:18

you have certainly presented here many times.

Peter Veto: 00:45:20

That also this Clara collects and channels near

Peter Veto: 00:45:24

infrared to the back of the eye. So obviously

Peter Veto: 00:45:27

some near inference will reach also the fovea.

Peter Veto: 00:45:30

But it's still different than if that is the

Peter Veto: 00:45:34

light source that you are looking at. Right.

Peter Veto: 00:45:37

Because. And especially the larger the monitor,

Peter Veto: 00:45:39

the more it will block out basically the rest of

Peter Veto: 00:45:42

your visual field in this spectral sense. Now,

Peter Veto: 00:45:47

near infrared is also not focused so precisely on

Peter Veto: 00:45:50

the retina, so there is definitely some scatter

Peter Veto: 00:45:52

and some mixing there. But again, this is

Peter Veto: 00:45:55

mitigation. Instead of having the right light in

Peter Veto: 00:45:58

the most impactful lighting application that we

Peter Veto: 00:46:01

have, because this plays out the only lighting

Peter Veto: 00:46:03

application where the intended use is to look

Peter Veto: 00:46:06

directly into the light source. And we do that

Peter Veto: 00:46:08

for several hours every day. So it is really a

Peter Veto: 00:46:12

concentrated and impactful application. And

Peter Veto: 00:46:15

that's why I don't think we should look so much

Peter Veto: 00:46:17

at even energy efficiency. Though obviously using

Peter Veto: 00:46:20

daylight also saves energy, but that should be

Peter Veto: 00:46:23

secondary because it's a little amount of light

Peter Veto: 00:46:25

but going to the most impactful places.

Meredith Oke: 00:46:30

Right. So, yes, for sure it's better to have the

Meredith Oke: 00:46:35

window open in the supplemental, but when you

Meredith Oke: 00:46:38

know. And that's a really good point. It's like

Meredith Oke: 00:46:39

screens were designed for us to stare directly

Meredith Oke: 00:46:42

into them, unlike light bulbs. And yet they were.

Meredith Oke: 00:46:46

They did not take the physiological effects of

Meredith Oke: 00:46:49

that into account at all. Like, not at all.

Peter Veto: 00:46:53

Not even as much as regular light bulbs. So even

Peter Veto: 00:46:56

regarding color rendering displays would never be

Peter Veto: 00:46:59

acceptable as a light source for general

Peter Veto: 00:47:01

lighting, because they have this narrow RGB

Peter Veto: 00:47:04

spectrum optimized for the color spaces that we

Peter Veto: 00:47:09

use in the online world, which is great. And the

Peter Veto: 00:47:11

eyes are very easy to fool in that regard. So we

Peter Veto: 00:47:14

can create a huge number of colors that way. And

Peter Veto: 00:47:17

perceptual, it works very well. And actually,

Peter Veto: 00:47:20

based on all the metrics that lighting uses this

Peter Veto: 00:47:23

way, a modern display with high resolution should

Peter Veto: 00:47:25

not be any different from reading a book. But

Peter Veto: 00:47:28

then why do we have all the digital eye strain?

Peter Veto: 00:47:30

Right. So that's the real issue that in the

Peter Veto: 00:47:33

lighting world, nobody really wants to look at

Peter Veto: 00:47:36

probably nowadays a little bit more. The trend is

Peter Veto: 00:47:40

definitely changing, but traditionally the

Peter Veto: 00:47:43

assumption was that all of this doesn't matter.

Peter Veto: 00:47:46

But then it, it, you know, it flies in the face

Peter Veto: 00:47:49

of the fact that so many people are struggling

Peter Veto: 00:47:51

with this place and not with reading the book.

Peter Veto: 00:47:53

The only difference is the light.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:47:57

Right.

Meredith Oke: 00:48:00

Liliana, what thoughts?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:48:02

No, I don't think I have anything to add. I mean,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:48:04

I, I'm. I think Peter said it beautifully.

Meredith Oke: 00:48:08

Okay, so is there a version of this where we

Meredith Oke: 00:48:11

could get it, where we could have this work on a

Meredith Oke: 00:48:15

television?

Peter Veto: 00:48:16

Absolutely. It's the same technology. Yes. TVs,

Peter Veto: 00:48:19

digital whiteboards, even VR headsets could work

Peter Veto: 00:48:22

the same way.

Meredith Oke: 00:48:23

I mean, this is really crazy because I think a

Meredith Oke: 00:48:26

foundational premise that people who listen to

Meredith Oke: 00:48:29

this podcast anyway have is that our screens are

Meredith Oke: 00:48:33

just. They're just bad for us. And all we can do

Meredith Oke: 00:48:36

is minimize our use and mitigate. And mitigate

Meredith Oke: 00:48:39

what's coming out of them and do our best to work

Meredith Oke: 00:48:42

around it. This is like a bit of a shift into the

Meredith Oke: 00:48:46

idea that there's a way to do it. I'm not like,

Meredith Oke: 00:48:49

advocating we should have more screen time in our

Meredith Oke: 00:48:52

lives, but we all are going to have some at this

Meredith Oke: 00:48:54

point. So this is really a shift to think about.

Meredith Oke: 00:48:58

Oh, it could actually be not bad for us.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:04

Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:49:05

Is that where you got to, Liliana?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:06

Absolutely. And even now, you know, just thinking

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:10

of so many, you know, elder care facilities,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:14

medical facilities, you know, children in schools

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:17

that don't have windows. I mean, there's so many

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:20

ways that, you know, people that don't have

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:25

access to. To sunlight to the extent that they

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:29

need it, and they either need to be in front of a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:32

screen for whatever amount of time, or the screen

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:36

could just, you know, be a tool to bring them the

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:39

sunlight that they need to a place that, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:43

know, that that's removed from the natural

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:45

environment. I mean, there are, you know, you can

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:48

go, you know, bunkers, you could go, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:51

but, like, it doesn't need to be that extreme. It

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:53

could just be an office space. Space Or a medical

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:55

facility where somebody, you know, they're.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:49:57

They're not mobile enough to go outside and get

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:00

the morning sun, but they can sit up in their

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:03

hospital bed and, you know, watch TV or whatever

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:05

and get that beautiful sunlight into their, into

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:09

their, into their eyes, their brains, their

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:11

skins, their cells.

Meredith Oke: 00:50:14

This is amazing. Okay, so, so where are things

Meredith Oke: 00:50:19

at? You know, like, can, can we order these right

Meredith Oke: 00:50:22

now? Can I go back? Like, can we go byline?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:25

Not yet, but we're working really hard to get

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:28

there. So we have some really amazing prototypes

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:33

and we are currently talking to some promising

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:38

manufacturing partners and currently fundraising,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:44

you know, to get that pilot build. I think we're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:46

gonna, we're gonna, you know, need a minimum

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:49

order of at least a few hundred, if not a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:51

thousand. That's our goal in 2026, is to be able

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:50:57

to build at least a few hundred and get them out

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:01

to people. You know, hopefully with any luck,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:04

we'll be able to do pre sales to let people know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:06

look, this is when they're going to be available.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:09

You know, you can get yours now and we'll deliver

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:12

it in six months or whatever that turns out to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:15

be. So. Yeah.

Meredith Oke: 00:51:16

Okay, so amazing. So how can we help? Can people

Meredith Oke: 00:51:20

get on your wait list?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:21

Absolutely, yeah. The, the most impactful way

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:25

that any listener can help is honestly just to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:28

sign up for our newsletter. Follow us on social

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:31

media, on Instagram, on YouTube, LinkedIn, if

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:36

that's your, if that's your social media of

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:38

choice and it's really spreading the word and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:42

getting people excited and talking about it is

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:45

the biggest help. You know, like I said, we're

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:48

talking to investors and, you know, raising

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:51

money, raising capital right now to be able to do

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:53

that initial production run. But the best way for

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:51:57

us to show investors that there's excitement and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:00

there's traction and that people want this is to

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:04

have engagement and followership and, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:07

people signing up and visiting the page and

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:10

watching the demo video and.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:13

Okay, well, we are all in. Okay, we have a

Meredith Oke: 00:52:16

mission. We have a mission, friends.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:18

Let's get.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:19

We would, we would all really love to have these,

Meredith Oke: 00:52:23

to have this become an option in the world, if

Meredith Oke: 00:52:26

not at some point the default option. So where.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:29

What is the website to sign up? Is it pixen?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:52:34

Yeah. Www.pixun.com co.

Meredith Oke: 00:52:40

Okay, so that's pixen P I X U N co and we'll put

Meredith Oke: 00:52:46

links in the show notes and we'll do shout outs

Meredith Oke: 00:52:49

and I mean, obviously people in this community

Meredith Oke: 00:52:52

are going to be really excited about this. For

Meredith Oke: 00:52:55

those of you who are members of QBC Pro, Peter

Meredith Oke: 00:52:58

and Liliana did a very deep dive into the

Meredith Oke: 00:53:00

science. I know some of you really, really like

Meredith Oke: 00:53:02

that. Keep it a little more high level on the

Meredith Oke: 00:53:03

podcast so we don't scare away the new people. We

Meredith Oke: 00:53:06

like you new people. Welcome. Come on in the

Meredith Oke: 00:53:09

water's farm in the circadian world. But yes, I

Meredith Oke: 00:53:13

want to make sure, because I know Peter, you

Meredith Oke: 00:53:15

have, like, have some very, a lot of deep science

Meredith Oke: 00:53:18

behind this. So if that is of interest to you,

Meredith Oke: 00:53:21

make sure you're in the, in the QVC Pro

Meredith Oke: 00:53:23

membership. That video is in there. Okay. Well,

Meredith Oke: 00:53:26

I, like, I'm so grateful that you two are doing

Meredith Oke: 00:53:29

this. Thank you, like, truly. You know, I've just

Meredith Oke: 00:53:34

been noticing lately, like, there, there, we all

Meredith Oke: 00:53:37

play a different role. Some of us are

Meredith Oke: 00:53:39

communicators, some of us are scientists. And I

Meredith Oke: 00:53:41

think the entrepreneurs and the people who start

Meredith Oke: 00:53:45

companies are a huge, huge piece of it because to

Meredith Oke: 00:53:48

be a successful company, you have to be. You have

Meredith Oke: 00:53:51

to share the message and communicate it out why

Meredith Oke: 00:53:55

you're doing what you're doing. So you're

Meredith Oke: 00:53:57

spreading the, spreading the knowledge. So thank

Meredith Oke: 00:54:01

you both. Any, any last thoughts you'd like to

Meredith Oke: 00:54:04

leave us with? Like, I just want to say. So I did

Meredith Oke: 00:54:08

really, I, I didn't really wrap my head around

Meredith Oke: 00:54:10

what you guys were doing until I went to the, to

Meredith Oke: 00:54:13

your website and you have a picture of the

Meredith Oke: 00:54:16

monitor and a picture of the, of the cable and an

Meredith Oke: 00:54:19

arrow that says sunlight in here to the cable.

Meredith Oke: 00:54:25

That is very clear. And that's when the penny

Meredith Oke: 00:54:28

dropped for me. I'm like, how? What?

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:31

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm glad. We had some

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:36

amazing interns who really helped us up our game

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:40

on the website and started us going on social

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:43

media. Like, that's, you know, that's not my

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:45

forte, but we're trying hard. So, yeah, I mean,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:50

the education piece is huge. Our mission, you

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:54

know, alongside and in parallel to building a

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:54:59

product that we believe in, that we, you know,

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:01

that we have a mission and a passion behind is

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:04

really education. I mean, we really have to be

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:08

the storytellers and, you know, be the educators

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:11

to raise awareness about the impact that these

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:16

devices that we all have to interact with are

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:19

having on us. So, yeah, I mean, if for no other

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:25

reason than to just learn a little something here

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:30

and there. Join us on the ride. We'll try to keep

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:36

putting blogs out and educational content. I

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:39

mean, that's part of it too. We just want to give

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:41

people tools to help them heal and help them be

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:45

able to survive in the digital world more in a.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:55:49

In a healthier way.

Meredith Oke: 00:55:51

Yes. And everybody, like, this is. This is it.

Meredith Oke: 00:55:55

Everyone's like, oh, what's going to happen in

Meredith Oke: 00:55:57

the future? And we have a tech dystopia, or we

Meredith Oke: 00:56:00

have a chronic illness epidemic, or this or that.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:02

It's like, these are the moments. Like right now,

Meredith Oke: 00:56:05

going to sign up for your newsletter to support a

Meredith Oke: 00:56:08

company that could potentially, like, transform

Meredith Oke: 00:56:12

the paradigm of screens in our lives. Like, we

Meredith Oke: 00:56:15

all have agency here. We can all participate.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:18

This is so fun and cool.

Peter Veto: 00:56:21

Yes. And thank you so, so much, Meredith, for all

Peter Veto: 00:56:23

your support. And you speak about these issues so

Peter Veto: 00:56:27

eloquently, which we are just trying to learn to

Peter Veto: 00:56:31

do, getting out of the academic silos. And so

Peter Veto: 00:56:34

it's a very different convolocation style. And

Peter Veto: 00:56:36

also here in this little conversation, you

Peter Veto: 00:56:39

summarized what we were saying, especially what I

Peter Veto: 00:56:41

was saying, so much better than we do. So there's

Peter Veto: 00:56:44

a lot to learn for us. But till then, thank you

Peter Veto: 00:56:48

so much for what the great work.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:56:51

Oh, thanks, Peter.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:52

Thank you both. Thank you both for being here.

Meredith Oke: 00:56:54

And truly, yes, let's stay in touch. And anything

Meredith Oke: 00:56:58

we can do to support the evolution of this

Meredith Oke: 00:57:03

company, we're here. We're here for it.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:57:06

Thank you so much, Meredith. I'm really glad

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:57:08

we'll have you back soon. All right, sounds great.

Peter Veto: 00:57:11

Thank you.

Lilliana Lettieri: 00:57:12

Take care.

Meredith Oke: 00:57:14

This has been the Quantum Biology Collective

Meredith Oke: 00:57:17

podcast. To find a practitioner who practices

Meredith Oke: 00:57:20

from this point of view, visit our

Meredith Oke: 00:57:22

directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are

Meredith Oke: 00:57:27

a practitioner, definitely take a look at the

Meredith Oke: 00:57:30

Applied Quantum Biology certification, a six week

Meredith Oke: 00:57:34

study of the science of the new human health

Meredith Oke: 00:57:36

professional paradigm and its practical

Meredith Oke: 00:57:39

application with your patients and clients. We

Meredith Oke: 00:57:42

also love to feature graduates of the program on

Meredith Oke: 00:57:45

this very podcast. Until next time, the QVC.